Emira Stafford .....

[Soianka]

Originally Posted by TennisCoachFLA

I too am skeptical and have been for years. We have 3 or 4 girls who are internet video stars but who never compete with top girls. The story is always the same, juniors are a waste and we are going pro.

A cynic might think the real reason is that dad wants to create and keep hype going without the bubble being burst by actual top competition.

After all, we have all seen kids who look like world beaters in a practice setting and who can not win a thing vs a real opponent with nasty intentions!

We all remember Jan Silva who looked at age 4-5-6 on video as if he would be destroying 10 year olds by age 7. He had academy training, personal massage, every advantage. Had pretty strokes with fed balls. Yet in the Norcal local tournies he has proven to struggle. Maybe one day he will turn into a great player but his videos showed the vast difference between practice and reality.

Practice players vs real players.....every parent must suck it up and find out if you have the former or the later.

Isn't Jan Silva in France now?

[Soianka]

Originally Posted by Number1Coach

One minute you people say the 10's and 12's are meaningless and proves nothing then you say the Williams girls dominated the 10's and 12's then they were pulled out.

My question is how are these kids who by-pass the younger age groups doing anything wrong or do they have to dominate the 10's and 12's then they are on the right path ?

Do the 10's and 12's matter TCF or not ?

I read an article by Stan Smith? (I think it was Stan Smith) a while back where he was talking about that he had a hunch that there was another path to creating a world champion tennis player. That a junior could be generally athletic and start playing tennis later like age 13-15 and maybe not complete in junior events, etc.

I guess the point is no one really knows what can be done until someone does it. The Williams Sisters did blaze a new path by not competing at the high level junior competitions in their later teenage years. Can someone become a great player without playing official junior tournaments at all (but rather just practice matches)?

So far, no one has exactly done that. But I personally think it's possible.

I guess we will see what happens with the careers of these youtube girls in the next 4 or 5 years.

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by Soianka

I read an article by Stan Smith? (I think it was Stan Smith) a while back where he was talking about that he had a hunch that there was another path to creating a world champion tennis player. That a junior could be generally athletic and start playing tennis later like age 13-15 and maybe not complete in junior events, etc.

I guess the point is no one really knows what can be done until someone does it. The Williams Sisters did blaze a new path by not competing at the high level junior competitions in their later teenage years. Can someone become a great player without playing official junior tournaments at all (but rather just practice matches)?

So far, no one has exactly done that. But I personally think it's possible.

I guess we will see what happens with the careers of these youtube girls in the next 4 or 5 years.

Venus played till 12 years of age a couple of months before 13 took 2 to 3 years off and got back to it at 15 years of age.

So my question is how much did they really do outside of the juniors?

[TennisCoachFLA]

Originally Posted by Number1Coach

One minute you people say the 10's and 12's are meaningless and proves nothing then you say the Williams girls dominated the 10's and 12's then they were pulled out.

My question is how are these kids who by-pass the younger age groups doing anything wrong or do they have to dominate the 10's and 12's then they are on the right path ?

Do the 10's and 12's matter TCF or not ?

It all depends. The girls mature way earlier than the boys so you can learn much about a 12 year old girl in competition than you can a 12 year old boy.

Also, what sort of 12s? A girl becoming top 10 in Rhode Island? Or a girl owning the 12s in SoCal?

But nonetheless, being the top USTA kid in the 10s and 12s does not mean a whole lot in terms of who will succeed in the pros.

But that was a different discussion.

This one is that these dads have all said they are "following the Richard Williams" model. Thats not true. His girls played juniors for a good long time.

These dads apparently plan to bypass all juniors, 14s, 16s, 18s, ITF, everything.

Do you know any top pros who played no junior tournies at all?

[TennisCoachFLA]

Originally Posted by Soianka

I read an article by Stan Smith? (I think it was Stan Smith) a while back where he was talking about that he had a hunch that there was another path to creating a world champion tennis player. That a junior could be generally athletic and start playing tennis later like age 13-15 and maybe not complete in junior events, etc.

I guess the point is no one really knows what can be done until someone does it. The Williams Sisters did blaze a new path by not competing at the high level junior competitions in their later teenage years. Can someone become a great player without playing official junior tournaments at all (but rather just practice matches)?

So far, no one has exactly done that. But I personally think it's possible.

I guess we will see what happens with the careers of these youtube girls in the next 4 or 5 years.

My guess is that they would pay the price during their first years on tour. For example, lets take Nadal. He had success on the pro tour at a fairly young age and fairly soon after he turned full time pro. He had competed at a high level in his teens and was able to translate that experience quickly.

Had he never competed in juniors he might have struggled for 3-4 years as his knowledge of the nuances of competing in real matches caught up to his athletic talent. Paying the dues of learning to compete would have just been delayed and paid later. But I bet he would have still become the great player he is today, just a few years later.

I think examples like the Williams sisters do not work because they are "freaks". The Williams sisters had extreme size and power and training and opportunity and athletic ability. Like Tiger, their dads got 'lucky' as they happen to have huge talents to work with. We never hear about the other 1000000 kids whose dad's took them down similar paths and they could not cut it.

Think about the 10-20 mediocre tennis playing young girls you have seen in the past year. We all know them, they try hard but are simply low on talent. Had Richard Williams had 2 of them would he have made them champs? Had his girls topped out at 5'3" would he have made them champs? Not a chance.

But I agree with you....it is theoretically possible for this no juniors at all method to work if a dad is lucky enough to have an extreme talent on his hands.

But my spider sense is telling me these three dads have a different agenda, keep the hype going by avoiding the top girls. All have huge egos and why would they not like their girls to go to the Eddie Herr and destroy all the other girls? Of course they would.

[Number1Coach]

I think we can all agree that true athletic freaks look something like Hinges or Henin ,,,,,,,,,

These 2 not only were a lot smaller then the Williams sisters but were able to dominate them back to back at tournaments-----------

In fact Hinges and her mom had many arguments over here not wanting to do off court training like the Williams were doing ,,,,,, This I believe could have elevated Hinges to a completely different level then all the rest of the field ---------------This we saw in another great athlete such as Martina Navratolova.

[chalkflewup]

Originally Posted by Number1Coach

I think we can all agree that true athletic freaks look something like Hinges or Henin ,,,,,,,,,

These 2 not only were a lot smaller then the Williams sisters but were able to dominate them back to back at tournaments-----------

In fact Hinges and her mom had many arguments over here not wanting to do off court training like the Williams were doing ,,,,,, This I believe could have elevated Hinges to a completely different level then all the rest of the field ---------------This we saw in another great athlete such as Martina Navratolova.

These are great, healthy and fun debates. The Williams sisters are phenoms with Serena arguably being one of the best female players of all time. Serena is a massive freak. She's strong, athletic, and a fierce competitor. They have spoiled us the last 17 years and will be sorely missed when they leave the game.

I would not categorize Hinges as a freak. Maybe off the court (referring to her nickname of the Black Widow), but Hinges would not not dominate today's game. Her second serve was a pair of two's - total bluff - and would be exposed by the bigger hitting girls of today, training or no training. Now Henin, she's a different story. Pound for pound, the best I've seen.

[ofcr17601]

Once again, can anyone comment on who they think the top 13 and 14yr old girls in the country are?

By the way, I've had a chance speak with a few African American dad's who believed although Richard Williams was a source of inspiration. They don't necessarilly respect the Williams camp because of the lack of class and arrogance exhibited by Serena, (to a certain degree) Venus, Richard and the Mom.

[TennisCoachFLA]

Originally Posted by Soianka

Isn't Jan Silva in France now?

He and his family were at a French tennis academy for about a year but returned to Norcal about 2 years ago.

[Soianka]

Originally Posted by TennisCoachFLA

He and his family were at a French tennis academy for about a year but returned to Norcal about 2 years ago.

Oh, I didn't realize they were back. Seemed like they had a good set up in France and that they (Mouratoglou) were prepared to work with the boy for many years. Wonder what happened.

[tennis-silver]

double post

[ga tennis]

I know two 11 year olds here in Macon that would beat this girl!!! Dont get me wrong she hits a good ball but these two girls would blast her off the court..Emira does have great footwork!!!!

[Soianka]

I saw Emira play today. She really is as good as she looks on the videos.

[tennisnoob3]

Originally Posted by Soianka

I saw Emira play today. She really is as good as she looks on the videos.

you saw her hit with a ball machine? has she played any tournaments yet?

[Soianka]

Originally Posted by tennisnoob3

you saw her hit with a ball machine? has she played any tournaments yet?

I saw her play a match.

She is in a tournament in my town. I was there to see a friend's daughter play and saw this girl playing and started asking who this little girl was. When they told me, I knew the name sounded familiar and googled her when I got home.

She really has great form and is very calm and focused when playing.

[tennisnoob3]

Originally Posted by Soianka

I saw her play a match.

She is in a tournament in my town. I was there to see a friend's daughter play and saw this girl playing and started asking who this little girl was. When they told me, I knew the name sounded familiar and googled her when I got home.

She really has great form and is very calm and focused when playing.

is the tournament a usta tournament? did she win the tournament?

[Soianka]

Originally Posted by tennisnoob3

is the tournament a usta tournament? did she win the tournament?

It was the ATA national tournament. I believe she is playing the 14's. Her competition today was not that high. However, her form looked really good and she was very composed for someone who never plays tournaments.

I believe she will meet a pretty good 4 or 5 star player in the semis if she makes it that far. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Bash and Crash]

Originally Posted by Soianka

It was the ATA national tournament. I believe she is playing the 14's. Her competition today was not that high. However, her form looked really good and she was very composed for someone who never plays tournaments.

I believe she will meet a pretty good 4 or 5 star player in the semis if she makes it that far. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Awesome, may be the start of something

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by Soianka

It was the ATA national tournament. I believe she is playing the 14's. Her competition today was not that high. However, her form looked really good and she was very composed for someone who never plays tournaments.

I believe she will meet a pretty good 4 or 5 star player in the semis if she makes it that far. It will be interesting to see what happens.

This girl puts the size on she will be great.

[Erman]

Originally Posted by jmdlaw

We can post many videos of young players and say this one does this good and this one does that good. Shishkina is no doubt a great player but Emira looks to be more of a natural athlete etc etc etc . Also - I saw the Shishkina girl while visiting IMG twice and although she is a good player - too much defense for my liking. Also really no pace on the ball. Tornado Black hits with much more pace than Shishkina. But again - they are young and more likely that none of them make it to the next level. This Shishkina girl may also have head problems later. According to many of the coaches I spoke to there, she has a reputation for cheating and is very full of herself. The mother is a nut bag - I watched her many times screaming at her while she was on the court. Who knows right?

Was at Zonals this week and it's coaching. Every kid from one section within the first 4-5 points accused his/her opponent of "cheating". Not just questioning calls but "cheating". Then they would forget points causing arguments and one "forgot" the game count. It was pathetic.

One of the kids who was getting hooked badly just told his son to hit it in. Meaning , hit with big margins on the lines and let the kid make the mistake and breakdown. As soon as his opponent cussed, flung his racquet or complained about the pain in his ( insert body part) you'd know it was over. Lots of bad feelings and a coach from one of the sections was screaming at a parent about being a loser, another dad was encouraging his kid to get "this kids autograph after you kick his butt".

Just weird stuff. One of the girls on the team screamed at her dad and told him to quit saying she was playing like a "f***ing p***y".

Brad Gilbert must be really proud that his Winning Ugly is the bible on some junior sections and coaches.