Comparison of Federer Djokovic Nadal racquets.

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

From a top stringer, on the grand slam stringing team for Wilson. The quality rooms are different in China for the pros sticks, and they use higher quality material according to him. In one tourny he strung 175 frames, more than any other stringer there.

Well Federers stringer says the racket is of the rack. But maybe he did not string 175 rackets in one tourney. Never heard of a "quality room". And you said "similar material, with higher quality control" a few posts back, confusing...

Originally Posted by kiteboard

He changes every 8 games. I've weighed the tape and it weighs more than that on a digital scale, but that's with the tape backing on. I may have gotten a bad read.

Yes he changes with the balls. He doesn't mix it up for serving/recieving as you said.
Yup, guess you got a bad read. And LOL at the tape backing making any serious difference, sorry.

[kiteboard]

Not talking about Nate. About a stringer in the grand slam rooms. He knows the truth about the quality control being higher for pro stock, and they use different rooms for that, according to him.

[CHOcobo]

got pics of their rackets side by side? i want to compare djoker next to rogers. i was at a retail store and held joker's racket that retail for 190. that so called 98 sq^2 in seems very very small. i don't know why but feels like as small has a 90. what ever it is it appears to be definitely smaller than my AG300 with 98.

[kiteboard]

There are pics in the forum, comparing joker's frame to a stock, showing diff. such as grommets, drill pattern, etc. The frame they are passing off as his is not close. I have put up the comparison here to make a point. Should not be a shock to see that none of them are using the stock frames or stock materials, other than Nadal with the apd orig., but they are telling you folks out there it's a cortex! The conclusion I made still stands: Joker RA is not 51, it's way stiffer. Murray is too light and too flexible, with the wrong string set up alu/vs team not enough pop or plow through. Nadal is too light on total mass, and as a result, too many of his shots are short, same with Murray. Murray is not stiff enough with the pt57A, for pop. What's just as obvious is, neither guy will change, regardless of their own results on tape, and both will regret it down the line badly. The gen pop doesn't care either, that they are being lied to, fooled into buying frames that are not as advertised, which is false advertising. I would like to file a class action suit on behalf of all the people being falsely led into buying the lies. Any lawyers out there with me? Look at what happened to Nike, when she sued them in SF. They were forced to admit their lies, and began to offer the Tiger ball to the gen pop. Head is the worst, with no one using what is advertised. Who cares about Prince, as they are going under anyway. Wilson quality control sucks outside the Fed room. Does no one care at all?

[Povl Carstensen]

"The Fed room"? Sorry but I will still believe that Federers stick is basically a stock K90 with a few grams of lead tape under the bumper and a custom grip. So no lawsuit on my part for that. However, with the advent of the BLX, its a bit more confusing...
And no, it was me talking about Nate. You talked about an anonymous stringer who probably never handled Federers racket.
But you are right about the quality control sucking in many brands. I just bought a BLX90 demo racket at my local store, and it weighs exactly the announced 339 grams unstrung. I wonder whether they make an effort to keep demo rackets on spec...

[big bang]

Originally Posted by Povl Carstensen

"The Fed room"? Sorry but I will still believe that Federers stick is basically a stock K90 with a few grams of lead tape under the bumper and a custom grip. So no lawsuit on my part for that. However, with the advent of the BLX, its a bit more confusing...
And no, it was me talking about Nate. You talked about an anonymous stringer who probably never handled Federers racket.
But you are right about the quality control sucking in many brands. I just bought a BLX90 demo racket at my local store, and it weighs exactly the announced 339 grams unstrung. I wonder whether they make an effort to keep demo rackets on spec...

Maybe demo frames come from "the Fed room" and are made of magic high quality crystals
BTW is Fed staying at "the Fed room" when he visits the wilson factory to try out new amazing crystals?

[vsbabolat]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

Joker also said, "They made the frame the same.", re: his wilson h22 at an Ra of 65, and his new head frame. He also said he had to tinker with it to get it right on the stiffness.

Actually Wilson copied the playing characteristics of the HEAD LM Radical MP for Nole's H22.


Then Djokovic signed with Wilson and:
"People from Wilson company tried to make agreement with me for five years and they "catch me" now finally. I don't know the specification of our agreement, because we didn't ratify that still, but I know it's much better convention then I had with Head. I tried to play with 15-20 different models of Wilson and no one is conform to me. Then they made a copy of my Head racquet, and he is absolutely the same."
http://www.protennisfan.com/2005/12/...ic_signs_.html

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

Originally Posted by tlm

You are saying that hh gives more whip? It is the complete opposite, hh gives less whip while obviously hl makes it easier for high racket head speed and whip.

If I gave you a racket like a stock n90 which is headlight and has most of it's weight centered lower on the frame, then gave you a custom weighted racket that had a majority of the weight at 12, some at 9+3 for stability, and some under the buttcap (so the racket won't feel like it'll fly out of your hand), and you had the technique to easily swing and accelerate both rackets through the ball, you would find the custom racket with weight at 12 would feel like it has more response on the ball and more whip THROUGH the contact. (of course, both rackets will be of equal static weight, and can even be of equal balance if you prefer, but you'll notice one feels significantly head heavier than the other)

The thing with headlight rackets, that although they're easier to maneuver around (like on volleys), they don't really go through the ball as well unless they have some serious mass to the racket. The easiest way to cut down on static weight while alleviating this issue is simply to put the mass at 12 so the racket tip has more inertia through contact. You'll basically notice once you get the racket going, it basically does all the work for you. Whereas if I got any light+headlight racket (which there are plenty of), I can "whip" it all I want, but I'm basically doing all the work, so I have to put more effort into it myself in order to generate the same type of ball which basically is no longer a "whip" and more of an aggravated slap.


On another note, isn't it common knowledge by now that Federer's sticks from Wilson are handpicked for better quality control? It could be a rumor but it's the most sensible statement if he's using a stock racket from Wilson of all companies... And often the most simply reasoning is how it really is... At least in the world of Sherlock Holmes...

[aimr75]

Originally Posted by xFullCourtTenniSx

On another note, isn't it common knowledge by now that Federer's sticks from Wilson are handpicked for better quality control?

great QC.. all different applications of lead

[big bang]

This thread just shows once again how clueless Kiteboard is on this matter, please move on to your next conspiracy theori now, thanks!.

[DownTheLineWith90]

Originally Posted by Povl Carstensen

Gamma quarter inch leadtape is 1/4 gram pr inch, so that would be about 2 grams. Very likely for matching purposes. If otherwise, I believe the rackets would be organized more systematically. Just my 2 c.
Also, I dont think anyone here has ever seen Federer change racket for serving/recieving.

Wait...
8 inches?
That's only 4 grams, isnt it?

[tlm]

Originally Posted by xFullCourtTenniSx

If I gave you a racket like a stock n90 which is headlight and has most of it's weight centered lower on the frame, then gave you a custom weighted racket that had a majority of the weight at 12, some at 9+3 for stability, and some under the buttcap (so the racket won't feel like it'll fly out of your hand), and you had the technique to easily swing and accelerate both rackets through the ball, you would find the custom racket with weight at 12 would feel like it has more response on the ball and more whip THROUGH the contact. (of course, both rackets will be of equal static weight, and can even be of equal balance if you prefer, but you'll notice one feels significantly head heavier than the other)

The thing with headlight rackets, that although they're easier to maneuver around (like on volleys), they don't really go through the ball as well unless they have some serious mass to the racket. The easiest way to cut down on static weight while alleviating this issue is simply to put the mass at 12 so the racket tip has more inertia through contact. You'll basically notice once you get the racket going, it basically does all the work for you. Whereas if I got any light+headlight racket (which there are plenty of), I can "whip" it all I want, but I'm basically doing all the work, so I have to put more effort into it myself in order to generate the same type of ball which basically is no longer a "whip" and more of an aggravated slap.


On another note, isn't it common knowledge by now that Federer's sticks from Wilson are handpicked for better quality control? It could be a rumor but it's the most sensible statement if he's using a stock racket from Wilson of all companies... And often the most simply reasoning is how it really is... At least in the world of Sherlock Holmes...

I know that more weight in the head will have better plow through, but to me you are getting whip and plow through mixed up. By whip I take that as being easy to get fast RHS and whip the racket quickly.

You say that if you had the technique to easily swing either racket you would get more whip through with the heavier racket. Which may be true but thats just it I would not be able to get the heavier one going as easy or as I think of it whip easily, especially when rushed playing points.

When I have tried more HH balance it definitely plows through the ball more and gives more power to the ball, but is also much tougher to whip quickly. To me these are 2 different subjects.

[Povl Carstensen]

Originally Posted by DownTheLineWith90

Wait...
8 inches?
That's only 4 grams, isnt it?

Yes with two strips of 1/4 inch. But the length varies for matching purposes (from about 4 to about 8 inches), so it is between 2 and 4 grams I would say.

[Bartelby]

It's probable that the cost of building a better machine to get an exact specification is not worth the cost for the average player nor the cost of customization for the professional, so they simply don't and wan't invest in such machinery.

Originally Posted by aimr75

great QC.. all different applications of lead

[tlm]

Originally Posted by xFullCourtTenniSx

If I gave you a racket like a stock n90 which is headlight and has most of it's weight centered lower on the frame, then gave you a custom weighted racket that had a majority of the weight at 12, some at 9+3 for stability, and some under the buttcap (so the racket won't feel like it'll fly out of your hand), and you had the technique to easily swing and accelerate both rackets through the ball, you would find the custom racket with weight at 12 would feel like it has more response on the ball and more whip THROUGH the contact. (of course, both rackets will be of equal static weight, and can even be of equal balance if you prefer, but you'll notice one feels significantly head heavier than the other)

The thing with headlight rackets, that although they're easier to maneuver around (like on volleys), they don't really go through the ball as well unless they have some serious mass to the racket. The easiest way to cut down on static weight while alleviating this issue is simply to put the mass at 12 so the racket tip has more inertia through contact. You'll basically notice once you get the racket going, it basically does all the work for you. Whereas if I got any light+headlight racket (which there are plenty of), I can "whip" it all I want, but I'm basically doing all the work, so I have to put more effort into it myself in order to generate the same type of ball which basically is no longer a "whip" and more of an aggravated slap.


On another note, isn't it common knowledge by now that Federer's sticks from Wilson are handpicked for better quality control? It could be a rumor but it's the most sensible statement if he's using a stock racket from Wilson of all companies... And often the most simply reasoning is how it really is... At least in the world of Sherlock Holmes...

I am using a light enough racket that I can add some weight to it so I will add some lead and try your suggestion.

[marosmith]

What this tells me is really pros use softer rackets when compared to the retail versions because they don't need forgiveness on off center hits while sacrificing feel and comfort.

[Rogael Naderer]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

Let's get out the cameras!

I'm inclined to agree, I thinks Fed's string spacing is more open than Djokovic's and similar to Nadal's, It's this wide spacing in a 90sq" frame that makes the Wilson Six. One quite unique in its feel and spin potential.

[Rogael Naderer]

Originally Posted by big bang

This thread just shows once again how clueless Kiteboard is on this matter, please move on to your next conspiracy theori now, thanks!.

Theory?

There's a word for people like you, but you may not understand its meaning given your limited vocabulary.

[Rogael Naderer]

Originally Posted by marosmith

What this tells me is really pros use softer rackets when compared to the retail versions because they don't need forgiveness on off center hits while sacrificing feel and comfort.

Could you tell me how you got to your weight and balance on your sticks?

Your weight and balance is really similar to mine as well as your play style, I have lead at 12 and in the butt cap as well as a leather grip to bring mine to 12.4 ounces and 320mm balance.

Feel like a little extra off centre stability could help me but I hate the feeling of lead at 3 and 9.

[marosmith]

Originally Posted by Rogael Naderer

Could you tell me how you got to your weight and balance on your sticks?

Your weight and balance is really similar to mine as well as your play style, I have lead at 12 and in the butt cap as well as a leather grip to bring mine to 12.4 ounces and 320mm balance.

Feel like a little extra off centre stability could help me but I hate the feeling of lead at 3 and 9.

Silicone in handle and lead at 12. Very polarized. PT57a pallet is very light which allows for that.