Some stats for 1995 W SF (Becker-Agassi)

[krosero]

At 3-4 in the second, NBC had Agassi had 8 "return aces", same as my count.

At 3-4 in the fourth, NBC had Becker hitting his "24th volley winner" (I had 19 volleys and 5 smashes).

[krosero]

At 1-2 in the third set, after a service return winner by Agassi, NBC showed a stat on his "Passing Shots." They had him at 16 winners and no unforced errors. I have him at 16 if I include his 9 return passes.

Often the term "passing shot" does not include returns, so I wondered if NBC's 16 winners could be explained without returns. I have Agassi making only 7 ordinary passes in rallies, so I don't know where the remaining 9 winners would come from, if not from returns. By my count, apart from returns he had made 4 attempted passes -- not clean winners, or even winners as judgment calls -- that drew some kind of error from Becker (forced or unforced). But that is not enough to get to 16.

And I have no reason to think these shots would be referred to as "Winners" in any graphic.

Nor would you expect the term "passing shot" to be applied to groundstrokes that merely forced the opponent to volley the ball out or into the net.

So I think NBC's "Passing Shots" include return passes.

That being said, NBC presented a graphic for "Passing Shots" in the final that I don't understand, whether returns are included or not. But that's how I read the stat in this match.

[Moose Malloy]

He said something I didn't know: that at one point Becker stopped doing this with his tongue; and Andre joked about how panic set in for him then. There's really only one match that he could be referring to, this 1995 loss at Wimbledon, because it was the only time that Becker beat him after 1989 (and so many of us have commented on the panicked look in Agassi's eyes). Their 1995 USO semi was to be their last match until one more Agassi win in 1999, so maybe at the USO Boris was not doing it. Who knows. One thing I do know is how close this Wimbledon match was, regardless.

In "Open," Agassi writes that he wondered during this match if Bollettieri(who was with Becker at the time) revealed to Boris that Agassi knew this 'tell.'

[krosero]

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy

In "Open," Agassi writes that he wondered during this match if Bollettieri(who was with Becker at the time) revealed to Boris that Agassi knew this 'tell.'

You would think that Nick, if he knew it, would pass it along to Boris. But, now I'm not remembering, after Agassi revealed this little secret during his 2007 USO commentary, didn't someone talk to Boris on the air about it? I recall Boris being as surprised as anyone, but I may be off base here, my memory on this is not specific.

[Datacipher]

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy

In "Open," Agassi writes that he wondered during this match if Bollettieri(who was with Becker at the time) revealed to Boris that Agassi knew this 'tell.'

Yes, Agassi "wrote" that, but it is quite odd to me. Bolletierri was very angry at Agassi at the time for the things Agassi was openly saying in the press (that he was insignificant etc). Both he and Boris disliked Agassi greatly and wanted nothing more than to beat him and get their revenge. All parties were taking this VERY personally. So if Nick had info like that, quite easily the key to the entire match, it's hard to believe he wouldn't mention it.

Nick is either the most prinicpled coach in the world, because there is no reason other than some personal code not to reveal this (a claim Agassi would dislike), or he did reval it to Becker and there was nothing Becker coudl do about it (habits like this die hard, but nevertheless, with Becker's willpower and desire to beat Agassi I think he could train himself out of this in a matter of weeks, if not days), or there is something wrong with the story.

Yes, I do think Mcenroe brought it up on air with Becker.

[krosero]

I happen to be reading Becker's book right now, and near the end (p. 307) he says that Agassi had revealed the tongue trick to him a little while back at an Oktoberfest; his book was published in 2004.

He says that at some point "in the late 1980s" Agassi noticed Becker's tongue, so Andre may have picked this up extremely early in their rivalry.

[krosero]

This is from Times Online, published in June 2004:

Those of us who stayed deep into a grey Wimbledon evening to watch the 1992 quarter-final were witness not just to a humiliating demolition of Boris Becker’s serve, but a seismic shift in the balance of power between the baseliners and the serve-volleyers. Bjorn Borg had shown what mental resolve and brilliant athleticism could achieve from the back of the court, but that was before rackets became lighter and more powerful. A lanky left-hander from Croatia called Goran Ivanisevic served a record 206 aces in those 1992 championships, 37 of them in the final, which he lost to Agassi, but the way Agassi picked Becker’s serve and hammered it back past him on the rise left a lasting impression on the game. Every kid on every court wanted to play like Agassi, and although Sampras usually had Agassi’s measure at Wimbledon, the numbers of genuine serve-volleyers in the game has continued to dwindle. Only a few years later, at the Oktoberfest in Munich, when Becker was winding down to retirement and the pair were sharing a few beers, did Agassi reveal the secret of his excellent record against the three-time Wimbledon champion (Agassi won 10 of their 14 matches).

“If you look at the early tapes, as Boris goes into his service action,” Agassi recalls, “just as he puts his racket up, he puts his tongue out. When the tongue was in the middle, he was serving down the middle of the deuce court or into the body; when his tongue was off to the side, he was serving out wide. It was the reverse for the ad court. Hey, you look for any advantage you can get.” Becker, who with McEnroe became one of Agassi’s few friends on tour, still laughs at the indignity of it.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...icle442302.ece

[Moose Malloy]

In Open, Agassi also described a 'tell' Todd Martin had. If he looked for long time at a particular spot just before serving he would end up serving in the opposite direction. If he just glanced at a particular spot before serving, he would hit it there.

[krosero]

Originally Posted by Moose Malloy

In Open, Agassi also described a 'tell' Todd Martin had. If he looked for long time at a particular spot just before serving he would end up serving in the opposite direction. If he just glanced at a particular spot before serving, he would hit it there.

I guess these little things are just another form of expressiveness. I mean how tennis players mention all the time how they try not to give the opponent anything they can use -- try not to show what they're thinking or feeling, oncourt or off. Express yourself in any way, and someone shrewd can exploit it.

[Datacipher]

Originally Posted by krosero

I guess these little things are just another form of expressiveness. I mean how tennis players mention all the time how they try not to give the opponent anything they can use -- try not to show what they're thinking or feeling, oncourt or off. Express yourself in any way, and someone shrewd can exploit it.

I think this was a pretty obvious attempt by Martin to bluff, and explicitly NOT tell what he was doing. Many of the Open tourney players I've played against have similar antics, I have used EYE fakes on passing shots...it actually impresses me when a competitor notices and comments on it....I mean in those days, we were hitting HARD. It is like we are both appreciate a more subtle skill, and it's amazing that in the heat of action, he noticed, from so far away, in such a fraction of a second, probably on a largely subconscious level, that I was trying to tell him "inside out", before holding the stroke as long as possible, and uncoiling it down the line.

Unfortunate for poor Martin that Agassi caught on to his deception pattern and saw through it!

[krosero]

Points won on serve:

Becker 72% on 1st serve (63/87) and 50% on 2nd (28/56).
Agassi 73% on 1st serve (74/102) and 40% on 2nd (21/53).

In rallies of 2 or more good shots:

Becker 54% on 1st serve (28/52) and 44% on 2nd (14/32).
Agassi 64% on 1st serve (50/78 ) and 32% on 2nd (12/38 ).

Agassi seems to have returned Becker's first serves better than Becker returned his. But Becker seems to have protected, or backed up, his second serves better than Agassi did.

[krosero]

Becker won 151 points overall, Agassi 147.

Becker served on 143 points and 49 serves did not come back: 34.3%
Agassi served on 155 points and 33 serves did not come back: 21.3%

Becker served at 61%, making 87 of 143 first serves. By set:

18 of 27 (67%)
22 of 31 (71%)
14 of 29 (48%)
33 of 56 (59%)

Agassi served at 66%, making 102 of 155 first serves. By set:

24 of 33 (73%)
27 of 41 (66%)
15 of 29 (52%)
36 of 52 (69%)

Becker converted 3 of 16 break points, Agassi 4 of 14.

[krosero]

Becker made his first serve on 9 of 14 break points (64%). He was broken twice on first serve and twice on second.

Agassi made his first serve on 13 of 16 break points (81%), not having to go to a second until early in the third set). Each time he was broken it was on first serve.

So Agassi actually served better than Becker on break points. But in the tiebreaks it was a different story.


Becker made 8 of 8 first serves in the tiebreaks. By tiebreak:

4 of 4 (no mini-breaks)
4 of 4 (no mini-breaks)

Agassi made 6 of 8 first serves in the tiebreaks. By tiebreak:

3 of 4 (he lost 2 of the 3)
3 of 4 (he lost 2 of the 3)

I can't recall seeing a stat like that over the course of two tiebreaks, though McEnroe came close in the 1981 Wimbledon final over Borg (made 9 of 10 first serves in the two tiebreaks played).