Coaching? What do you think?

[PushyPushster]

Well, I beat him. Not through skill - it was ugly tennis on both sides. He was a young dude and my theory is that Saturday night was spent with booze and women. He wasn't so hung over that he forgot about my backhand, though.

Originally Posted by rjw

Just get some serious help with yout backhand and move on

Well, sure - of course I'll get a nice backhand. And while I'm out on the courts I'll also get one of those 120mph serves I've always wanted. The one that kicks up real high - those are just tremendous.

And a pony. Definitely want a pony too.

[rjw]

Originally Posted by PushyPushster

Well, I beat him. Not through skill - it was ugly tennis on both sides. He was a young dude and my theory is that Saturday night was spent with booze and women. He wasn't so hung over that he forgot about my backhand, though.



Well, sure - of course I'll get a nice backhand. And while I'm out on the courts I'll also get one of those 120mph serves I've always wanted. The one that kicks up real high - those are just tremendous.

And a pony. Definitely want a pony too.

A pony could be a lot of work!!

What I'm getting at is that you know that your bh sucks and your opponents will as well.

So why not make a dedicated effort to at least make it half way respectable.

My bh sucks, but used to be a lot worse. I can rip the ball inconsistenlty, but if I establish it early in a match, many opponents won't hit to it very often.

It can be very frustrating to go down repeatedly due to a weakness that should be your number 1 priority. Ball machine really helps after some instruction. Hit several hundred and within a few sessions, you'll see a big difference..again...AFTER you get some tips, so as to not refine bad technique.

Then play for $$ and buy that pony

[rjw]

Or you could put up some video here and suffer thru the criticism. I've read some excellent advice on this forum that has helped my strokes.

Plenty of people here willing to help, if you want it

[PushyPushster]

rjw - Tennis truly is the most egalitarian of sports. There's a belief that you should always be able to be the equal of the Really Good Guy. All you need is practice. There's no consideration given to athletic talent. When you're on a baseball team there isn't anywhere near that kind of belief. Some people have the natural ability to smash home runs over the fence and some people don't. No one ever looks at the mediocre dude and says,

"Hey, why don't you learn to hit home runs like Little Barry Bonds Jr? You're kind of stinking up the joint."

Anyhow, the reason I don't make huge improvements to my backhand is because of Time and Athletic Talent. They are both working against me.

Originally Posted by rjw

Or you could put up some video here and suffer thru the criticism.

Heh. It will be a frosty day in Hades before that happens. I already know I don't hit a single stroke properly. Also, I'm okay with being the utility infielder of tennis.

[Caesar]

Originally Posted by PushyPushster

Tennis truly is the most egalitarian of sports.

lol. You've got to be kidding. Tennis is expensive to learn, expensive to play and traditionally the preserve of the upper classes.

Hard to find a more elitist sport out there, really. Maybe snow skiing and polo.

[rjw]

Originally Posted by PushyPushster

rjw - Tennis truly is the most egalitarian of sports. There's a belief that you should always be able to be the equal of the Really Good Guy. All you need is practice. There's no consideration given to athletic talent. When you're on a baseball team there isn't anywhere near that kind of belief. Some people have the natural ability to smash home runs over the fence and some people don't. No one ever looks at the mediocre dude and says,

"Hey, why don't you learn to hit home runs like Little Barry Bonds Jr? You're kind of stinking up the joint."

Anyhow, the reason I don't make huge improvements to my backhand is because of Time and Athletic Talent. They are both working against me.



Heh. It will be a frosty day in Hades before that happens. I already know I don't hit a single stroke properly. Also, I'm okay with being the utility infielder of tennis.

Using your analogy....some might never hit home runs, but still get a lot of short hits.

Sounds like you are resigned to NOT having a bh.....I take stuff like this as a challenge and a motivation to at least TRY to improve.

A deep slice that stays lowhan a short ballthat sits up, or a mishit, even though many here might boohoo the deep slice??

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by Caesar

lol. You've got to be kidding. Tennis is expensive to learn, expensive to play and traditionally the preserve of the upper classes.

Hard to find a more elitist sport out there, really. Maybe snow skiing and polo.

You are living in the wrong century and certainly not in Kalifornia, where there are public courts going begging, instruction at community colleges, and cheap clinics available to non-club members. There are fantastic facilities, even indoors, that offer memberships at no initiation specials and very reasonable rates. Where are you, Iran, Albania, Cuba or Venezuela?

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by PushyPushster

Anyhow, the reason I don't make huge improvements to my backhand is because of Time and Athletic Talent. They are both working against me.

The main reason probably is due to poor instruction by the majority or teaching pros who have no clue how to teach tennis and are only interested in emptying your wallet. If you had a coach who knew how to teach you could vastly improve your game and derive much more satisfaction from it. Coaches who know how to teach the sport are few and far between, but students who appreciate a great coach and are coachable are even rarer.

[Caesar]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

You are living in the wrong century and certainly not in Kalifornia, where there are public courts going begging, instruction at community colleges, and cheap clinics available to non-club members. There are fantastic facilities, even indoors, that offer memberships at no initiation specials and very reasonable rates. Where are you, Albania?

Compared to something like soccer, where all you require is a ball, some friends and an open space? Or basketball, where you need a ball, some friends and a hoop that's available in every public park?

Court hire, racquets, balls, lessons. Face it, it's an expensive sport compared to most. There's a reason you don't see kids with tennis racquets on every corner in Harlem.

[spiderman123]

Originally Posted by eliza

Backhand= rovescio

This said, I see coaching all the time, even in USTA matches (coaches up on gallery making hand signals). It sounds like you played for fun, not ATP points.
Maybe you can ask a re-match?

Cue: Rocky theme.

[Delano]

This is the bit from the usta rules for league play:

2.01D COACHING. Coaching will only be permitted during the rest period only if the scoring method is the best of three tiebreak sets and there is a 10-minute rest period between the second and third sets.

(here's the link: http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/2...ns%20FINAL.pdf)

Of course, you can't prove that coaching was going on, and I don't actually know the rules about long, hushed conversations (or conversations in a different language), though I'd guess that if coaching isn't allowed, then extensive, one-on-one conversations with one of the players that nobody can hear are also not allowed. I'd guess that these guys just don't know the rules around coaching. If you don't mind going straight at them, just get their attention and inform them of the coaching rule. If I were doing this, I'd try to be as matter of fact about it as possible - don't apologize for informing them of the rule, but don't accuse them of breaking the rule either. Just state it, and wait for them to respond. They may deny that coaching was going on, but that will often put an end to it.

[rjw]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

You are living in the wrong century and certainly not in Kalifornia, where there are public courts going begging, instruction at community colleges, and cheap clinics available to non-club members. There are fantastic facilities, even indoors, that offer memberships at no initiation specials and very reasonable rates. Where are you, Iran, Albania, Cuba or Venezuela?

LaLa land, I think

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by Caesar

Compared to something like soccer, where all you require is a ball, some friends and an open space? Or basketball, where you need a ball, some friends and a hoop that's available in every public park?

Court hire, racquets, balls, lessons. Face it, it's an expensive sport compared to most. There's a reason you don't see kids with tennis racquets on every corner in Harlem.

Free courts at muni parks, playgrounds, and nearly every high school and state and community colleges. Rackets lying unused in nearly every closet or a brand new prince graphite at the Goodwill Store for $5 like a kid I know just scored or millions of sticks for next to nothing at garage sales every weekend.

I've given loads of my sticks and equipment away for free to kids tennis non-profit groups. Tennis balls, on sale for $1.50 to $1.99 and I can't give my hardly used ones away for free. The reason you don't see kids in Harlem with tennis rackets is because it would be like carrying a violin, you would kid your azz kicked for being a sissy. Free lessons by non-profits like YTA or NJTL.

Caeasr, your assertion doesn't hold water at all. Maybe you need to get out of Harlem and move to Long Beach, or Compton. There's plenty of shovel ready, TARP and gov money available for tennis lessons and equipment and I believe it comes under the solar energy give away program too. Maybe you could rangle some money away from Charlie Rangle or borrow some from some drug dealers or pimps on the corner. They have coin to spare since they are too poor to qualify to pay taxes.

[Caesar]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

Free courts at muni parks, playgrounds, and nearly every high school and state and community colleges. Rackets lying unused or in nearly every closet or a brand new prince graphite at the Goodwill Store for $5 like a kid I know just scored or for next to nothing at a garage sale. I've given loads of my sticks and other equipment away for free to kids tennis non-profit groups. Tennis balls, on sale for $1.50 to $1.99 and I can't give my hardly used ones away for free. The reason you don't seen kids in Harlem with tennis rackets is because it would be like carrying a violin, you would kid your azz kicked for being a sissy. Free lessons by non-profits like YTA or NJTL.

Caeasr, your assertion doesn't hold water at all. Maybe you need to get out of Harlem and move to Long Beach, or Compton. There's plenty of shovel ready gov money available for tennis lessons and equipment and I believe it comes under the solar energy give away program too. Maybe you could rangle some money away from Charlie Rangle or borrow some from some drug dealers or pimps on the corner, they have coin to spare since they are too poor to qualify to pay taxes.

Seriously, get a clue. You can walk down to the park and learn to play basketball or soccer by feel, and by watching TV with your mates. You only need to own one ball between you. Tennis requires courts, nets, racquets, balls, which all come at a cost, even if you can get them cheaply. You can't learn to play properly without coaching, and free coaching in thin on the ground. A child who learns to play tennis without formal instruction will never be plucked out of the slums for a pro career.

The irony is that you're using US examples to show how tennis isn't an elitist sport. How popular is it in the barrios in Argentina? Why is it that the successful pro tennis players from Europe and South America almost all come from very affluent families? Heck, even most US players are from very comfortable backgrounds. The socioeconomic background of pro tennis players is miles above most other sports.

Get your head out of your arse and take a look around.

Originally Posted by rjw

LaLa land, I think

Toddle off back to talking about racquet tension, little man.

[rjw]

Originally Posted by tennis tom

Free courts at muni parks, playgrounds, and nearly every high school and state and community colleges. Rackets lying unused in nearly every closet or a brand new prince graphite at the Goodwill Store for $5 like a kid I know just scored or millions of sticks for next to nothing at garage sales every weekend.

I've given loads of my sticks and equipment away for free to kids tennis non-profit groups. Tennis balls, on sale for $1.50 to $1.99 and I can't give my hardly used ones away for free. The reason you don't see kids in Harlem with tennis rackets is because it would be like carrying a violin, you would kid your azz kicked for being a sissy. Free lessons by non-profits like YTA or NJTL.

Caeasr, your assertion doesn't hold water at all. Maybe you need to get out of Harlem and move to Long Beach, or Compton. There's plenty of shovel ready, TARP and gov money available for tennis lessons and equipment and I believe it comes under the solar energy give away program too. Maybe you could rangle some money away from Charlie Rangle or borrow some from some drug dealers or pimps on the corner. They have coin to spare since they are too poor to qualify to pay taxes.

Tom, don't bother , this guy's a total whacko

He's too caught up in commenting on other men's facial hair....

[PushyPushster]

Originally Posted by rjw

Sounds like you are resigned to NOT having a bh....

Pretty much. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to spend a lot more time on the courts than I do. In the end, though, time is a finite resource. Kids, in particular, tend to eat up that resource very quickly.

Btw, I hope I'm not coming off as a total pessimist. Over the last 5 years I've gone from 2.5 to 4.0, but from a purely "athletic talent" standpoint, I just can't see myself getting much better than 4.0 ... even with a decent backhand.

Originally Posted by Caesar

lol. You've got to be kidding. Tennis is expensive to learn, expensive to play and traditionally the preserve of the upper classes.

I was talking more about the concept that everyone could be equal in talent rather than monetary resources. Having said that, it's not expensive where I'm located. For $75 you can sign up for a season at the local tennis center which not only gets you on a team and pays for your court fees, but also gets you 7 group lessons with the team. That's a fantastic value. If you don't want the group lessons it's significantly cheaper.

Originally Posted by tennis tom

The main reason probably is due to poor instruction by the majority or teaching pros who have no clue how to teach tennis and are only interested in emptying your wallet.

Nope, can't blame the pros. After my first two seasons I quite the group lessons at the local tennis center. That's on my head. They were probably just about to teach me how to hit a proper backhand, too.

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by rjw

Tom, don't bother , this guy's a total whacko

Originally Posted by Caesar

...Seriously, get a clue.

...Get your head out of your arse and take a look around.


...Toddle off back to talking about racquet tension, little man.

Caear, I replied to you with NO personal attack, or name calling but since you are so care-free with them, I have no qualms replying in kind, but want to make the record clear--I didn't start the name calling and personal attack, you did! Your argument is so weak that you must resort to them.

I appreciate RJW's heads and his correct assessment of your mental state but YOU have attacked a game and sport that the people who post here enjoy and love. You're biting the hand that feeds you. Why are you here dropping your bombs and personal attacks instead of at a soccer or basketball forum where you could contribute something positive? Since you feel tennis is such an elitist activity only for the privlidged, why do you participate in it and where do you play?

In fact it is the opposite, it's great champions in the past and the present for the most part, came from humble or middle-class roots and not from the wealthy--Paris Hilton has never won a sanctioned tennis tournament to my recollection nor many from the royal families of the planet.

You're totally inaccurate assessment of the people who participate in the sport of tennis and the costs of equipment and venues, needs answering and I will (and I hope others will also) when I have the time. Since I need to go to work now, and am not able to play polo today as I would much prefer. My rebuttal to your ignorant and unfounded assertions will have to wait until later and at my leisure, which is very limited.

Your ignorance, founded in your misguided social politics, and personal anger is so deep, it would take a book to reply to, more time than I can afford at this moment.