Applying Stringbed Physics for Optimum Performance

[Bud]

Originally Posted by travlerajm

I disagree.

I'm a 4.5-5.0 player. I hit quite hard and with plenty of spin, and I would no longer consider playing with strings that are less spin-friendly than poly.

I also would be breaking strings in less than an hour if I used syn gut.

My contention is that even 10 hours of play is a ridiculously short playing life, and that the tennis string industry has a good scam going with the this poly craze.

I'm a former Problend user (used it for more than 15 years, strung at 77 lbs in a Wilson Profile OS). Problend would last me about 30 hours in that racquet before it broke (where syn gut only lasted 30 minutes at that tension).

I currently use Kevlar mains (crossed with poly) because it let's me keep playing with decent stringbed performance for 20, 40, even 50 hours. However, I'll note that I'm finding myself stringing this combo somewhat tighter than I did at first, because the poly crosses do lose quite a bit of tension over time, and once it does, control can suffer. I like to string it so that it will feel perfect after the poly crosses have stretched out. It stays playable because the combo never loses it's string-in-string lubricity.

Kevlar dies very quickly... no arm or wrist issues?

[Bud]

I didn't feel much difference leaving off the top and bottom crosses

[fgs]

everybody surely is entitled to their own opinion. the craze started by the industry is there because it has found fruitful soil and it was possible to develop an own "life". most part of this overrating comes from the minds of the people!
in order to just continue your line of thought i would continue to say that the most crap strings are natty gut. there is the real craze about it - i play heavy topspin and string life of 45 minutes in full bed is absolutely not satisfactory. as opposed to this i get some 10 hours out of poly and kevlar i have no intention to try because of my shoulder.
i'm through with a poly before it dies! of course there are some that die before, but i have learned to avoid them.
i know very well that the marketing and most of all the advertising departments lie in the sense of exaggerating or telling half-truths - surely you can put more spin on the ball with a string like a poly, it is the technique though that comes first - the string itself won't spin the ball. if people buy this, it's not so much the advetising people to blame but the believers.

[ivo]

And what about to use stiffer, thicker poly for center strings and for outer strings something thinner, more elastic and at different tension?

You could either tie these two strings together ( these knots- touching grommets- will also ensure, that tensions will not become equal) or in racquets which have all double holes, you could just make lot of regular tie offs.

[travlerajm]

Originally Posted by Bud

Kevlar dies very quickly... no arm or wrist issues?

I don't really think Kevlar dies quickly. The stiffness does relax a lot during the first hour or so of play, but once it softens up, I don't really notice much change after that. It "plateaus" -- the key is to make sure that I like the way it feels AFTER it settles in (not before).

People who use poly tend to rely on the opposite approach, where they only play with 'fresh' poly. In my opinion, this approach is not very practical unless you're a pro - it means you are re-stringing all the time.

I've never had arm or wrist issues. I think most people don't know what a Kevlar stringbed feels like AFTER it has softened up.

My O3 Red strung with the string setup in my signature feels softer at impact than 95% of all the racquets out there. For several reasons:
1. The stringbed is "broken in."
2. The O3 Red is EXTREMELY open pattern compared to most racquets.
3. The frame is quite heavy -- I think it's almost impossible to develop tennis elbow with a frame weighted like mine, because the mass of the frame absorbs most of the impact.

I let a 55-year-old friend of mine with tender elbows try my O3 Red, and he couldn't believe how soft and comfortable it felt.

That being said, I am currently on the lookout for a frame to replace my O3 Red -- I'm looking for something with same headsize and stiffness as O3 Red, only with tighter string pattern. The extremely open pattern is great for topspin groundies, but not so great for volleys.

[ivo]

Originally Posted by travlerajm

My O3 Red strung with the string setup in my signature feels softer at impact than 95% of all the racquets out there.

Could you please describe how do you have placed your lead? Because I am not able to get soft feel at all with this racquet, when I place lot of lead at 12 o 'clock and counterweight at bottom half of the handle.

[travlerajm]

Originally Posted by ivo

Could you please describe how do you have placed your lead? Because I am not able to get soft feel at all with this racquet, when I place lot of lead at 12 o 'clock and counterweight at bottom half of the handle.

My current frame has 2 layers of lead stretching all the way around the top half of the hoop, from 3 to 9. And then another 2 ounces added at the top of the handle. My final specs are in my signature -- I highly recommend taking accurate mass, balance, and SW measurements of the frame so you can compare setups better.

[ivo]

Originally Posted by travlerajm

My current frame has 2 layers of lead stretching all the way around the top half of the hoop, from 3 to 9. And then another 2 ounces added at the top of the handle. My final specs are in my signature -- I highly recommend taking accurate mass, balance, and SW measurements of the frame so you can compare setups better.

Thanks.

I knew that you use lead at 10 and 2 and then at top handle, but I was confused with your information about 18g at 12 o' clock. I tried it and to get your specs I had to counterbalance at butt cap area instead of top handle and this setup doesn't feel good with this racquet.

Your lead from 9 to 3 is more like at 10.30 than at 12, that is why my frame doesn't feel very good.

[Bud]

I tried something different to try and mimic removing the last couple of mains on each side and top/bottom crosses.

I strung the racquet like usual at 60# (Isospeed Baseline poly on a dropweight machine) but didn't tension the last 2 mains on each side or the first 3 and last 3 crosses... to try and avoid the problem of tie-off locations.

I also sprayed the stringbed with silicone lubricant on both sides after finishing.

The average DT in the active part of the stringbed, 5 hours post stringing, is still about 42 DT. The DT of the outer mains is less than 20.

Will report back if I feel any difference after hitting with the frame tomorrow

- -

I took SBS readings to discover if the stringbed loses any more tension than normal... i.e. equalizing when not tying off. In my experience, a stringbed doesn't equalize when using various tensions. I conducted an experiment awhile back where I marked a straight line across the entire stringbed... the line was still straight weeks later... none of the strings had moved through the grommets over time.

[travlerajm]

Originally Posted by Bud

I tried something different to try and mimic removing the last couple of mains on each side and top/bottom crosses.

I strung the racquet like usual at 60# (Isospeed Baseline poly on a dropweight machine) but didn't tension the last 2 mains on each side or the first 3 and last 3 crosses... to try and avoid the problem of tie-off locations.

I also sprayed the stringbed with silicone lubricant on both sides after finishing.

The average DT in the active part of the stringbed, 5 hours post stringing, is still about 42 DT. The DT of the outer mains is less than 20.

Will report back if I feel any difference after hitting with the frame tomorrow

- -

I took SBS readings to discover if the stringbed loses any more tension than normal... i.e. equalizing when not tying off. In my experience, a stringbed doesn't equalize when using various tensions. I conducted an experiment awhile back where I marked a straight line across the entire stringbed... the line was still straight weeks later... none of the strings had moved through the grommets over time.

Look forward to hearing how well that works.

I'm really appreciating the frames that I've tried this "center stringing only" method on.

Unfortunately, I don't think I can use the method on my O3 Red because the Red is so darn open-patterned that it feels soft an springy with Kevlar/poly in the 70s. And if I go up to 80 lbs, I suspect the poly will get fragile.

I'm thinking about picking up a BLX Blade, since I think the method would be most effective on a dense-patterned frame where I don't need to string very tight.

[Bud]

My other frame is also due for re-stringing. If I like how this frame feels tomorrow, I'll boost the tension up to 65# and once again not tension the 4 outer mains and 6 outer crosses on the other frame.

It makes stringing the frame go much faster too, so hopefully it feels really good

[Bud]

I didn't notice any extra spin but I did notice a lose of control on my FH (flying long). I switched frames (to my regular strung frame - which needs restringing) and the FH was back on track. Will give it another try on Thursday to verify what I was feeling.

DT of the first 6 mains is still 40+... outside mains about 20 .. so no tension creep after about 3 hours and 4 hard sets. The last set is when I noticed my FH going awry and I switched frames.

I have to say (once again) that the Isospeed Baseline poly is one amazing string. It's such a nice soft poly that retains its tension superbly.

[alexgeorge]

Originally Posted by travlerajm

The interesting results from the TW Professor's string spin research showed that spin can be increased by increasing the freedom for the mains to travel laterally within the plane of the stringbed (by using a 16x10 pattern). However, the 16x10 pattern was much more effective when strung at 60 lbs vs 30 lbs. It was shown that a soft stringbed allows the the ball to "dent" the stringbed more, resulting in normal forces on the bottom of the ball that increase launch angle and reduce the spin potential.

The take-home result is that a stringbed with freedom for string-on-string sliding combined with high stiffness leads to maximum spin. Unfortunately, a 16x10 pattern cannot practically be strung tight enough to take advantage. But there are ways to apply the physics principles in a more practical approach.

A typical modern poly or poly-hybrid stringbed is quite effective for producing a good combination of spin and power. However, the tradeoff (compared to the less spin-friendly stringbeds of the past) is a higher launch angle that makes it more difficult to control the rebound angle off the racquetface for heavily spun incoming balls (this weakness manifests itself most on volleys and blocked returns).

Stringing a poly stringbed much tighter to make it much stiffer (or using a denser stringbed) reduces the launch angle to give better directional control, but at a cost of reduced spin and power.

Fortunately, there is a way to combine the advantages of a typical poly stringbed (good spin and power) with the enhanced control of a lower launch angle. The key is to string the racquet in a way so that the center portion of the stringbed (where the ball impacts the strings) is extremely stiff, to prevent the ball from denting the stringbed, while making the peripheral region of the stringbed extremely flexible to allow the ball impact to stretch the edge of the stringbed to increase the deflection of the center. An easy way to do this is to string the racquet 10+ lbs tighter than normal, but then skip the outermost strings); e.g., converting a 16x19 pattern into a 14x18, or an 18x20 into a 16x18 or 14x18.

I have applied the latter technique to my RDS001MP, to amazing effect. In fact, I have found that the spin level of my 14x18 pattern RDS strung at 70 lbs far exceeds what I can generate at 53 lbs tension with the full 16x19 pattern. Even with the extra spin potential, the stiff center of the stringbed makes the racquet much more accurate on volleys than with lower tensions too.

The effects of the 3 cases mentioned above are sketched below:

what about a 12 X16 pattern? would that be good on a micro dense racket (say you make it from 22X 28 to 12 x16

[alexgeorge]

Originally Posted by travlerajm

I don't really think Kevlar dies quickly. The stiffness does relax a lot during the first hour or so of play, but once it softens up, I don't really notice much change after that. It "plateaus" -- the key is to make sure that I like the way it feels AFTER it settles in (not before).

People who use poly tend to rely on the opposite approach, where they only play with 'fresh' poly. In my opinion, this approach is not very practical unless you're a pro - it means you are re-stringing all the time.

I've never had arm or wrist issues. I think most people don't know what a Kevlar stringbed feels like AFTER it has softened up.

My O3 Red strung with the string setup in my signature feels softer at impact than 95% of all the racquets out there. For several reasons:
1. The stringbed is "broken in."
2. The O3 Red is EXTREMELY open pattern compared to most racquets.
3. The frame is quite heavy -- I think it's almost impossible to develop tennis elbow with a frame weighted like mine, because the mass of the frame absorbs most of the impact.

I let a 55-year-old friend of mine with tender elbows try my O3 Red, and he couldn't believe how soft and comfortable it felt.

That being said, I am currently on the lookout for a frame to replace my O3 Red -- I'm looking for something with same headsize and stiffness as O3 Red, only with tighter string pattern. The extremely open pattern is great for topspin groundies, but not so great for volleys.

sorry travlerajm I meant 10x15 with thin strings but kevlar/poly(made from a very dense 22x30)