The Donald

[Max G.]

Originally Posted by jakemcclain32

But I'm just saying that the guy has faced guys like Nadal and Hewitt, and made tons of errors. He's faced guys like Blake and lost because of errors.

Those are all pretty much better than him; no surprise that when he loses, he loses the same way.

When he's been on his horrible losing streaks like he's been on in these qualifiers and wild cards, he makes these same mistakes. I'm not saying anyone on here is BETTER than Donald Young, because that's a numbnuts idea in itself. I'm just saying that, no matter who he plays, he plays the same way, makes a ton of errors, double faults a ton, and gets into his own head.

So, have you ever seen him win a match easily?

I'm asking a serious question. Because he DOES win matches. You just don't see how he looks when he's playing someone worse than him, because Donald Young is about as bad of a player as you can be while still making it to the big tournaments sometimes (i.e. bottom of the top 100).

Look at his match record on atptennis.com. At the challenger level, he's actually a quite consistent player. http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/P...oung.aspx?t=pa . He gets a lot of wins in challenger and qualifying tournaments, just not at the ATP level.

Just a few weeks ago, Donald Young beat Greg Jones of Australia 6-1 6-0. Greg Jones is ranked 225 in the world. Are you saying that you can do better against Donald Young than the 225-ranked player in the world?

Now if he curbed the mistakes, every single one of us here would be lucky to get a point. That's just what I'm trying to say. I once got whacked in a tournament 1 and 1 by a guy WAY WAY past my level(I was 18 at the time), and the reason it was 1 and 1 instead of a double bagel because, in those two games he lost combined, he had 4 double faults and four errors.

Donald Young's problem, flat out, is his head more than anything else. He's still an elite player compared to the world, but he makes a LOT of mistakes(and the majority are unforced), and that's my point. What's keeping him from making mistakes against a lesser player?

The fact that against a lesser player, he doesn't need to go for as much to hit winners. His regular rally shot - which is a puffball at the top-100 level - would suddenly be a blistering heavy ball when facing someone ranked a few hundred spots lower.

Against top-100 players, he can't really do anything in a rally - not enough pace consistently. But those same shots that look like neutral or defensive shots against top 100 players are actually aggressive and powerful when facing someone ranked 400.

[jakemcclain32]

Max, you make great points.

1. I have a great link that I posted a couple days ago. Guy about his same level, and Donald Young made the same mistakes of the upper echelon I mentioned.

2. The 6-1 6-0 win? Congrats to him. I'd LOVE to watch that match and see if he limited the mistakes. I bet he did.

That's the only point I'm making. Ok, so our shots wouldn't be as dangerous to him, so those mistakes would be limited. What about his serve? He double faults a ton.

Hey man, I respect your opinion and everyone else's opinion here. Very smart tennis minds here. I'm just stating something I know about that guy right now. I just said that his mistakes alone could lose a couple of games, not that any of us would actually even get a point off of him on our volition.

[Max G.]

Originally Posted by jakemcclain32

That's the only point I'm making. Ok, so our shots wouldn't be as dangerous to him, so those mistakes would be limited. What about his serve? He double faults a ton.

Against someone who he'd never lose a rally to, he could just spin his serve in. No need to go for anything big on it - thus, fewer double faults.

Against people close to his level, he has to go for more on his first ball, thus leading to more errors.

...besides, he doesn't even double fault *that* much, especially not enough to give amateurs any sort of edge. In his first round at Wimbledon which he lost to Bogdanovic, he had 2 double faults per set. (3,2,2,1, specifically). At the Australian open this year, he had 3 double faults in 3 sets. In the Australian Open qualifying matches, he played 3 matches, each of which he won in straight sets and had 3, 1, and 3 doublefaults in those matches, respectively.

[jakemcclain32]

Eh, it's a nice debate to have. I'd like to see Donald Young succeed so that there's not even a thought to debate this.

[bjk]

Just a few weeks ago, Donald Young beat Greg Jones of Australia 6-1 6-0. Greg Jones is ranked 225 in the world. Are you saying that you can do better against Donald Young than the 225-ranked player in the world?

Sort of a rhetorical question, isn't it? Don't let the tv fool you, the pace is totally different at ground level.

Let's not be so hard on the Donald. Give him another two inches and he would be a beast. I watched him practice at the Legg Mason and his ball had a nice solid thwack that comes from having a really pure stroke. There's nothing wrong with any part of his game, and his volleying is up in the top 1% of pros, I would say. He just doesn't have the size or the big weapon. And he's not 6', I'm pretty sure of that.

[Rhino]

I used to find Donald Young's career kind of entertaining in a way (Ok this loss to Bogdanovic is still quite funny), but now I am actually beginning to feel a bit sorry for the poor guy.

These losses year-in year-out have got to hurt.

However, as far as Alex B is concerned, good on him, I hope he wins the event.

[SoBad]

Kinda funny and sad how the Donald owns the Muzza yet gets owned by the Bogdan. He's gotta fire the Doyomama coach and pull himself together already.

[Max G.]

Originally Posted by Rhino

These losses year-in year-out have got to hurt.

It's not like he's losing every match he plays.

He actually consistently wins matches. Despite the occasional first-round-loss at a challenger, on an average week he wins more matches than he loses. If you look at http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/P...oung.aspx?t=pa and include challengers and qualies, his record is like 35-16. It's just that he plays mostly on the challenger level, and there he's near the upper echelon of challenger players (so he gets wins) but he's near the lower echelon of ATP-tour-level players, so when we see him at ATP-level events he mostly loses. His record at the ATP level for this year is 6-9, which means that at below-ATP-level events his record is, I believe 29-7.

He's settled in to his career. It looks like he'll be one of those guys that permanently stays in the just-below-100 range, with occasional forays into the top 100 when he gets a few good wins. It's not a glamorous career by any means, but it's enough to make a living.

I don't feel sorry for him. I'm not jealous of him either, but he should do okay. He's not going to live up to his hype as a great player by any means, but it's not like I feel sorry for the plenty of other players that have careers like that. Do you also feel sorry for Michael Russell, or George Bastl, or the many guys at the level of Russell and Bastl who *don't* have that one extra big moment.

[SoBad]

Originally Posted by Max G.

It's not like he's losing every match he plays.

He actually consistently wins matches. Despite the occasional first-round-loss at a challenger, on an average week he wins more matches than he loses. If you look at http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/P...oung.aspx?t=pa and include challengers and qualies, his record is like 35-16. It's just that he plays mostly on the challenger level, and there he's near the upper echelon of challenger players (so he gets wins) but he's near the lower echelon of ATP-tour-level players, so when we see him at ATP-level events he mostly loses. His record at the ATP level for this year is 6-9, which means that at below-ATP-level events his record is, I believe 29-7.

He's settled in to his career. It looks like he'll be one of those guys that permanently stays in the just-below-100 range, with occasional forays into the top 100 when he gets a few good wins. It's not a glamorous career by any means, but it's enough to make a living.

I don't feel sorry for him. I'm not jealous of him either, but he should do okay. He's not going to live up to his hype as a great player by any means, but it's not like I feel sorry for the plenty of other players that have careers like that. Do you also feel sorry for Michael Russell, or George Bastl, or the many guys at the level of Russell and Bastl who *don't* have that one extra big moment.

Winning a Jr slam, especially Wimbledon, is a big deal and historically a good predictor of professional success. I cannot believe you are bringing Michael Russell and George Bastl into The Donald discussion. Is it the hat thing?

[jakemcclain32]

I wouldn't even compare him with Michael Russell. Young has a lot more talent than Russell does.

Russell's that guy who's had a modicum of success, but he'll be telling his grandkids that he once had a 4-2 lead on the #1 guy in a major before blowing it.

[Max G.]

Well, Young had much more promise than those two, but looks to have ended up in a similar place. Career-high 60 for Russell - Young's high is somewhere in the 70s, if I remember correctly. Good record in challengers, occasional wins in the big leagues. Russell had his one moment of glory.

Bastl also topped out in the 70s, had a few years in the roughly 100s. Young is better than that I think.

Paul Goldstein is another guy of that similar level. Lots of success in challengers, mostly losses in the main draw.

I wasn't thinking of hats at all. I was thinking of players who topped out with rankings just above 100. At that level, you're winning lots of challengers but not winning many main draw matches.

[Bhagi Katbamna]

Originally Posted by Bilbo

He's one of the top 200 professional tennis players... IN THE WORLD. Most of us on here couldn't get 3 games off the #20 junior player in our country.

Donald Young would bagel all of us without breaking a sweat.

completely agree. He could beat all of us playing with his right hand. Unfortunately for Young, he can't make a living playing against us.

Also, Demetrius Walker didn't grow taller than 6'3" but Donald is the average height of a tennis pro.

[Emet74]

Originally Posted by SoBad

Winning a Jr slam, especially Wimbledon, is a big deal and historically a good predictor of professional success.

Not as much as you'd think. Here's a list of past winners: some familiar names, but pretty amazing how many I don't recognize at all . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ampions#Junior

[timeisonmyside]

Originally Posted by Max G.

It's not like he's losing every match he plays.

He actually consistently wins matches. Despite the occasional first-round-loss at a challenger, on an average week he wins more matches than he loses. If you look at http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/P...oung.aspx?t=pa and include challengers and qualies, his record is like 35-16. It's just that he plays mostly on the challenger level, and there he's near the upper echelon of challenger players (so he gets wins) but he's near the lower echelon of ATP-tour-level players, so when we see him at ATP-level events he mostly loses. His record at the ATP level for this year is 6-9, which means that at below-ATP-level events his record is, I believe 29-7.

He's settled in to his career. It looks like he'll be one of those guys that permanently stays in the just-below-100 range, with occasional forays into the top 100 when he gets a few good wins. It's not a glamorous career by any means, but it's enough to make a living.

I don't feel sorry for him. I'm not jealous of him either, but he should do okay. He's not going to live up to his hype as a great player by any means, but it's not like I feel sorry for the plenty of other players that have careers like that. Do you also feel sorry for Michael Russell, or George Bastl, or the many guys at the level of Russell and Bastl who *don't* have that one extra big moment.

Well Bastl did have that one extra big moment at the Big W in 2002.

[Dgpsx7]

Originally Posted by jakemcclain32

Watch this shootout third set. Pretty bad tennis from both sides, but this REALLY sums up Donald Young's problems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDyUzhCB6mg

This video is more painful to watch than rush hour 3

[Rhino]

Originally Posted by Max G.

Do you also feel sorry for Michael Russell, or George Bastl, or the many guys at the level of Russell and Bastl who *don't* have that one extra big moment.

It's just that he was primed to be the great new American tennis player. The future of American tennis. I'm sure he and his parents believed it too. Spending the rest of his career playing challengers with the odd tour level match must feel like a big disappointment. I don't think Michael Russell had these expectations. He wasn't busy winning junior slams, etc and getting big time sponsorship in his teens.

Meanwhile Alex Bogdanovic (GBR) d. (q)David Martin (USA) 6-1 6-2

[Rob_C]

Originally Posted by atatu

The similarities between DY and Demetrius Walker are scary:

http://www.ballinisahabit.net/2010/0...to-sports.html

I dont really see any similarities at all. DY's been a fairly successful pro. Yeah he could/should be doing better, but he's had his moments.

Like others have said, he's been fairly successful at the Challenger level, and this yr he's been getting wins at the tour level.

He's come thru qualies in a few tour level events, including a few Slams, and he's been getting wins consistently this year at the tour level.

That guy, whoever he is, hasnt done anything at all in basketball.

To the other guy who thinks he could get 2-3 games off DY, just goes to show you have no clue what you're talking about.

As for the issue of the WC into Aptos, that was just b/c he didn't enter by the deadline. You should have noticed he was the #2 seed on the draw. Also, he won Aptos back in '07, and got to the finals last yr, so it's not like he cant compete. Bad day at the office, for whatever reason.

[SoBad]

Originally Posted by Emet74

Not as much as you'd think. Here's a list of past winners: some familiar names, but pretty amazing how many I don't recognize at all . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ampions#Junior

Yes, because it is just a predictor, not a guarantee (which is impossible in sports) of any kind. In fact, it is probably fair to say that early/jr success is the best available predictor of future/pro success. I just don't think it's quite fair to compare an admittedly unstable pro performance of a recent Jr. slam titlist to those of a couple of near retired clown journeymen.

[jakemcclain32]

Hey Rob, AGAIN you do not read what I said.

I said, and it can be my opinion as much as I want it to be, that Donald Young's mistakes would cost him 2-3 games against most anyone. I did not say any of us could beat him, and I did not say it would be any of our spectacular shots that would kick his ***. If you go by talent, and his abilities, he murders us. Be lucky to get a point from the guy.

But he gets in his own head, and that is all I was saying.

It's obvious some people don't read into the whole picture. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was the point that was made.

[Serveand...]

Originally Posted by Bhagi Katbamna

completely agree. He could beat all of us playing with his right hand. Unfortunately for Young, he can't make a living playing against us.

Also, Demetrius Walker didn't grow taller than 6'3" but Donald is the average height of a tennis pro.

DY is about 5'9, I saw him standing next to Robredo whos 5'11 and DY was a good 2" shorter, and at 160lbs hes a lightweight.