Comparison of Federer Djokovic Nadal racquets.

[big bang]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

My only evidence is empiric. I can't see the power/plow through on a 51RA frame he gets. I've hit with frames that soft, and there is no power there at all.

Hes a pro and you are not, ever thought about that?.
Im not a pro but I get lots of power from flexy frames, right now Im using a stick with RA of 49. So even if his frame is listed as 51 RA you can tell its not because you would have zero power with it, very logical

[big bang]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

Comparison of Federer Djokovic Nadal racquets.
Federer: 90 sq. in.

Joker: 98 sq. in.

Nadal: 100 sq in.

Total mass:
Federer: 357g-364 depending on surface, foe, etc.

Joker: 361g according to Greg Raven.

Nadal: 334-336g according to Greg Raven.

Swing wt.:
Federer: 338g according to Greg Raven but I think it's more like 355g with all that lead under the grommets.


Joker: 370g

Nadal: 355g according to Greg Raven.

RA:

Federer: 65

Joker: 51 according to Greg Raven but I think it's more like 65. FAIL!

Nadal: 65 with the apd original, the one he uses.

Lay up:

Federer: similar to stock, with higher quality crystals - FAIL!. ( He used to have a more open drill pattern with the ncode, at 9 crosses rather than 10 in sweet spot area, but has the same pattern as stock now.)

Joker: custom, head lay up no one can buy.

Nadal: original apd lay up with lead under the grommet at 12 and under the butt.

Tension:

Federer: 48.5/45.7lbs vs team/alu

Joker: 61/59lbs vs team/alu

Nadal: used to use duralast for ten years, now uses RPM at 54/52lbs.

Feel of the sticks:

Federer: like a muted stone, with high power in the small sweet spot and iffy outside of it.

Joker: depends on if his RA is 51 or 65 like the h22 he used to use- FAIL!. Rock like power and control.


Nadal: stiff, light, head heavy, with a soft thud on the RPM, lots of spin, tough to serve and get power flat wise.

Grip size:



Federer: L3 with over grip

Joker: L4 with two over grips

Nadal: L2 with over grip.

Set up for their game:


Federer: demanding sweet spot with lots of power, smaller head size makes his 16 x 19 more like an 18 x 20. - FAIL!

Joker: 18 x 20, Perfect for his game, flat out power, great control, higher tension yet softer on the cross for more snap back control, more lead than the others on the inside of the frame, going down to below the last cross by about an inch or so.


Nadal: Total spin set up, 16 x 19 with a spin string, small grip for more torque and quicker rotation, stiff RA for power, head heavy for spin.

Moment of inertia for each:

20.33 for Nadal
20.65 for Fed
21 for Joker, giving him more plow through, but tougher to get moving, more depth, but more risk of going long by an inch.


Similarities: I think all three are at an RA of about 65, including Joker, who is listed at 51. I think all three sw are close, except joker is a little higher, with more lead than the others. So if all three are at 65 Ra, and all three are sw at 355g-370g, that should tell us something. A high sw, and a high RA, allow for more power/plow through on shots. Fed's lower tension on a smaller head size gives the same snap back as Joker at 61/59lbs. Rafa has more snap back at 54/52lbs, in a 100 sq. in. apd frame, which would provide more spin. The lower snap back of Fed and Joker, in a tighter pattern, give them more depth/flatter trajectory and deeper landing shots than Rafa given the same force vectors applied to the bed. The vs team/alu combo, also gives more power than the rpm, which is a spin string, not a power string, and feels soft and thud like, not crisp and powerful as vs/alu feels, with RPMs hexagonal shape. Fed and Joker have power flat type set ups, and Rafa is all spin. But we already knew that by watching their games! Also the RA increases after the frames are strung, so their strung RAs are really about 2-3 points higher at 67-68 RA. That's a lot of pop for big hitters to control. Notice Murray at about 60-63 RA with his pt57A 16 x 19 alu/vs combo, strung at 62/61lbs, lighter mass at 347g, (he was at 364g but hurt his wrist) and his less powerful shots, with his more flexible frame and less powerful hybrid set up, as gut as cross is far less powerful than gut as main. (Hey, Murray, add the lead back on, switch the vs to the mains, and get a frame with an RA of 65, and talk to me about how much you like it. If you want to run with the big boys, you have to have the plow through, and they beat you up when it counts, as too many of your shots have not enough on them to counter the greater plow through of the stiffer RA, and gut as main.) Your equipment is holding you back and there is no way you are ever going to win a slam that way. Cut out the whining and the negativity, it only helps your opponents feel calmer and more sure about winning. So we will see if he has the heart to listen.
_____ fed lead tape
joker lead tape_____________

10 fails...

[5263]

Originally Posted by big bang

10 fails...

Why such a rude reply?
Do you guys have a history?
It's just a discussion on what folks may know about pro rackets. We all realize there are secrets we will never likely know.

[bhupaes]

Excellent info, Kiteboard... thanks.

[kiteboard]

It's easy to destroy and criticize, and hard to create and improve. Typing Fail means nothing, other than a low vocabulary and an inability to add, as he says 10 fails, yet types 4. Just another keyboard jerk on the forum with nothing to add, and lots to subtract. Here is the h22 joker used to use with an RA of 65: http://suppawat.multiply.com/reviews/item/86

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=djoko...1t:429,r:0,s:0 Fed frames are made with higher quality control, just as h22s are made in a diffferent room in China than stock kblades. Similar material, with higher quality control. The physical space inbetween the strings with a 90 sq. in. frame at 16 x19, is almost the same as a 98 sq. in. frame at 18 x 20, with a 10% smaller head size, the spaces are smaller, and grab the ball similarly as an 18 x20 in a 98in. frame. As for the RA, I am only guessing, due to the power joker has displayed, not possible with such a flexible frame in my experience.

[big bang]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

It's easy to destroy and criticize, and hard to create and improve. Typing Fail means nothing, other than a low vocabulary and an inability to add, as he says 10 fails, yet types 4. Just another keyboard jerk on the forum with nothing to add, and lots to subtract.

Its just a fact that you post wrong info, I pointed out your fails so you have a chance to correct them and not make a fool out of yourself. Why make a post full of wrong info?, thats exactly why ppl get confused on the internet - ppl posting BS all the time and says "I think it is like this".
You ever seen ppl typing "10 characters", in this case I think "10 fails" is more suitable.
In fact I know you are wrong and ppl should know that, if noone made that clear we would see ppl repost your fantasy specs all over the board. I can say that Fed is using a big bubba with 6.1 tour pj because theres no way he can get that power from a 90", but that doesnt make it correct does it?.
A guy your age should know better than this, its pure speculations and not facts. But I guess we should take your words for it because you "think" its like that.

[kiteboard]

Look at the pics of joker's h22s, and tell me who is failed. Just another fool on the forum. I guess you are going to tell me Fed's frames are the same quality control as yours?

[big bang]

Originally Posted by 5263

Why such a rude reply?
Do you guys have a history?
It's just a discussion on what folks may know about pro rackets. We all realize there are secrets we will never likely know.

Exactly! and if you dont know for sure, then dont make fantasy posts. It would make it much easier for ppl to find the info needed using the search function. Ppl on the board might take kiteboard´s word for it, in this case they shouldnt.

[kiteboard]

Have you played with an h22? NO. Have you hit with a pt57A? No. Do you have vs team mains? No. Fool!

[big bang]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

Look at the pics of joker's h22s, and tell me who is failed. Just another fool on the forum. I guess you are going to tell me Fed's frames are the same quality control as yours?

since you owned several H22´s according to yourself, you should be able to tell the difference yourself. I held Novak´s frame myself several times but I guess my eyes played a trick on me then.
Now you are talking QC, sure they are not but before you were talking about higher quality crystals, which one is it then?

[big bang]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

Have you played with an h22? NO. Have you hit with a pt57A? No. Do you have vs team mains? No. Fool!

LOL no great master never.
The difference between you and I is that I only post facts on subjects like this, since I have been with both wilson and head I would think that I used both frames (with all kinds of setups) quite a bit actually.

Come on guys lets give the old man a hand, you do know that he felt and did things that most ppl never will right, must be those magic pro stocks with vs team mains!!
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showp...3&postcount=26

[PED]

Originally Posted by Xizel

What he's saying is actually correct. If you understand racquet polarization, you'll understand why mass at 12 (and therefore HH) is better for more spin and whip.

Actually, his stick is not HH, it has a balance of roughly 33.3cm (surface dependent) which makes it 3pts HL

[kiteboard]

Here is what joker had to say about his own head frame: “I had some ups and downs, and I was really even changing some things in the racket at the start of the year in the tournaments, which was a little bit frustrating me.

“But I managed to find the good rhythm with the racket. It really takes time mentally to accept the change and it’s a big switch. I think it (the Head prototype) has more power. Maybe a little bit too much power in some moments.”


Does that sound like an RA of 51 to you?

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

It's easy to destroy and criticize, and hard to create and improve. Typing Fail means nothing, other than a low vocabulary and an inability to add, as he says 10 fails, yet types 4. Just another keyboard jerk on the forum with nothing to add, and lots to subtract. Here is the h22 joker used to use with an RA of 65: http://suppawat.multiply.com/reviews/item/86

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=djoko...1t:429,r:0,s:0 Fed frames are made with higher quality control, just as h22s are made in a diffferent room in China than stock kblades. Similar material, with higher quality control. The physical space inbetween the strings with a 90 sq. in. frame at 16 x19, is almost the same as a 98 sq. in. frame at 18 x 20, with a 10% smaller head size, the spaces are smaller, and grab the ball similarly as an 18 x20 in a 98in. frame. As for the RA, I am only guessing, due to the power joker has displayed, not possible with such a flexible frame in my experience.

So its not "higher quality crystals". And where do you have the info on higher quality control from?

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

2" different lead on frame to frame, side to side, is a lot of lead to explain factory differences in swing wt. I think some are set up head heavier for a reason, not that they all are matched to swing wt. fed lead tape. That's a lot of weight, 4" of lead on each side, 8" total, is about 7grams heavier, and Fed's frames are ranged from 357g-364g on purpose. It's not to balance out the specs, it's to give more plow through on some frames for serving/vs. returning. He switches them up.

Gamma quarter inch leadtape is 1/4 gram pr inch, so that would be about 2 grams. Very likely for matching purposes. If otherwise, I believe the rackets would be organized more systematically. Just my 2 c.
Also, I dont think anyone here has ever seen Federer change racket for serving/recieving.

[Fed Kennedy]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

The physical space inbetween the strings with a 90 sq. in. frame at 16 x19, is almost the same as a 98 sq. in. frame at 18 x 20, with a 10% smaller head size, the spaces are smaller, and grab the ball similarly as an 18 x20 in a 98in. frame.

This is just not true. The Fed frame has much bigger spaces in between the strings. His 90 is much more "open" than Jokers 98.

[kiteboard]

Originally Posted by Povl Carstensen

So its not "higher quality crystals". And where do you have the info on higher quality control from?

From a top stringer, on the grand slam stringing team for Wilson. The quality rooms are different in China for the pros sticks, and they use higher quality material according to him. In one tourny he strung 175 frames, more than any other stringer there.

[kiteboard]

Joker also said, "They made the frame the same.", re: his wilson h22 at an Ra of 65, and his new head frame. He also said he had to tinker with it to get it right on the stiffness.

[kiteboard]

Originally Posted by Fed Kennedy

This is just not true. The Fed frame has much bigger spaces in between the strings. His 90 is much more "open" than Jokers 98.

Let's get out the cameras!

[kiteboard]

Originally Posted by Povl Carstensen

Gamma quarter inch leadtape is 1/4 gram pr inch, so that would be about 2 grams. Very likely for matching purposes. If otherwise, I believe the rackets would be organized more systematically. Just my 2 c.
Also, I dont think anyone here has ever seen Federer change racket for serving/recieving.

He changes every 8 games. I've weighed the tape and it weighs more than that on a digital scale, but that's with the tape backing on. I may have gotten a bad read.