Pacific Classic 1.25 x MSV Co-Focus 1.18

[Boricua]

Originally Posted by Smasher08

Thanks buddy, I'm totally flattered. Glad you like 'em!

What gut sold by TW would you use instead of Whisper Touch in combination with MSV?

[The Big Kahuna]

Originally Posted by Boricua

What gut sold by TW would you use instead of Whisper Touch in combination with MSV?

I like the KLIP Legend Tour a lot - and it comes in wicked BLACK.

[pvaudio]

Originally Posted by Boricua

What gut sold by TW would you use instead of Whisper Touch in combination with MSV?

It depends. VS money, or Klip money?

[Avadia]

Originally Posted by Boricua

What gut sold by TW would you use instead of Whisper Touch in combination with MSV?

I've been using the Pacific Classic gut with it and get tons of power and spin.

[jk175d]

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

PLAYTEST UPDATE:

After 6 hours of play with the MSV Co-Focus 18g hybrid @ 48 (with KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains @ 52) in my Head Youtek Prestige Pro I am ready to declare this playtest to an end. Every time I put down this racquet to try one with another poly (Weiss Silverstring or Kirshbaum Pro Line II) while they both feel very good, I can wait to get back to the MSV. The feel and ball pocketing is SO much better. I have never felt strings with so much comfort, spin, control, and feel. The power is dialed down just a tad from the other two strings, but more balls go IN the court as a result. My groundstrokes and serves are much more consistent than they have been with anything else to date and it feels like the racquet is simply an part of my arm - it is almost as if I am "throwing the ball" back. The sweet spot feels huge and the picketing is insane! I am totally addicted. It is really like a whole new game for me. Fantastic!

Finally got a set of Co-focus 1.18 and strung it up on the crosses at 47. Believe it or not this is the 4th cross of strung on the same VS mains! (I know some people think this is nuts, but I'm not a string breaker and my stringing machine has a 6 pt clamping system so the hoop is very stable when I cut the crosses out, I can get a lot of life out of the gut mains by just replacing the crosses every 10 days or so). The mains had minimal notching but I made sure to weave the cross so the it overlapped in the same pattern as the previous crosses so it would use existing notches. If I did a fresh stringing I'd do VS at 56 and poly cross at 50 but knowing the mains had probably dropped into the upper 40's by now I strung the cross a little lower.

Anyway, played 4 sets of doubs and a set of singles today with it. Felt great! Probably a little crisper than the Silverstring I'd been using. I have another frame recently strung with VS and Silverstring and really the two felt pretty similar. Especially towards the end of hitting today after the MSV had broken in a little. Great combo.

[Smasher08]

Originally Posted by jk175d

Finally got a set of Co-focus 1.18 and strung it up on the crosses at 47. Believe it or not this is the 4th cross of strung on the same VS mains! (I know some people think this is nuts, but I'm not a string breaker and my stringing machine has a 6 pt clamping system so the hoop is very stable when I cut the crosses out, I can get a lot of life out of the gut mains by just replacing the crosses every 10 days or so). The mains had minimal notching but I made sure to weave the cross so the it overlapped in the same pattern as the previous crosses so it would use existing notches. If I did a fresh stringing I'd do VS at 56 and poly cross at 50 but knowing the mains had probably dropped into the upper 40's by now I strung the cross a little lower.

Anyway, played 4 sets of doubs and a set of singles today with it. Felt great! Probably a little crisper than the Silverstring I'd been using. I have another frame recently strung with VS and Silverstring and really the two felt pretty similar. Especially towards the end of hitting today after the MSV had broken in a little. Great combo.

Nice. Just out of curiosity, what gauge of VS are you using? 16?

[jk175d]

Originally Posted by Smasher08

Nice. Just out of curiosity, what gauge of VS are you using? 16?

17g for all the strings I ever play.

[Smasher08]

Originally Posted by jk175d

17g for all the strings I ever play.

Cool. How many hours do you reckon you get out of your mains on average?

[jk175d]

Originally Posted by Smasher08

Cool. How many hours do you reckon you get out of your mains on average?

I've only been using gut since July, and since I've been experimenting I only have one frame that the mains have stayed on. I keep stringing notes but don't log the hrs I play. So I'll have to guestimate that.

I strung the VS mains of this frame on Aug 1st @ 54lbs. Started with Lux Ace crosses, probably played only about 6-8 hrs before deciding I didn't like the crosses and stopped playing that frame. Aug 10 cut out the crosses and redid with SPPP 16g that someone gave me. I hated the feel of SPPP in this stick (EXO3 Tour) and the 16g felt terrible to me so probably on 2 hrs with that. Aug 16th I replaced the crosses with WC Silverstring and really liked that string as a cross. Probably played 25 hrs with that before cutting out the crossed and trying the MSV. Put. 4 hrs in with that yesterday.

So that's about 35-40 hrs. And since I'm liking the MSV I can see sticking with it until it goes dead. Maybe another 10-20 hrs? Who knows, maybe longer. So I can see getting 50-60 hrs out of my gut mains.

[Smasher08]

Update - 14 hours

There's not much to say other than playing with this is a real pleasure and a treat. Since about the 6 hour mark, the spin has been fantastic. I'm not sure how much of it is due to the Barry Bonds-style setup, but I sure hope that when properly done most of it is still there.

Playing for the better part of an hour in moist to wet conditions 1 1/2 weeks ago has definitely reduced the mains' ability to slide back: while it's not very severe I'm now finding that I have to nudge them into place every 20 mins or so. I'm also finding that they appear to be notching faster, especially just outside the sweetspot -- so I've now put in 3 string savers. To what extent this is due to the exposure to moisture rather than natural wear is unclear to me. Possibly relevant to their longevity is the fact that under tension they look about the same thickness as the 1.18 crosses.

Other than that, they really are wonderful to play with.

String movement: minor
Power: excellent
Spin potential: excellent to outstanding*
Arm friendlines: excellent
Feel: excellent
Fraying: virtually none
Notching: minor overall, moderate at a few intersections
Durability: keeps on truckin'

[Smasher08]

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

I don't see many reports on this current playtest (I know there was a stringing issue). Between the MSV Co-Focus 17g and the 18g, which did you prefer?

Sorry for the delay in responding to this.

In all honesty it's a bit tough to answer because I've used different gauge mains with each of them. Overall I think I prefer the 18g if only because I prefer the thinner gauge mains that are with it.

If durability becomes an issue, I'll try 16L mains with 18g crosses. Under tension I reckon that the mains will stretch and be more like 1.22-1.25 in thickness while the crosses will stay about the same.

[a0f6459]

Smasher08,

After following both of your playtest threads I think I am ready to give it a shot with the gut/ cofocus 17 1.18


Before I string it up I was wondering if you could help me with the tensions. I know there is no way to know specifically for my racket, but just looking for general guidelines.


Right now I string up my OS at 65 lbs with gut. I find the gut to be just a bit too powerful after it settles in.

Since I will be crossing the gut with cofocus, should I leave the main gut tension the same? My thinking is that the crosses would help tame the power of the gut. Do you find this to be true in this setup?

If I leave the gut tension the same should the tensions be 65 lb gut mains/ 62 cofocus crosses?

I'm stringing it in these higher tensions because of my racket being an OS. I've read that polys are not meant to be strung so high. If I string cofocus up at 62 lbs, will I be killing the string? This is my first experiment with poly.

Thanks in advance

[jk175d]

Originally Posted by a0f6459

Smasher08,

After following both of your playtest threads I think I am ready to give it a shot with the gut/ cofocus 17 1.18


Before I string it up I was wondering if you could help me with the tensions. I know there is no way to know specifically for my racket, but just looking for general guidelines.


Right now I string up my OS at 65 lbs with gut. I find the gut to be just a bit too powerful after it settles in.

Since I will be crossing the gut with cofocus, should I leave the main gut tension the same? My thinking is that the crosses would help tame the power of the gut. Do you find this to be true in this setup?

If I leave the gut tension the same should the tensions be 65 lb gut mains/ 62 cofocus crosses?

I'm stringing it in these higher tensions because of my racket being an OS. I've read that polys are not meant to be strung so high. If I string cofocus up at 62 lbs, will I be killing the string? This is my first experiment with poly.

Thanks in advance

I think poly at 60 lbs is a waste. The poly can't give you it's unique benifits at tensions that high. In my opinon you will gain do additional control or spin benifits and it will feel much harsher than your full bed of gut. I'm guessing if you play an oversize racquet you don't have a very fast swing. Without a fast swing there is nothing to be gained from poly imo. I think you'd be better off trying to mitigate the power of gut mains with a soft, control oriented multi in the crosses. Head RIP Control comes to mind. One of the softest strings out there and low power. You could keep your tenision where it is now. Poly is not for everyone. unless you are willing to experiment with gut/poly down in the low 50's or lower I don't reccomend it.

[a0f6459]

Originally Posted by jk175d

I think poly at 60 lbs is a waste. The poly can't give you it's unique benifits at tensions that high. In my opinon you will gain do additional control or spin benifits and it will feel much harsher than your full bed of gut. I'm guessing if you play an oversize racquet you don't have a very fast swing. Without a fast swing there is nothing to be gained from poly imo. I think you'd be better off trying to mitigate the power of gut mains with a soft, control oriented multi in the crosses. Head RIP Control comes to mind. One of the softest strings out there and low power. You could keep your tenision where it is now. Poly is not for everyone. unless you are willing to experiment with gut/poly down in the low 50's or lower I don't reccomend it.

The only reason I use an OS is because I just got back into tennis after about a 15 yr layoff. This is the same racket I used as a junior player and now it is over 20 years old (made in 1988!). Being that I was away for so long from the game, the choices in rackets are overwhelming, so for now I am sticking with what I am familiar with. So, I wouldn't say my swing is slow, which is why I need to string up my tension at 65 lbs in order maintain some control.

However, thanks for confirming that the poly at such a high tension wouldn't work. I really do want to try this setup, but I'm afraid that if I drop the gut mains into the mid 50s in this OS, I wouldn't have control at all, even while using poly crosses. But then again, I have never used poly before so I really have no clue.

Another thing to point out is that I have an eastern forehand and hit low to high through the ball (agassi) as opposed to whipping it with topspin (Rafa). Because of my swing type, should I just forget about trying this setup?

[Smasher08]

Originally Posted by a0f6459

I really do want to try this setup, but I'm afraid that if I drop the gut mains into the mid 50s in this OS, I wouldn't have control at all, even while using poly crosses.

Personally I think the big question here is: what's the tension range on your racket?

I'm stringing my gut mains 1 lb under the minimum recommended range -- and the poly crosses 4 lbs under -- without any problems. Sure, balls that would've gone 6 feet out now go 15, but I'm also getting a lot more spin, touch, feel, and power as well -- not to mention how arm-friendly it is. Factor in the fact that I'm also hitting more winners and high bouncing shots, and I find that the pros far outweigh the cons.

I find that gut strings at low tensions don't act how synthetics would at the same lbs, so don't be too afraid to try it out.

[a0f6459]

The range is 55 to 70.

What would you recommend?

[Smasher08]

Bottom-ish of the range.

Just remember: the whole point of this setup is to get lots of controllable power (ie power + spin). If you find you're hitting too flat, you may need to make a small adjustment or two so that you're generating more top.

EDIT: Having thought about this further, I wanted to add a caveat since I don't want to give you bad advice: if you have a late 80s style OS racket to go with late 80s style swings, what are you looking for by switching to a more modern style string setup? If you purely just want to tame the power of full bed gut, why not just increase their tension?

This string setup is very complementary to more modern swings: open stance eastern to semi-western forehands with Federer- or Djoker-like swing paths. So, for example, if you put one of these hybrids in McEnroe's racket, I'm not entirely sure that he'd benefit that much from it. But then again, Sampras seems to love full-bed poly in one of his new Babolats. So go figure.

I wish I could offer you more certainty, but you're caught between two extremes here: (1) at higher tensions the stringbed locks up and you don't get as much spin because spin is dependent on the mains deflecting and then snapping back into place on impact, and (2) there is such a thing as too low wherein if you don't generate enough top you'll be launching moon shots.

Of all the reviews I've read of gut-poly hybrids, I don't think anyone has reported using an OS racket before, so realistically you're probably going to be something of a guinea pig here.

The risk of going too high is that while you may think it's ok you won't be getting the full benefits of spinniness. So my advice would be to go low, bottom-ish of your range, and then if it's still too powerful try putting in some string savers. That said, if you're not interested in potentially having to adjust your swings to generate more spin, then you should probably just stick to full bed gut and string it higher.

[a0f6459]

Thanks for the edit.

What you have described is the tough part for me of figuring out string setups.

I'm still in my early 30s, so I grew up playing tennis during the Agassi, Chang, Courier, and Sampras era. So basically, this is the style I was coached, which is to hit through the ball going low to high. I think my grip is between eastern and semi-western.

Back then, the only guy I saw hit with a western grip was a foreign exchange student from Spain who played on my high school team.


I know I'll always be a flatter hitter (does not mean no topspin, just not rafa type topspin) because of the way I learned to play tennis, but I would like my string setup to give me the spin when I need it, namely for consistency during rallys and extra spin to put away the short balls.

[Smasher08]

Originally Posted by a0f6459

I know I'll always be a flatter hitter (does not mean no topspin, just not rafa type topspin) because of the way I learned to play tennis, but I would like my string setup to give me the spin when I need it, namely for consistency during rallys and extra spin to put away the short balls.

Given what you've said here, I'd say go for it.

First off, I don't think these strings will be durable enough for rafa-style swings, and second, you'll certainly benefit somewhat given what you said at the end there.

The copoly crosses should definitely take off at least some of the power you experience from gut crosses and you'll probably notice more spin in any event. But you should probably start low, near the bottom of your range, if only because you potentially stand to gain the most benefits from low tensions.

Good luck -- and please post your reviews!

[a0f6459]

I know you can only give a general recommendation, but how does this tension sound?

I string synthetic guts at 65 lbs. Recently I strung some Performaxx whispertouch 1.2 gut at 65 and it was more powerful, yet manageable.

I have been wanting to try out Pacific Classic and read here that it was lower powered for a gut.

If I were to go Pacific Classic 17 main and Cofocus 1.18 cross do you think 63/58 would be low enough? Or should I go lower?