Forehand Takes The Middle: RIP

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by skiracer55

...there isn't anything holy about FTTM. I guess we should first ask ourselves if there's any good reason for coming up with a rule for "middle" balls. Personally, I think not. If you start coming up with rules and you get a hot ball down the middle, if you have to think for even a nanosecond "Now what the Sam Hill is the 'middle ball' rule?", you've probably already lost the point. "Whoever volunteers first" is my answer to who takes the middle ball.

Totally agree.

In our match, I found myself catching balls a tad late and not being aggressive like I would like. I would hesitate and wonder if I should take that ball and where my partner was. Doesn't work.

My take, if you have a partner who insists on FTTM and you don't like this arrangement...go find another partner. You're not gonna change her, and she's not gonna change you. You'll both be a lot happier with somebody else on the same side of the net...

I think where we've left is that I will call "Mine" for any ball I want. I actually spent a clinic drill calling "Mine" for every ball hit right to me, just to get it to be a habit.

We will be using this same approach to handling lobs over the net player, as we have different ideas about who should call a lob. She says the deep player should call it; I say net players have responsibility to call or to hit any lob going over their head.

[LeeD]

Either or never makes any sense.
Have room so both players can call their overhead! Or their poaches.
Sometimes, one or the other is tentative.
Sometimes, one or the other is aggressive.
Gotta allow for that.
Doubles is a TEAM sport, not one leader and one follower.

[skiracer55]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Totally agree.

In our match, I found myself catching balls a tad late and not being aggressive like I would like. I would hesitate and wonder if I should take that ball and where my partner was. Doesn't work.


I think where we've left is that I will call "Mine" for any ball I want. I actually spent a clinic drill calling "Mine" for every ball hit right to me, just to get it to be a habit.

We will be using this same approach to handling lobs over the net player, as we have different ideas about who should call a lob. She says the deep player should call it; I say net players have responsibility to call or to hit any lob going over their head.

..."mine" is pretty definitive, and a lot more Socially Acceptable than "Hey...WTF do you think you're doing? I've got it, so why don't you just go park yourself in the cheap seats?"

[rfm29]

My usual doubles partner and I usual play "beat you to the ball". Basically, we both go after the ball with the attitude of, the ball is mine, and I will take it. Seems to work for us.

[Cindysphinx]

Yeah, a few racket clashes are perfectly fine with me. Once I'm going for a ball, I don't pull my racket back just because I think my partner may also go for it. That's how you get unplayed balls up the middle.

[jswinf]

Originally Posted by rfm29

My usual doubles partner and I usual play "beat you to the ball". Basically, we both go after the ball with the attitude of, the ball is mine, and I will take it. Seems to work for us.

Sounds good as long as one or both of you puts it away, you might not wind up in great position to cover a return.

[rfm29]

Originally Posted by jswinf

Sounds good as long as one or both of you puts it away, you might not wind up in great position to cover a return.

Well, at the same time, once we see that one is definitely going to beat the other, we back off and let them take it. Sounds kinda complicated, but it does work, but you probably have to work well with your doubles partner.

[Spokewench]

I believe there is no right or wrong for middle balls. No, its my forehand, my backhand, that is all a bunch of hoo haa. The only sin is to let a middle ball get through the gap and be missed.

[i3602u]

Fh takes middle is kinda of a general rule because most people fh is stronger than bh but at higher levels just play!!

[OrangePower]

I can see the value of simple rule-of-thumb advice like FTTM for beginners. But really once you have some playing experience, it becomes instinctual for the partner with the better play on the ball to take the volley, regardless of FH or BH. I'm surprised that this would ever be an issue or topic of conversation for non-beginner players.

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

We have got to take Forehand Takes The Middle out back and shoot it in the head. I don't know where this idea came from, but it is making me crazy.

I play deuce court. I am perfectly happy to hit my BH volley. It is usually stronger than my FH volley.

Yet I play with partners who practice FTTM and scold me after any missed BH volley. This is causing me all manner of headache.

A ball comes up the middle and I take it, but I get scolded that it wasn't my ball because her FH was in the middle. So even though my partner was deeper in the court, I'm supposed to not poach.

It's just a hot mess.

FTTM leaves the middle too exposed because I am not taking balls I could reach with my BH.

FTTM leaves the deep player covering the entire court except the alley I can cover with my FH. So my partner has responsibility for 80% of the court and I have 20%.

FTTM sounds good when the net player is in the ad court (her FH is to the middle), but if she is trying to cover diagonal balls she is leaving her alley wide open, and a lot of players can take a FH DTL for a winner.

FTTM is hard for the net player with a decent BH volley to implement. I don't know where my partner is, so I cannot judge when to let balls go through. Better, I think, is for me to take what I think I can take without regard to whose FH is in the middle.

Don't get me started on the issues playing with lefties. It's enough to give you vertigo.

Cindy -- who is more likely to feel like scolding partners who let balls go through that they should take

Learn to hit LH forehand volleys. Problem solved.

[KFwinds]

Originally Posted by larry10s

most serves in doubles should be down the middle so you get a forehand
a wide serve would give you a crosscourt backhand(lefty in the deuce court)
should be easier than the inside out backhand(lefty in the ad court)


if your inide out bh is better that your crosscourt bh thats unusual

Are you a lefty? I am, and I can tell you that it's far easier to chip and charge a backhand return inside-out from the ad court (it's basically a straight-ahead shot) than it is to have to always reach wide for it in the deuce court. At the level I play (4.0) I will see serves out wide to my backhand all day if I return from the deuce court, creating easy pickings for my opponents at net. What you're saying is 100% backward from my experience. The only way this works is if your backhand stroke is as strong or better than your forehand, and you are able to set up and drive all of your backhand returns against big servers.

Like Cindy, I don't mind hitting a backhand volley; it's actually as strong or stronger than my forehand volley (common with lefties). Because I return much better from the ad side, I will always play that way when playing with a right-handed player.

[slice bh compliment]

That Gary, Indiana meeting post was funny.

FTTM is never actually preached by any actual coaches I've ever seen. Maybe I'm fortunate.

Hopefully, Cindy, it's just a low-level, self-taught kind of thing.

Actually, I do remember a really weak (barely certified) pro who agreed with a hack captain who promoted it with her hacktastic team.

So who's is it? Gotta just feel it and communicate. ANd move like you want it. And not be afraid to get lobbed. I love getting lobbed (I've loved overheads since birth and I've loved Bucharest Backfires and tweeners since the Nastase/Noah eras.

[chatt_town]

Hold on now...lets talk about that. First of all if she hits a ball in the alley closest to you she should be basically in your service box and you should be in the alley. Her alley at that point is a non issue if we are talking about a situation where she has just served and is coming in. Me and my wife will give each other all kinds of hell if the forehand doesn't take the middle. Part of the reason for that is if they start putting balls high on your backhand and you take them....chances are you aren't doing anything really meaningful with them. She should be able to direct her volley back again at the the person in the ad court's backhand(assuming they are right handed) as she is moving in closer...which ultimately forces them to try to lob or hit it right back to one of you in most cases which gets put away at that point. I really love to hit the ball short in the alley from the ad side back to the server's backhand and short. My wife covers the alley and I come all the way over into her service box. Most try to lob which is fine...but if you don't get it up and high enough chances are your partner or you are going to eat it and if you just return it through the middle I'm going to be right there for the forehand volley which is going to right back through the service box of the player that is now in the alley trying to get back as most teams don't cover the middle. We believe in covering each other. I don't play with any woman or man that sits camped out bent over watching me run like a horse. I think you need to rethink that. Forehand covering the middle is a good thing even when it's the woman hitting the volley. That space that is left open is a non issue. the middle of the court has basically moved at that point and if she is getting where she is suppose to be they will never be able to get passed her to get to that part of the court. She will be in the middle to cut it off.

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

We have got to take Forehand Takes The Middle out back and shoot it in the head. I don't know where this idea came from, but it is making me crazy.

I play deuce court. I am perfectly happy to hit my BH volley. It is usually stronger than my FH volley.

Yet I play with partners who practice FTTM and scold me after any missed BH volley. This is causing me all manner of headache.

A ball comes up the middle and I take it, but I get scolded that it wasn't my ball because her FH was in the middle. So even though my partner was deeper in the court, I'm supposed to not poach.

It's just a hot mess.

FTTM leaves the middle too exposed because I am not taking balls I could reach with my BH.

FTTM leaves the deep player covering the entire court except the alley I can cover with my FH. So my partner has responsibility for 80% of the court and I have 20%.

FTTM sounds good when the net player is in the ad court (her FH is to the middle), but if she is trying to cover diagonal balls she is leaving her alley wide open, and a lot of players can take a FH DTL for a winner.

FTTM is hard for the net player with a decent BH volley to implement. I don't know where my partner is, so I cannot judge when to let balls go through. Better, I think, is for me to take what I think I can take without regard to whose FH is in the middle.

Don't get me started on the issues playing with lefties. It's enough to give you vertigo.

Cindy -- who is more likely to feel like scolding partners who let balls go through that they should take

[Larrysümmers]

my partner and i have discussed this before, and here is what we do. who ever is in position to hit the ball first, gets it. i have to trust that his bh is going to do the job, and i cant call him off.
we dont get scold eachother of missed shots either, we all make errors, and doubles is a team sport.

[Off The Wall]

Originally Posted by chatt_town

Hold on now...lets talk about that. First of all if she hits a ball in the alley closest to you she should be basically in your service box and you should be in the alley. Her alley at that point is a non issue if we are talking about a situation where she has just served and is coming in. Me and my wife will give each other all kinds of hell if the forehand doesn't take the middle. Part of the reason for that is if they start putting balls high on your backhand and you take them....chances are you aren't doing anything really meaningful with them. She should be able to direct her volley back again at the the person in the ad court's backhand(assuming they are right handed) as she is moving in closer...which ultimately forces them to try to lob or hit it right back to one of you in most cases which gets put away at that point. I really love to hit the ball short in the alley from the ad side back to the server's backhand and short. My wife covers the alley and I come all the way over into her service box. Most try to lob which is fine...but if you don't get it up and high enough chances are your partner or you are going to eat it and if you just return it through the middle I'm going to be right there for the forehand volley which is going to right back through the service box of the player that is now in the alley trying to get back as most teams don't cover the middle. We believe in covering each other. I don't play with any woman or man that sits camped out bent over watching me run like a horse. I think you need to rethink that. Forehand covering the middle is a good thing even when it's the woman hitting the volley. That space that is left open is a non issue. the middle of the court has basically moved at that point and if she is getting where she is suppose to be they will never be able to get passed her to get to that part of the court. She will be in the middle to cut it off.

You present a nice point model and how it could/should be constructed and played out. However, if BH takes the volley and aims between the opponents, the point is over. (Opponents in up&back position.)

[chatt_town]

We aren't going to do it on the court but at some point we will discuss that. You can't have 15 balls go between you and not at some point have a discussion as to who is taking those balls. Otherwise you will keep losing the same way.

Originally Posted by Larrysümmers

my partner and i have discussed this before, and here is what we do. who ever is in position to hit the ball first, gets it. i have to trust that his bh is going to do the job, and i cant call him off.
we dont get scold eachother of missed shots either, we all make errors, and doubles is a team sport.

[chatt_town]

That is true as well assuming that they can put the ball away. many can't. I guess I'm not totally against you hitting a backhand volley. I mean I don't want you letting balls go over your lsft shoulder just so I can hit a forehand volley but if you are reaching and not stepping and punching you are asking for trouble.

Originally Posted by Off The Wall

You present a nice point model and how it could/should be constructed and played out. However, if BH takes the volley and aims between the opponents, the point is over. (Opponents in up&back position.)

[Off The Wall]

Originally Posted by chatt_town

That is true as well assuming that they can put the ball away. many can't. I guess I'm not totally against you hitting a backhand volley. I mean I don't want you letting balls go over your lsft shoulder just so I can hit a forehand volley but if you are reaching and not stepping and punching you are asking for trouble.

As you become more accomplished at doubles, you'll find the same problems as the OP. The solution will be as Larrysummers described.

[athiker]

Originally Posted by LeeD

If you're not going to force the issue with any shot, better to defer to your partner who's in position to hit the ball.
Nothing worse that a backhand poacher who only can pop up a weak, short, high sitter.
Conversely, if you can't hit DOWN on any volleys, you should just practice more before playing.

Ditto, if you are going to take a backhand volley poach you need to make a strong shot the solid majority of the time or let it go. A lot of 3.5s I've seen and a decent chunk of 4.0s have more trouble with the bh volley...especially if its a bit on the high side...than the forehand volley. They end up flubbing it or hitting a weak shot back that is worse than letting the back person hit a solid ground stroke. Granted this can happen on the forehand side too!...I just see and do it more myself on the bh side.

If the net player can pull off a nice bh volley poach with pace and placement on a pretty consistent basis then by all means they should step in and poach...from either side...whoever is closest. I just see a lot of...let's say...overconfidence in trying to make that backhand volley shot and failing at 3.5/4.0 level...again...especially on the high bh volleys. The whole point of poaching is to take the offensive...if the resulting shot doesn't do that then the net person should've let it pass.