Federer's racquet and retail

akybo · 09-16-2011, 01:22 AM

I have a question that I dont think it was answered yet,
We all know Federer's racquet specs are the same(or verry close) to the retail racquet but...his sticks have lead tape on the head and I assume they have silicone in the handle too.
The retail racquet has foam filled handle so I will argue about the head only.

If Fed sticks have the same specs with retails but with lead tape under the head grommet...this means that the weight difference(coming from lead) on the retail racquet,it is distributed on the upper side of the head(to mimic the leadtape)?that,to have the same swingweight of Federer's racquets.
I am guessing if that difference in weight it is distributed in other parts of the retail racquet,this will bring another SW different than Fed's.
My conclusion: the retail K90 or BLX90 is the same as Federer's racquet but with "lead tape" included.

Bobby Jr · 09-16-2011, 03:21 AM

People claim to know but the reality is, we have no idea. I suspect his frames are made by Wilson with custom flex and or composition - then send to Priority One to be made the same as each other in terms of weight, balance and handle.

His current frame is based on the K6.1 tour mould which, as shown in another lengthy thread, is ever so slightly different to the current BLX mould. Even then, some people even think this is merely a slight variation in the mould issue rather than an actual difference in design.

(moulds wear over prolonged use and therefore can spit out ever so slightly different end products - say with less defined corners etc... or perhaps the composition of paint changes too and has an effect in that area)

JoelDali · 09-16-2011, 03:21 AM

This is a great thread in the continuing mystery of what Roger really uses under the paint. Your findings are nearly spot on. However, the main difference we have found in our dissections at the Colorado School of Mines of both Roger's and the retail versions is the BLX Basalt Crystals found in Roger's are high end materials that sell on the Chicago exchange for $400 - 600 per ounce. While the retail uses cheaper BLX Crystals that are around $100 per ounce. The difference in the overall feel and control of the ball are light years difference between the 2. This is the secret to Rogi's near perfect game and why the average club player blows.

akybo · 09-16-2011, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoelDali

This is a great thread in the continuing mystery of what Roger really uses under the paint. Your findings are nearly spot on. However, the main difference we have found in our dissections at the Colorado School of Mines of both Roger's and the retail versions is the BLX Basalt Crystals found in Roger's are high end materials that sell on the Chicago exchange for $400 - 600 per ounce. While the retail uses cheaper BLX Crystals that are around $100 per ounce. The difference in the overall feel and control of the ball are light years difference between the 2. This is the secret to Rogi's near perfect game and why the average club player blows.

this was ironic
But my question is not the mold of fed's and retail,but the specs only.
Does all I wrote above have a good logic or not?

dr325i · 09-16-2011, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoelDali

This is a great thread in the continuing mystery of what Roger really uses under the paint. Your findings are nearly spot on. However, the main difference we have found in our dissections at the Colorado School of Mines of both Roger's and the retail versions is the BLX Basalt Crystals found in Roger's are high end materials that sell on the Chicago exchange for $400 - 600 per ounce. While the retail uses cheaper BLX Crystals that are around $100 per ounce. The difference in the overall feel and control of the ball are light years difference between the 2. This is the secret to Rogi's near perfect game and why the average club player blows.

it was also shown by the same school that those expensive crystals turn into the cheap ones when Innegra is around them...

Anyway, I agree with the Junior here that we can only speculate and will probably never know the real details...

R1CKSO · 09-16-2011, 05:11 AM

Hello, well I must say that Fed's specs are waaay different from a retail frame, starting with balance, a stock strung BLX90 or K90 has a balance of around 29~30.5 cms and I say around because Wilson's quality control just sucks, in Fed's setup, he uses a balance of 32.2cms and very high swingweight his racquets weigh 364grams, he uses 4 3/8 grip whith just one wilson pro over grip, 10 string savers in a criss cross patter on the 4th and 6th crosses, he strings with babolat VS team at around 47~52 lbs and luxilon alu power rough at around 44~49, that's hes real setup, so to bring a stock frame to this specs you MUST remove weight from the handle because if you just add lead to the top at 12 o'clock you'll never reach 364 grams, so the general idea, is he gets select stock frames that are ligther so Mr. Nate Ferguson can easily bring the weight to 364 and achieve the desired balance.
Hope this helps!

BreakPoint · 09-16-2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akybo

I have a question that I dont think it was answered yet,
We all know Federer's racquet specs are the same(or verry close) to the retail racquet but...his sticks have lead tape on the head and I assume they have silicone in the handle too.
The retail racquet has foam filled handle so I will argue about the head only.

If Fed sticks have the same specs with retails but with lead tape under the head grommet...this means that the weight difference(coming from lead) on the retail racquet,it is distributed on the upper side of the head(to mimic the leadtape)?that,to have the same swingweight of Federer's racquets.
I am guessing if that difference in weight it is distributed in other parts of the retail racquet,this will bring another SW different than Fed's.
My conclusion: the retail K90 or BLX90 is the same as Federer's racquet but with "lead tape" included.

I seem to recall that Federer's racquets have a higher swingweight than the retail racquets, which would be expected since he add a bit of lead tape under the bumper guard.

morten · 09-16-2011, 01:44 PM

[quote=R1CKSO;6010452]Hello, well I must say that Fed's specs are waaay different from a retail frame, starting with balance, a stock strung BLX90 or K90 has a balance of around 29~30.5 cms

wrong. 30.5 unstrung,31.5 strung. Yes Wilson quality control is bad, but it is rather more towards 32cm(even higher), than 30cm balance when it is off

R1CKSO · 09-16-2011, 02:42 PM

I don't mean to be rude or anything but I personally use the k90's I have 5 of them and before any customization was made to them, they all had a balance of around 30 to 31 cms but I must say that this was with an overgrip, they are very head light...

BreakPoint · 09-16-2011, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1CKSO

I don't mean to be rude or anything but I personally use the k90's I have 5 of them and before any customization was made to them, they all had a balance of around 30 to 31 cms but I must say that this was with an overgrip, they are very head light...

That's unstrung, right?

R1CKSO · 09-17-2011, 07:39 AM

No, that's strung that's why I added like 5 to 6 grams of lead @ 12 and I also had to drill and remove foam from the handle in order to remove some weight from the handle cause I don't like head light racquets...

FEDERERNADAL13 · 09-17-2011, 09:37 AM

Fed's Specs as said by Fabfed:
Headsize: 90 square inches
Weight: 364 grams (12.8 ounces) strung
Balance: 6 pts. HL
Length: 27 inches
String pattern: 16x19
Swingweight estimate: 355
Grip size: 4 3/8
Lead tape placement: 8 grams @ 12 o'clock

Does this help?

Povl Carstensen · 09-17-2011, 10:23 AM

Priority 1/Nate Ferguson has stated that the racket is basically the K90 with a few grams of lead at the top. Also Federer has special moulded pallets (for his prefered shape). I see no reason to distrust them, but its a matter of opinion.

akybo · 09-17-2011, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FEDERERNADAL13

Fed's Specs as said by Fabfed:
Headsize: 90 square inches
Weight: 364 grams (12.8 ounces) strung
Balance: 6 pts. HL
Length: 27 inches
String pattern: 16x19
Swingweight estimate: 355
Grip size: 4 3/8
Lead tape placement: 8 grams @ 12 o'clock

Does this help?

Yes,the strung weight was with overgrip so without og (-8g ;-10g) thats the same weight as the retail.
What I didnt knew was the swingweight,I thought it is the same as the retail too.

R1CKSO,what's the swingweight of your racquet now?

BreakPoint · 09-17-2011, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akybo

Yes,the strung weight was with overgrip so without og (-8g ;-10g) thats the same weight as the retail.
What I didnt knew was the swingweight,I thought it is the same as the retail too.

R1CKSO,what's the swingweight of your racquet now?

Actually, the Wilson Pro Overgrip that Federer uses it not that heavy. It should only add about 0.15 oz (~4 to 5 grams) to the racquet. That would bring his racquet up to 12.65 oz. from the retail stock 12.5 oz. The other 0.15 oz. is from the bit of lead tape that's added under the bumper to bring his playing weight up to 12.8 oz. That lead also makes his racquet less headlight than retail (6 pts. HL vs. 9 pts. HL retail) and increases the swingweight from 336 (retail) to 355.

JoelDali · 09-17-2011, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FEDERERNADAL13

Fed's Specs as said by Fabfed:
Headsize: 90 square inches
Weight: 364 grams (12.8 ounces) strung
Balance: 6 pts. HL
Length: 27 inches
String pattern: 16x19
Swingweight estimate: 355
Grip size: 4 3/8
Lead tape placement: 8 grams @ 12 o'clock

Does this help?

The auction sticks are PJs of a PJ.

West Coast Ace · 09-17-2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoelDali

The auction sticks are PJs of a PJ.

Sounds like 'Inception'... Leo will play Roger in the movie...

R1CKSO · 09-17-2011, 04:14 PM

R1CKSO · 09-17-2011, 04:22 PM

Hey buddy, I have just uploaded pics of the swing weight calcualtion I just did, I tried to be as precise as possible, I took 3 times and had an average, my scale is very precise since it is made for science lab and testing, so weight is also accurate, and after all I got:

Weight: 364.2 grams
Balance: 32.4 cms
Distance from end of butt cap to hanging string: 64.2cms
and finally, the average swing time: 13.7 seconds, so according to the swing weight calculator in TW, I got a SW of 354 which was pretty close or the same as suggested before by you...

Hope this helps!

ART ART · 09-17-2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1CKSO

...

Nice pics

This was what I have said/post some years ago

But since last months those specs are different

I hope to have the new specs in a few days...

Cheers

09-16-2011, 01:22 AM	#1
akybo Rookie Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Romania Posts: 310	Federer's racquet and retail I have a question that I dont think it was answered yet, We all know Federer's racquet specs are the same(or verry close) to the retail racquet but...his sticks have lead tape on the head and I assume they have silicone in the handle too. The retail racquet has foam filled handle so I will argue about the head only. If Fed sticks have the same specs with retails but with lead tape under the head grommet...this means that the weight difference(coming from lead) on the retail racquet,it is distributed on the upper side of the head(to mimic the leadtape)?that,to have the same swingweight of Federer's racquets. I am guessing if that difference in weight it is distributed in other parts of the retail racquet,this will bring another SW different than Fed's. My conclusion: the retail K90 or BLX90 is the same as Federer's racquet but with "lead tape" included.

09-16-2011, 03:21 AM	#2
Bobby Jr Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 4,543	People claim to know but the reality is, we have no idea. I suspect his frames are made by Wilson with custom flex and or composition - then send to Priority One to be made the same as each other in terms of weight, balance and handle. His current frame is based on the K6.1 tour mould which, as shown in another lengthy thread, is ever so slightly different to the current BLX mould. Even then, some people even think this is merely a slight variation in the mould issue rather than an actual difference in design. (moulds wear over prolonged use and therefore can spit out ever so slightly different end products - say with less defined corners etc... or perhaps the composition of paint changes too and has an effect in that area) __________________ Original Pro Staff 85, leaded to 370g, hybrid poly/syn gut set-up, 48-52-ish lbs.

09-16-2011, 03:21 AM	#3
JoelDali Legend Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 8,949	This is a great thread in the continuing mystery of what Roger really uses under the paint. Your findings are nearly spot on. However, the main difference we have found in our dissections at the Colorado School of Mines of both Roger's and the retail versions is the BLX Basalt Crystals found in Roger's are high end materials that sell on the Chicago exchange for $400 - 600 per ounce. While the retail uses cheaper BLX Crystals that are around $100 per ounce. The difference in the overall feel and control of the ball are light years difference between the 2. This is the secret to Rogi's near perfect game and why the average club player blows. __________________ There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.

09-16-2011, 05:11 AM	#6
R1CKSO Rookie Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 176	Hello, well I must say that Fed's specs are waaay different from a retail frame, starting with balance, a stock strung BLX90 or K90 has a balance of around 29~30.5 cms and I say around because Wilson's quality control just sucks, in Fed's setup, he uses a balance of 32.2cms and very high swingweight his racquets weigh 364grams, he uses 4 3/8 grip whith just one wilson pro over grip, 10 string savers in a criss cross patter on the 4th and 6th crosses, he strings with babolat VS team at around 47~52 lbs and luxilon alu power rough at around 44~49, that's hes real setup, so to bring a stock frame to this specs you MUST remove weight from the handle because if you just add lead to the top at 12 o'clock you'll never reach 364 grams, so the general idea, is he gets select stock frames that are ligther so Mr. Nate Ferguson can easily bring the weight to 364 and achieve the desired balance. Hope this helps! __________________ p e RF e c t HEAD Prestige classix x2 #3 grip, LXN BB original @ 57 Wilson Sensation @ 55, 354g, 32cm

09-16-2011, 02:42 PM	#9
R1CKSO Rookie Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 176	I don't mean to be rude or anything but I personally use the k90's I have 5 of them and before any customization was made to them, they all had a balance of around 30 to 31 cms but I must say that this was with an overgrip, they are very head light... __________________ p e RF e c t HEAD Prestige classix x2 #3 grip, LXN BB original @ 57 Wilson Sensation @ 55, 354g, 32cm