Another Instance Of Officiating Error?

[Douggo]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Right. They're "entitled to a call." That doesn't mean they are entitled to a point.

I mean, unless the umpire said, "Player B, what is your call?" and Player B refused to make one, I can't think of an argument for loss of point.

I would assume as player B, you don't have the luxury of calling a ball out after it has bounced twice on your side.

[NoQuarter]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Right. They're "entitled to a call." That doesn't mean they are entitled to a point.

I mean, unless the umpire said, "Player B, what is your call?" and Player B refused to make one, I can't think of an argument for loss of point.

Yeah...I have never had anyone claim the point....just that they needed a call.

[kylebarendrick]

I would assume (under the "calling own shots out" provision of the code) that player A could simply have called thir own shot out at that point and all would have been right in the world. I agree with jlyon that there is something missing in this story.

[Big_Dangerous]

Originally Posted by Maui19

Wow. I often don't call or signal an opponents ball that is clearly out (like several feet long/wide, or blasted into the fence). I feel like that is rubbing it in. However maybe I should make a hand signal regardless of how ridiculously out a ball is.

I also think Cindy asks a good question about officials awarding a point for code violations where the rules don't specify a penalty.

I feel the exact same way. And I get annoyed when opponents ask on balls like that because I'm like "dude you can't feel that you sprayed the **** out of that ball nor could you tell that it sailed several feet long/wide?!?!"

If it's relatively close I can understand and I always make the call one way or the other.

But balls that aren't even close really don't need a visual or audible signal...

[beernutz]

Originally Posted by Nellie

I think that is a terrible call - the ITF rule 24 say that a player loses the point when the ball lands out. There is no ambiguity. The Code (which operate under the rules) paragraph 15 says you are "entitled" to an prompt audible/visible call, but the paragraph 13 of the Code also, mentions that opponents "should" call their own shots out when obvious.

Code 13 and code 15 are not addressing the same topic. 13 is referring to a player calling their own shots out while 15 is referring to calling an opponent's shots out.

I do agree with you that this is a terrible call by the official. The remedy for not getting something to which you are entitled during a point is not necessarily for the other party to lose the point.

[Douggo]

For those of you who don't think loss of point is a fair penalty for failure to make a prompt call, what would you propose would be a fair penalty?

Also, do the roving officials make line calls? If player B had returned the ball, could the official have called it out?

EDIT: From USTA Friend At Court:

FAC Comment VII.D-4: A Roving Umpire should never overrule an extremely
close ball. Players are playing under The Code and are expected to give their
opponents the benefit of the doubt. Therefore, a Roving Umpire should be
reluctant to call a ball out that has been played as good. The overrule of an out
ball that has been played as good may be made only when a Roving Official is
stationed on court.


So I think most of us (not including myself) have been assuming that the official was right there, saw the ball clearly out, and chose to call "failure to make prompt call", rather than calling the ball. It does look like the official would have the discretion to call the ball out.

[Big_Dangerous]

Originally Posted by Douggo

For those of you who don't think loss of point is a fair penalty for failure to make a prompt call, what would you propose would be a fair penalty?

I wasn't there so I have no idea how far out the ball was or was not. However, if it was as far out as people have made it seem, including the op, then that's a time when the official should just mention to the player that you're supposed to signal the ball was out. A simple warning should suffice. I mean pros get a time violation warning before incurring a point penalty for going over the allotted time every now and again.

[beeveewee]

The official should have stayed out of it altogether and left it to the players. Generally a roving official should not impose on a match unless appealed to by the players.

Second best would be to call the ball out if it was clearly out. Fairness in competition is the goal of the code, not technicality.

[pheonix6579]

Originally Posted by beeveewee

The official should have stayed out of it altogether and left it to the players. Generally a roving official should not impose on a match unless appealed to by the players.

Second best would be to call the ball out if it was clearly out. Fairness in competition is the goal of the code, not technicality.

I agree. For one the officials role in this was uncalled for. Two, are we to make audible calls on everything? Like when i am returning serve and my opponent hits his first serve into the net, am i supposed to shout NET! (Which gets old real quick as i have had guys do that to me)

If we are going to be REALLY TECHNICAL the call should have gone to playerB because player A made loud sound that just might have affected the other player (just ask Serena about that one.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by JLyon

To be honest I am calling a little BS on this story or it is exaggerated since it is coming as a second hand story.
There has to be more to the story, such as did the opponent protest the call, a roving official unless called to court should not be making rulings unless there is a clear mistake such as a clear line-call mistake.

If the ball was obviously out the only thing an official should do is remind the players to make and audible call or a universal hand signal to clarify that the ball was out.

Just can not see a certified official making this type of call, but I would call for the tournament referee and ask about the ruling, there is no dispute on fact I assume that both players agreed the ball was out and the player did not make an audible call, but come on this is league tennis you sound more like an ***** if you call an obvious out ball out, it is not juniors.

Ditto, I can't believe this thread has any legs left.