The Best multivitamin

[gatorbait01]

Originally Posted by TennisCoachFLA

Protein supplements and multivitamins are simply excreted by the body. A balanced and healthy diet is all that is needed. If your doctor runs a lab panel that shows a deficiency, then you would need supplementation. But the vast majority of us are just fine without any of that stuff.

Creatine is also a myth and in your head. It simply causes you to retain water. The body can not process the massive amounts of creatine in a supplement.

In a double blind study, creatine had no more effect than a placebo in regards to improving endurance. Studies also found that combining with caffeine, common in supplements, completely obliterates all effects of creatine.

^^ You have obviously never lifted weights before if you don't think protein supplements and creatine help. Either that or you eat about 180 grams of protein from red meat every day.

[Power Player]

Yeah I feel like a lot of people don't lift as much now or something if they are this anti supplement. I have a good friend who works at an NFL training facility and he has always been a fitness freak and has always trained with certain supps. I can see if you play tennis 2-3 times a week at a medium pace and that's it, not needing or taking supplementation seriously.

Pro tennis players actually take a lot of things that are far beyond what we would need. There are all kinds of things out there that help you focus, give you more sustained energy, etc. The majority are illegal, but they are being used all the time.

As for creatine. I know it works for me. You can't fake having your bench go up 25 pounds in 2 weeks..BUT I also don't know how long it works for and I definitely know it is something you should cycle. I also personally don't take it anymore. I did in the past and respected what it did for me, but I don't see it as something I need, especially as a guy who wants to stay light on the courts and not get bulky from water retention and gains.

[Ramon]

Wow! I've never read so much negative stuff about Creatine from guys who are into sports. Creatine is relatively cheap compared to other supplements and the only health risk I heard about it is possible kidney failure, which can be monitored through urine testing. If you have too much creatinine in your urine, you can cut back on protein and creatine.

When I was about 30 years old, my bench press plateaued at just under 200 lbs. I tried to bench 200 and I couldn't get it up all the way. After I started taking creatine, within a month I was working up to 225. After about a year I maxed out at 305 lbs (I made sure I had a guy watching me do it). Over the years my lifestyle, fitness routine, and supplements have changed on and off regularly. We all go through periods where we don't feel as strong in the gym as we should. Very often, that coincided with stopping creatine for a couple weeks.

For those who say that the effect is temporary, won't work past the loading phase, etc., I beg to differ. Strength training is all about intensity and focus. Creatine not only makes you stronger, it also improves your attitude in the gym and allows you to make your workouts more intense. If part of the reason is that the heavier weights makes you more motivated, then so be it. Having more intense workouts in the gym on a regular basis gives you permanent and lasting results.

Creatine is not a miracle supplement that will make you stronger and stronger the more you take, but aside from illegal drugs, it's the best one out there for strength. To get the most out of it, you need to be an intense warrior in the gym. This means doing forced reps while someone is spotting you for the last 2-3 that you can't do yourself, negative reps, supersets, muscle confusion, etc. If you're expecting something that will make you stronger and stronger while you do easy, casual workouts in the gym, you'll be sorely dissappointed.

[Power Player]

I'm personally an aggressive lifter and worked out for years with a guy who does fitness events..etc. I know creatine works, I just don't like how it bulks me up almost too fast. That was all I was saying, even though I know you are addressing more posters than myself.

Without a doubt it has been one of the most used natural lifting supplements for 20 years now. It works. You have to cycle it, and your body can build up a tolerance as well.

[r2473]

All right, we need a poll about supplements. That will decide everything for all times in TT world (as polls always do). Sounds like creatine, protein powder, multi's, fish oil, and vitamins C&D are GOAT, but we'll have to see.

Who wants to make it?

Probably what we really need is a thread where "supplement" aficianado's discuss the pros / cons of various supplements from various sources. What you take and the benefits. A thread where no negative post about supplements are allowed. (i.e. saying they are all crap, but it would be allowed to say this one is better than that one).

[Kevin T]

Originally Posted by Power Player

Yeah I feel like a lot of people don't lift as much now or something if they are this anti supplement. I have a good friend who works at an NFL training facility and he has always been a fitness freak and has always trained with certain supps. I can see if you play tennis 2-3 times a week at a medium pace and that's it, not needing or taking supplementation seriously.

Pro tennis players actually take a lot of things that are far beyond what we would need. There are all kinds of things out there that help you focus, give you more sustained energy, etc. The majority are illegal, but they are being used all the time.

As for creatine. I know it works for me. You can't fake having your bench go up 25 pounds in 2 weeks..BUT I also don't know how long it works for and I definitely know it is something you should cycle. I also personally don't take it anymore. I did in the past and respected what it did for me, but I don't see it as something I need, especially as a guy who wants to stay light on the courts and not get bulky from water retention and gains.

It's not impossible to perform at your peak without supplements. As I said, I played college football for four years using nothing but a post-workout 2:1 carb/protein shake. I'm now 37 yo and have ruptured my L4-5 twice but still keep plugging along. I basically do crossfit-style workouts these days, 4-5 days/week. I play more squash than tennis these days (which is far more taxing than tennis ever was for me and I play 5.0 in California), probably two days per week at a pretty high level. I ski as much as I can in the winter and trail run 1-2 days/week. I go about 6'3" 225# these days, not bad given I have a 3yo and 1 1/2 yo. Like I said, there's not a soul on here working out as hard as college and Olympic athletes. There's also plenty of guys in our prisons that would put us all to shame eating nothing but USDA commodity leftovers. Legal supplements can be a piece of the pie, albeit a very small piece compared to diet/training/rest and recovery. If we're talking illegal supplements, that's a whole other ballgame.

[Power Player]

Yes, I am not saying they are going to change your life, but they have improved mine.

But an example..I get calf cramps easily..always have throughout my athletic career. I have been supplementing Magnesium which has cut them down dramatically. Also switching to Cytomax over supermarket sports drinks helps as well. I would consider this supplementing.

[tinyman]

Originally Posted by TennisCoachFLA

Protein supplements and multivitamins are simply excreted by the body. A balanced and healthy diet is all that is needed. If your doctor runs a lab panel that shows a deficiency, then you would need supplementation. But the vast majority of us are just fine without any of that stuff.

Creatine is also a myth and in your head. It simply causes you to retain water. The body can not process the massive amounts of creatine in a supplement.

In a double blind study, creatine had no more effect than a placebo in regards to improving endurance. Studies also found that combining with caffeine, common in supplements, completely obliterates all effects of creatine.

I don't agree with your initial assertion, however I do agree with the majority of your first paragraph. Your premise is incorrect, however the remainder of it has seemed to be by and large true.

Creatine is absorbed and converted to phosphocreatine (PCr) - basic biochemistry. PCr is later available as a phosphate donor for the ADP->ATP conversion, again basic biochemistry. That's all creatine does. It is phosphorylated for later use, and readily gives up phosphate ions when necessary. It's pretty easy to see here why putting someone on a treadmill until exhaustion won't show much difference - a typical method for test of endurance. Using a flawed test is, in the words of Scott Adams, like trying to find unicorns in your sock drawer - a flawed test proves little. Bloating/water retention is a normal side effect - however for some reason we always associate that negatively.

That said, the mentality of 'creatine makes me stronger' is completely erroneous. It is readily available from the above that this is simply not the case. The abundance of phosphate for the Krebs cycle does not cause this effect. The feeling of being 'larger' is typically due to the aforementioned bloat, primarily associated with the monohydrate form (as compared to say, a chelation with malate salt, which typically has not produced the same effect).


Caffeine has not been shown to lower PCr levels inside of the cell to my knowledge - if such evidence exists, please show it. If that was true, every time I had a caffeine source (or presumably, one of the dimethyl metabolites), I would wipe out the naturally occurring PCr that my body continually generates (low levels of PCr are normal). Of course, there is still no medical evidence that this occurs... I think the confusion comes because caffeine, as a stimulant, stimulates everything - including your kidneys & bladder - and does cause increased urination.

[Kevin T]

Originally Posted by Talker

Almost forgot, here's the multi I'm taking for now.

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Suppleme...ulti%20vitamin

How have you been, Talker? Haven't seen you around the health forums for a while. Hope all is well.

[r2473]

This is the only supplement I trust. Reviews are solid.

http://www.firminite.com/penis-enlargement-pills.php

[Kevin T]

Originally Posted by r2473

This is the only supplement I trust. Reviews are solid.

http://www.firminite.com/penis-enlargement-pills.php

Looks like a winner! My hatred of supplements also "extends" to bedroom enhancement. I set up a buffet platter of oysters on the half shell, saffron, elk antlers and tiger units next to the bed. Works like a charm. Who needs firminite when you can enjoy a tasty tiger pipe and get the same benefits.

[Power Player]

R2, you're trying way too hard.

*snare roll and bow*

[r2473]

I respect your diligence Kev in keep the buffet next to your bed, but my life is a bit busy for that. I prefer the convenience of Firminite.

And, Firminite contains CATUABA BARK EXTRACT and TRIBULUS TERRESTRIS. I can feel it working (and so can she.....tee,hee )

[Kevin T]

Originally Posted by Power Player

R2, you're trying way too hard.

*snare roll and bow*

r2's posts are like pizza, beer and getting busy...even when they're bad, they're still pretty good.

[Talker]

Originally Posted by Kevin T

How have you been, Talker? Haven't seen you around the health forums for a while. Hope all is well.

Hey Kevin, been around mostly in the tennis discussions for a laugh now and then.

I'm still pushing my propaganda as usual and not getting anywhere as usual. Lol.

Good to see you stop by once in a while to restore order....

[r2473]

Originally Posted by Kevin T

r2's posts are like pizza, beer and getting busy...even when they're bad, they're still pretty good.

So I'm more like the Rolling Stones than the Beatles?

[Kevin T]

Originally Posted by r2473

So I'm more like the Rolling Stones than the Beatles?

No way. Ringo all the way.

[SeasonedNovice]

My fav. "Multi Vitamin" is Chlorophyll and Brewers Yeast. Go ahead and laugh at me, but see who runs out of energy quicker. It's loaded with minerals, Electrolytes, trace minerals, all your vitamins ect.

[Pbarrow]

Originally Posted by Power Player

Yes, I am not saying they are going to change your life, but they have improved mine.

But an example..I get calf cramps easily..always have throughout my athletic career. I have been supplementing Magnesium which has cut them down dramatically. Also switching to Cytomax over supermarket sports drinks helps as well. I would consider this supplementing.

Just want to say kudos and thanks to you PP. I had a couple really nagging joint issues in my wrist and a knee that i just couldn't shake. Based on some internet research but mostly on account of this thread I bought a bottle of orange triad. I matter of days after starting taking them I feel better! Have you made any other supplemental discoveries? I am 45 years old and trying to mange the degradation and keep playing tough! Anyhow, Thanks again.