Southern Sectionals

[tennis_tater]

Originally Posted by Tennis Phanatic

I think it is tough to compare teams from different states, since there is no common reference point and in most cases you don't know players from other states, but it is still fun to do. Based on looking at the 4.0 teams online, I would say the top 4.0 teams at sectionals will be Tennessee, Georgia and Alabama, with Tennessee being the favorite to win it all.

Because of all of the bantering that went back and forth on this forum in the 4.0 Nationals thread about the self-rating cheating and DQ's between the Alabama and Kentucky teams that played in the 4.0 finals last year, and Bear's posts about the Kentucky league coordinator turning a blind eye to Kentucky's "self-rating" of former college players, I just took a quick 10 minute look into Kentucky's team and found that probably 1/2 have played 4.0/4.5 for years, 3-4 of the players were 4.5's in the early 2000's and then appear to have been able to re-rate 2 years ago before the rule change (3 of these guys were 4.5's and were brave enough to play up in a 5.0 league at some point), 1 guy may be an ex-Division 3 college player (may be different guy, but college player found has same name and school isn't too far from home town listed for league player), and another player may be sandbagging (self-rated as 4.0, but won 2 local league matches against 4.0's, but then lost when paired with another 4.0 6-0, 6-0 to two 3.5 players from the worst team in the their league...but then goes to state and wins all of his singles matches easy....sandbagger????). Maybe I'm off base, especially without looking at any other teams, or really having any personal knowledge about the Ky. team or their players, but Kentucky appears to look pretty good on paper as well.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by tennis_tater

Because of all of the bantering that went back and forth on this forum in the 4.0 Nationals thread about the self-rating cheating and DQ's between the Alabama and Kentucky teams that played in the 4.0 finals last year, and Bear's posts about the Kentucky league coordinator turning a blind eye to Kentucky's "self-rating" of former college players, I just took a quick 10 minute look into Kentucky's team and found that probably 1/2 have played 4.0/4.5 for years, 3-4 of the players were 4.5's in the early 2000's and then appear to have been able to re-rate 2 years ago before the rule change (3 of these guys were 4.5's and were brave enough to play up in a 5.0 league at some point), 1 guy may be an ex-Division 3 college player (may be different guy, but college player found has same name and school isn't too far from home town listed for league player), and another player may be sandbagging (self-rated as 4.0, but won 2 local league matches against 4.0's, but then lost when paired with another 4.0 6-0, 6-0 to two 3.5 players from the worst team in the their league...but then goes to state and wins all of his singles matches easy....sandbagger????). Maybe I'm off base, especially without looking at any other teams, or really having any personal knowledge about the Ky. team or their players, but Kentucky appears to look pretty good on paper as well.

Let me guess, is the TN team from Chattanooga?

[tennis_tater]

Originally Posted by andfor

Let me guess, is the TN team from Chattanooga?

Looks like the TN team is from Memphis.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by tennis_tater

Looks like the TN team is from Memphis.

Suprised you see that team as one of the favorites. However I am pulling for them!

[tennis_tater]

Originally Posted by andfor

Suprised you see that team as one of the favorites. However I am pulling for them!

I didn't label Memphis as one of the favorites; believe one of the other posters did. Without really looking at all the teams in detail, looks like Alabama and Kentucky will be really strong again this year.

[JuliusWinto]

We lost one match as a team all season, 4-1 to Memphis. They are really tough, even though I managed to lose 12-10 in a tiebreak to one of their NAIA players. They have an even better singles player that they pulled out for a match against another team that had only played two matches in the regular season before he played in the state final. I think their team knows how to work the system better than anyone else. Look out.

[tennis_tater]

Originally Posted by JuliusWinto

We lost one match as a team all season, 4-1 to Memphis. They are really tough, even though I managed to lose 12-10 in a tiebreak to one of their NAIA players. They have an even better singles player that they pulled out for a match against another team that had only played two matches in the regular season before he played in the state final. I think their team knows how to work the system better than anyone else. Look out.

Looks like the player they played only twice and pulled out for the finals is also the captain of the Arkansas 4.0 team that will be playing at Sectionals as well...since he is the captain of the Arkansas team, and as it appears they have a smaller team, I would think this player would "declare" and play for the Arkansas team and not the Memphis team.

[JuliusWinto]

Wow, that's crazy that he is on two teams going to sectionals. Never heard of that before. That's not the guy I meant, though. I meant John D. F. They pulled him out to play in the final match of our group, instead of the state final. He beat a really good player in a tiebreak that I lost to.

[Tennis Phanatic]

Originally Posted by tennis_tater

Because of all of the bantering that went back and forth on this forum in the 4.0 Nationals thread about the self-rating cheating and DQ's between the Alabama and Kentucky teams that played in the 4.0 finals last year, and Bear's posts about the Kentucky league coordinator turning a blind eye to Kentucky's "self-rating" of former college players, I just took a quick 10 minute look into Kentucky's team and found that probably 1/2 have played 4.0/4.5 for years, 3-4 of the players were 4.5's in the early 2000's and then appear to have been able to re-rate 2 years ago before the rule change (3 of these guys were 4.5's and were brave enough to play up in a 5.0 league at some point), 1 guy may be an ex-Division 3 college player (may be different guy, but college player found has same name and school isn't too far from home town listed for league player), and another player may be sandbagging (self-rated as 4.0, but won 2 local league matches against 4.0's, but then lost when paired with another 4.0 6-0, 6-0 to two 3.5 players from the worst team in the their league...but then goes to state and wins all of his singles matches easy....sandbagger????). Maybe I'm off base, especially without looking at any other teams, or really having any personal knowledge about the Ky. team or their players, but Kentucky appears to look pretty good on paper as well.

In my opinion this is what is ruining USTA league tennis, when USTA league officials look the other way instead of doing the right thing and at least trying to end obvious cases of sandbagging.

The 4.0 TN team is a perfect example of a team that pushes the rules as far as possible and no one does anything about it. They have players from three states (Tennessee, Arkansas and Kentucky) on the team, which should not be allowed, although it is not against the rules. This team already had one sandbagger (Stepehn Juel) get DQ'd, even though he did his best to stay down by retiring several matches he was winning. They also have another self-rated player (Michael Garner) who has only played 3 matches. You don't have to be a genius to figure out he is sandbagging and will probably destroy everyone at sectionals. This is a perfect example when USTA should step in and not allow this player to play at sectionals.

[Tennis Phanatic]

To continue my thoughts from my previous post, the 4.0 KY and TN teams will probably destroy most of the teams at sectionals because they know how to work the system and USTA officials don't do anything about it. I realize not everyone who plays USTA league tennis cares about advancing as far as possible, but most players do want to play competitive matches. It is no fun playing a match when you know you have no chance of winning. Over the past few years I have known personally and heard second-hand dozens of players who no longer play USTA league tennis because they are tired of the sandbagging that goes on with USTA continuing to do nothing about it. I think the problem will only get worse in the future as more and more players realize you can have fun playing tennis outside of USTA leagues.

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by JuliusWinto

Wow, that's crazy that he is on two teams going to sectionals. Never heard of that before. That's not the guy I meant, though. I meant John D. F. They pulled him out to play in the final match of our group, instead of the state final. He beat a really good player in a tiebreak that I lost to.

That's actually not uncommon at all in Middle States. A lot of people play in NJ, PA, and DE, especially the stronger players that get recruited to cross districts. We just had PA districts this past weekend. The team that won did so on the backs of their two singles players who won 5 of 6 matches. Both those singles players as well as the #1 doubles pair on that team all play for a DE team that is first in their league and headed for DE districts as one of the favorites. One of the other DE teams in districts has 4 people shared with a team that has made districts in NJ. Neither of these playoffs has happened, but in this case, you could also end up with 4 players qualified for sectionals with 2 different teams.

A couple years ago, there was a guy who played in DE and NJ in 3.5 who played in districts in both NJ and DE where both teams won, declared for DE at sectionals, won the only court against his NJ team that won sectionals, and then re-joined the NJ guys at nationals.

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by Tennis Phanatic

In my opinion this is what is ruining USTA league tennis, when USTA league officials look the other way instead of doing the right thing and at least trying to end obvious cases of sandbagging.

The 4.0 TN team is a perfect example of a team that pushes the rules as far as possible and no one does anything about it. They have players from three states (Tennessee, Arkansas and Kentucky) on the team, which should not be allowed, although it is not against the rules. This team already had one sandbagger (Stepehn Juel) get DQ'd, even though he did his best to stay down by retiring several matches he was winning. They also have another self-rated player (Michael Garner) who has only played 3 matches. You don't have to be a genius to figure out he is sandbagging and will probably destroy everyone at sectionals. This is a perfect example when USTA should step in and not allow this player to play at sectionals.

Crossing over and playing on multiple teams in different states is not a problem IMO. People do it all the time around here, and I have played in both NJ and PA for several years. If it helps people enable sandbagging, then the sandbagging is the problem, not playing on multiple teams.

Also, retiring when you are winning is pointless. The computer looks at games won in the dynamic calculation, so retiring up 6-1 5-0 or something is just like winning 6-1 5-0 to the computer. It just cost your team a court in a potential tiebreaker situation if you have any competition in the league.

[goober]

Originally Posted by J_R_B

Also, retiring when you are winning is pointless. The computer looks at games won in the dynamic calculation, so retiring up 6-1 5-0 or something is just like winning 6-1 5-0 to the computer. It just cost your team a court in a potential tiebreaker situation if you have any competition in the league.

Can you get strikes against you for retired games?

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by goober

Can you get strikes against you for retired games?

If you look up this guy's record, it sure seems that way. I don't see why you wouldn't.

[JuliusWinto]

Anybody here playing in sectionals?

[tennis_tater]

Originally Posted by JuliusWinto

Anybody here playing in sectionals?

I should be there.

[rainman007]

Originally Posted by tennis_tater

(self-rated as 4.0, but won 2 local league matches against 4.0's, but then lost when paired with another 4.0 6-0, 6-0 to two 3.5 players from the worst team in the their league...but then goes to state and wins all of his singles matches easy....sandbagger????). Maybe I'm off base, especially without looking at any other teams, or really having any personal knowledge about the Ky. team or their players, but Kentucky appears to look pretty good on paper as well.

he wasnt to bright with it then cause 0 and 0 matches dont count

[rainman007]

So by everyones analysis who is the biggest cheater?

if kentucky or tennessee gets beat at sectional and whoever is doing the cryings state wins what does that say about your team?? if they do all that you accuse them of and still get hammered lol... (by the way no i'm not playing at southern)


You should count the number of titles over the last 10 years for southern and see which state is the biggest dynasty cheater..

Also of the southern sectional winner you should see how many teams beat them at nationals and see who was the biggest cheater overall


The usta cant really do much about sandbaggers they put a system in place and allow peoples character to shine.. They could count every single match you play for the year though adult singles mixed combo tournaments etc... to get a more accurate rating..

The usta could implement a rule that no self rated player can play higher than the local league but they may or may not lose money doing that

as far as the sanbagging though its left up to people and thats why its failing not the system..

[tennis_tater]

Originally Posted by rainman007

So by everyones analysis who is the biggest cheater?

if kentucky or tennessee gets beat at sectional and whoever is doing the cryings state wins what does that say about your team?? if they do all that you accuse them of and still get hammered lol... (by the way no i'm not playing at southern)


You should count the number of titles over the last 10 years for southern and see which state is the biggest dynasty cheater..

Also of the southern sectional winner you should see how many teams beat them at nationals and see who was the biggest cheater overall


The usta cant really do much about sandbaggers they put a system in place and allow peoples character to shine.. They could count every single match you play for the year though adult singles mixed combo tournaments etc... to get a more accurate rating..

The usta could implement a rule that no self rated player can play higher than the local league but they may or may not lose money doing that

as far as the sanbagging though its left up to people and thats why its failing not the system..

I never said anything about Kentucky being “cheaters” and don’t know anything about their players or the Tennessee team or their players, or really any other teams in the Sectionals for that matter. All I know is that the Alabama player/captain who was posting on here last year made allegations about the Kentucky team they beat in the finals having improper self-ratings; however, as you said, and as I asked him last year, what does that say about the Alabama team since they beat the very Kentucky team he was complaining about???

As far as this year’s Kentucky team, I just said, on paper, they looked strong as they had a number of players who played at higher levels years ago (4.5/5.0) and then they had a self-rate, who had an odd score that makes it look like they were trying to protect him. Now, why some of those guys who used to play 4.5 and sometimes 5.0 are rated 4.0’s today, I don’t know. Maybe they got bumped down by the computer b/c they didn’t do well in those higher levels years ago. Maybe they were injured at some point and were granted medical appeals. Maybe they sat out of league for a couple of years and were able to re-rate two years ago before the USTA closed that loop-hole last year. Maybe there is some legitimate explanation why their “self-rate” player who won all of his 4.0 matches against 4.0’s lost 6-0, 6-0 to two 3.5’s. Whether he was trying to sandbag to protect his rating doesn’t necessarily mean that he is not a 4.0 player. I don’t know.
As far as the state with the most titles and “biggest dynasty cheater” over the past ten years, I looked at the past winners going back to 2002 and don’t think there is one “biggest dynasty cheater” out there.

2010 – Alabama defeated Kentucky in Southern finals and won the NC;
2009 – Arkansas defeated Kentucky in Southern finals and lost to the Eastern section team in the NC finals;
2008 – North Carolina defeated Alabama in the Southern finals and lost to So. Cal. and Caribbean at Nationals;
2007 – Louisiana defeated Kentucky in Southern finals and lost to No. Cal and Texas at Nationals;
2006 – Alabama defeated North Carolina in Southern finals and lost to No. Cal in Nationals;
2005 – Louisiana defeated Georgia in Southern finals and won the NC;
2004 - Kentucky defeated North Carolina in the Southern finals and lost to the Middle States and ******** at Nationals;
2003 – North Carolina defeated South Carolina in the Southern finals and lost to Southwest, Caribbean, and ****** at Nationals.

Looking at those statistics alone, Kentucky has made it to the finals 4 of the past 8 years. Louisiana, Alabama, and North Carolina have all won it twice. Alabama and Louisiana have won a NC, Ark. lost in the NC finals, and the other winners didn’t fair very well at Nationals.

[tennis_tater]

Looks like Alabama and Louisiana are doing pretty good in the Men's divisions for the 1st week of Sectionals:

2.5 - Alabama appears to be the winner;
3.0 - Louisiana v. Alabama in the finals;
3.5 - Louisiana v. Alabama in the finals;
Senior 4.0 - Louisiana A v. Louisiana B in the finals