Hardest Section in USTA - Page 3

Erman · 08-01-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSPE84

LOL, and I'm sure your player was an angel in that whole mess right, Mom?

If she's talking about the same zonals that I was at, there was one team from a section that had 5-6 players call for referees or accuse the opponent of cheating within the first 2-3 games of the first set 3 days in a row. I saw this one kid forget the game score when the court next to there's was arguing for about 15 minutes and the official was trying to settle a dispute on whether a point was game point for one kid or deuce. (ended up playing the entire game over) with the kid that "forgot" the score losing.... again.

I don't think it's the area of the country, I think it was one or two of the top players or leaders on the team being enabled by a coach and parents that read Brad Gilbert's little book about Winning Ugly that fosters the idea, "if you're not cheating, you're not trying" mentality. I like the idea of the zonal tournaments because of the high number of matches that the kids can play with kids from different areas of the country. Naples and Alabama in the past were great, but for some reason it got ugly early and never improved. Oh well, karma is a nasty thing and gamesmanship is not going to elevate anyone's skill set.

tennis5 · 08-01-2011, 12:09 PM

Erman, we were not at the same zonal.....

Please document your complaints with your sectional and other sectional involved. Also, cc the national office.
If we just complain on this board, nothing gets changed.

It is a shame when Zonals gets dragged down into the muck because this is the fun events for the kids.

tennis5 · 08-01-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalkflewup

If there is a problem, file a grievance. Encourage other parents to do the same. Put the hooks on notice. I have done it with positive support from our section.

Better said than me, thanks.

BMC9670 · 08-01-2011, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalkflewup

I don't think putting an official on every court is the answer. And, I don't think it's a problem of that magnitude. If there is a problem, file a grievance. Encourage other parents to do the same. Put the hooks on notice. I have done it with positive support from our section.

I agree on reporting and putting cheaters on notice. Not sure a ref on every court is even possible, but it would certainly help. Every other sport has refs and I've seen kids and parents get ejected from little league games for bad behavior, swearing, etc. Tourney fees keep going up and it stinks to get hooked right out of one. I've seen it happen, but not had it happen to my kids yet.

10isDad · 08-01-2011, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erman

I don't think it's the area of the country, I think it was one or two of the top players or leaders on the team being enabled by a coach and parents that read Brad Gilbert's little book about Winning Ugly that fosters the idea, "if you're not cheating, you're not trying" mentality.

I've read Gilbert's "little book" multiple times. Pray tell where in his book it encourages cheating?

hound 109 · 08-01-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojojojo

Also, moving zonals to end of August would never work, many schools start mid August.

I think they should move them to late June (a week & a half after most sections hold sectionals). & if needed, move one of the 7/2 or 7/9 tourneys to another date (March?)

I agree late August wouldn't work.

mojojojo · 08-01-2011, 02:03 PM

..........................

Soianka · 08-01-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

parents that read Brad Gilbert's little book about Winning Ugly that fosters the idea, "if you're not cheating, you're not trying" mentality.

I never read that book, but does his book really support the idea of cheating and gamesmanship?

Just curious.

TennisCoachFLA · 08-01-2011, 03:14 PM

Brad Gilbert's book is not like that at all. It does go into gamesmanship such as a club player who warms up early, then pretends to show up late to a match and not have time to warm up. Gamesmanship like that, and Brad is careful to say even that is a little skeevy. He NEVER advocates cheating at all. In fact just the opposite.

Winning Ugly is about knowing which games mean more in a set and match. When to go for it, when to play defense. When to drop shot, when to use angles. He does advocate taking extra time if you are struggling to try and throw an opponent off who is rolling....but he mentions it must be done within the rules.

He also tells about the garbage Connors and Mac got away with back in the day. He says it worked for them but he also says the tournament organizers did it to keep big money guys happy. He talks about it matter of factly, not as an advocate.

Erman seriously misunderstood the book. The main point he makes over and over is that many tennis players have no clue about little things such as which games mean more, when to use legal gamesmanship, etc. He tells how many players don't even attempt to scout opponenents by asking around about their styles.

Stuff like that.....not cheating.

TennisCoachFLA · 08-01-2011, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10isDad

I've read Gilbert's "little book" multiple times. Pray tell where in his book it encourages cheating?

Exactly, it doesn't. He totally misrepresented or misunderstood the book. The only times he mentions illegal stuff is in a matter of fact way to let people know what some players do so they can be prepared.

He NEVER advocated cheating. He advocates being prepared, scouting, knowing when to use certain shots, which games mean the most in the course of a match, when to slow things down a tad within the rules to get some rest.....he teaches players to use their brains a little.

justinmadison · 08-01-2011, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TennisCoachFLA

He NEVER advocated cheating. He advocates being prepared, scouting, knowing when to use certain shots, which games mean the most in the course of a match, when to slow things down a tad within the rules to get some rest.....he teaches players to use their brains a little.

He does not advocate cheating in the book but in juniors he was a notorious cheater. It was so bad that after he hooked a kid on the last point and reported the scores the tournament referee made him go back to the court and replay the point. That is a major rep as a cheater.

TennisCoachFLA · 08-01-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinmadison

He does not advocate cheating in the book but in juniors he was a notorious cheater. It was so bad that after he hooked a kid on the last point and reported the scores the tournament referee made him go back to the court and replay the point. That is a major rep as a cheater.

I hear you, but I am specifically addressing his book and how a poster misrepresented it.

jokinla · 08-02-2011, 10:37 PM

Well since I came up through the MVTA I would say that, and Jack Sock did just win last years Kalamazoo and US Open, so we do have some talent.

SoCal10s · 08-05-2011, 12:55 PM

SoCal have 18 players from ournsection playing at Kalamazoo this year..2 ,Marcos and Alexios have a real chance of winning ..

tennisgreat755 · 08-09-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal10s

SoCal have 18 players from ournsection playing at Kalamazoo this year..2 ,Marcos and Alexios have a real chance of winning ..

Didn't do too well at the junior davis cup in Illinois lol. Do you have any idea why Giron or Halebian didn't play that?

mojojojo · 08-09-2011, 06:25 PM

....................

tennisbuck · 12-02-2012, 09:44 PM

Im from the Missouri Valley, and yes we are pretty bad

NLBwell · 12-05-2012, 03:58 PM

The places where kids can play outside (free) all year round have the strongest depth. Otherwise there is a big gap in capability between the top juniors whose parents spend big for indoor time and year-round playing time and coaching and everyone else.

TennisA · 12-05-2012, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisbuck

Im from the Missouri Valley, and yes we are pretty bad

Seconded as a resident of the area too

tennisbuck · 12-05-2012, 09:02 PM

what i want to know is though, why is the mid west so much better than the Missouri valley? they don't have any better weather than we do.

08-01-2011, 02:03 PM	#47
mojojojo Rookie Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 144	.......................... Last edited by mojojojo : 10-25-2012 at 01:07 PM.

08-01-2011, 03:14 PM	#49
TennisCoachFLA Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,338	Brad Gilbert's book is not like that at all. It does go into gamesmanship such as a club player who warms up early, then pretends to show up late to a match and not have time to warm up. Gamesmanship like that, and Brad is careful to say even that is a little skeevy. He NEVER advocates cheating at all. In fact just the opposite. Winning Ugly is about knowing which games mean more in a set and match. When to go for it, when to play defense. When to drop shot, when to use angles. He does advocate taking extra time if you are struggling to try and throw an opponent off who is rolling....but he mentions it must be done within the rules. He also tells about the garbage Connors and Mac got away with back in the day. He says it worked for them but he also says the tournament organizers did it to keep big money guys happy. He talks about it matter of factly, not as an advocate. Erman seriously misunderstood the book. The main point he makes over and over is that many tennis players have no clue about little things such as which games mean more, when to use legal gamesmanship, etc. He tells how many players don't even attempt to scout opponenents by asking around about their styles. Stuff like that.....not cheating. Last edited by TennisCoachFLA : 08-01-2011 at 03:17 PM.

08-09-2011, 06:25 PM	#56
mojojojo Rookie Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 144	.................... Last edited by mojojojo : 10-25-2012 at 01:06 PM.

12-02-2012, 09:44 PM	#57
tennisbuck Rookie Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 354	Im from the Missouri Valley, and yes we are pretty bad __________________ /Tennisbuck/

12-05-2012, 09:02 PM	#60
tennisbuck Rookie Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 354	what i want to know is though, why is the mid west so much better than the Missouri valley? they don't have any better weather than we do. __________________ /Tennisbuck/ Last edited by tennisbuck : 12-05-2012 at 09:07 PM.