Roger Federer and Modern Technique

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by spacediver

and what exactly does "don't hit - push it out" mean? I watched that video, and it looks like a lot of handwaving semantics to me. Much better to have precise descriptions that clearly dilineate and disambiguate no?

Similar to find the ball, track the ball, massage the ball, focus on the hands, etc - nothing.

Just make you feel you are learning some new secrets. Like those magnetic bracelets. You are told that wearing them make you healthier, wiser, richer etc - and if you wear them, you may end up thinking that is true. It may even help you by making you feel good. Whatever.

[sureshs]

Tested the link if it is embedded here in a post - till the .com level. Works.

[JohnYandell]

And back to tennis...on the forehand question Guy you nailed it.

On the site I make a fundamental distinction between understanding what the pros actually do and applying it. It's a complex process of indentifying the elements and then determining who should use which when. But fundamentally if we don't do the painstaking research we end up with claims and teaching methodologies that make misleading, incomplete or false statements.

So you are correct about the preparation and extension as the core with Roger that applies across the levels. The reason I like his grip structure so much is that it is ideal for the ball heights most club players face--and swinging through the ball with conservative grips requires far less hand and arm rotation, open stance, and radical torso rotation in executing basic drives or even the variations.

Having said that, you now experiment with open stance when the ball is high, heavy and fast. You do the same with increased wiper.
Or using the wiper more when the ball is low and/or short or when you want to hit shorter angles and dip it on a pass.

I plan to eventually put together another giant overview on this--but I am still deep in the process of filming and analyzing fundamental components--and now working with Brian to use 3D to take that up even more levels. There's even more to come--whole new ways of looking at the meaning of strokes.

Exciting and fun work.

[JohnYandell]

Suresh, I may post the shot of me drinking martinis with DRod in Indian Wells--people at the table said it is the happiest I have ever looked in a photo...

[pushing_wins]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Similar to find the ball, track the ball, massage the ball, focus on the hands, etc - nothing.

Just make you feel you are learning some new secrets. Like those magnetic bracelets. You are told that wearing them make you healthier, wiser, richer etc - and if you wear them, you may end up thinking that is true. It may even help you by making you feel good. Whatever.

i beg to differ

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by JohnYandell

Suresh, I may post the shot of me drinking martinis with DRod in Indian Wells--people at the table said it is the happiest I have ever looked in a photo...

Why wait? Just post it.

[pushing_wins]

Originally Posted by JohnYandell

And back to tennis...on the forehand question Guy you nailed it.

On the site I make a fundamental distinction between understanding what the pros actually do and applying it. It's a complex process of indentifying the elements and then determining who should use which when. But fundamentally if we don't do the painstaking research we end up with claims and teaching methodologies that make misleading, incomplete or false statements.

So you are correct about the preparation and extension as the core with Roger that applies across the levels. The reason I like his grip structure so much is that it is ideal for the ball heights most club players face--and swinging through the ball with conservative grips requires far less hand and arm rotation, open stance, and radical torso rotation in executing basic drives or even the variations.

Having said that, you now experiment with open stance when the ball is high, heavy and fast. You do the same with increased wiper.
Or using the wiper more when the ball is low and/or short or when you want to hit shorter angles and dip it on a pass.

I plan to eventually put together another giant overview on this--but I am still deep in the process of filming and analyzing fundamental components--and now working with Brian to use 3D to take that up even more levels. There's even more to come--whole new ways of looking at the meaning of strokes.

Exciting and fun work.

its been 7 years of filming.

the first generation of SW grips players have retired.


what exactly are the fundamentals?

please dont tell me to sign up.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by pushing_wins

i beg to differ

Are you saying push it out is used to not make players slap at the ball? Again, it is kind of obvious. If you are doing the right preparation, hit, and finish, you won't slap at the ball. And the higher the level, the more fluid the stroke. It is not something new, at least to me, except maybe at a very low level, say 2.5. I don't see any juniors slapping at the ball, so who told them "push it out"?

[JohnYandell]

That's not a one post answer. But if you go back and read what I wrote about the Federer clip in this thread you will get a good idea on the forehand.

Suresh, got dig the photo out of my cell phone but I see there is interest so I shall comply.

[pushing_wins]

Originally Posted by JohnYandell

That's not a one post answer. But if you go back and read what I wrote about the Federer clip in this thread you will get a good idea on the forehand.

come on john. give us some wisdom.

the commonalities. the core fundamentals.

i remember reading your common forehand takeback commontalties back when guga an hewitt were dominating. again, there were no conclusions.

[pushing_wins]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Are you saying push it out is used to not make players slap at the ball? Again, it is kind of obvious. If you are doing the right preparation, hit, and finish, you won't slap at the ball. And the higher the level, the more fluid the stroke. It is not something new, at least to me, except maybe at a very low level, say 2.5. I don't see any juniors slapping at the ball, so who told them "push it out"?

most 4.5 5.0 tourney level players in my area still "hit" the ball

the more power they want to generate the more they try to "hit"

i think even balla, at times, tends to swipe across the ball a little more than he intends to.

[pushing_wins]

Originally Posted by JohnYandell

The problem with pushing out a lot of free information on youTube is that you are assigning a value to your work. Zero.

No matter what it cost you to film, travel, edit, analyze, present, post etc, you are creating a wide expectation that since it is free, it should be free and why pay ever for what should be free?

We release a few clips and articles here and there. But basically I believe that what we have done is at a much higher level--in terms of the filming technology, the depth of multiple film archives, and the level of analysis from over 50 of the best people in tennis.

I believe there is a value there and so do our paid subcribers. So do the major national coaching organizations around the world that we have relationships with.

It's not about page views or page rank. It's about the value of a product in the mind of the user.

good points

[pushing_wins]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Are you saying push it out is used to not make players slap at the ball? Again, it is kind of obvious. If you are doing the right preparation, hit, and finish, you won't slap at the ball. And the higher the level, the more fluid the stroke. It is not something new, at least to me, except maybe at a very low level, say 2.5. I don't see any juniors slapping at the ball, so who told them "push it out"?

it difficult to feel the proper release if u are using the wrong grip.

thats the gist of my argument with spacediver

[sureshs]

Don't use the wrong grip

[pushing_wins]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Don't use the wrong grip

think about it

why are there so many pushers?

cause the establishment cant seem to teach proper stroke mechanics.

[JohnYandell]

PW,

Seriously it's all in this thread. Skip the fighting and just read the explanations and look at the clip.

[JohnYandell]

By popular request, or at least request of Suresh, DRod having a Martini at Sullivan's Steak House near Indian Wells with yours truly and the Tennisplayer team.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/public/tw/drod/

[kiteboard]

Damn, that's a good pic of you John! Wow! Drinking Mojitos next to Danielle, I'd look happy too.... Too many guys sniffing around her. Her boyfriend is an actor, not well known, but I think she and I would make a good couple. Dotzenrod, if you are listening, use your legs more on your shots, and put the weight into the shots more, aggressively. More dynamic attack.

[pushing_wins]

Originally Posted by JohnYandell

PW,

Seriously it's all in this thread. Skip the fighting and just read the explanations and look at the clip.

as the saying goes, fool me once shame on you ............