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#1 | ||
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Legend
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,470
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Sukova d Navratilova 1-6, 6-3, 7-5
This ended Martina's 74 match win streak, her 46 match win streak on grass, her streak of 6 consecutive majors(which included a 45 match win streak in majors), & her quest for the Calendar Grand Slam of 1984(but the public address announcer did introduce her by saying she completed the 'Grand Slam' by winning the French Open earlier that year, her 4th consecutive major) Navratilova was 3-0 vs Sukova going into this match, not having lost a set to her. She finished with a 26-6 edge in the rivalry. During the 1987 AO Womens Final on ESPN, Cliff Drysdale referred to this match as "the best women's match I have ever seen." my stats: Navratilova won 52 of 76 points on 1st serve(68%) & 15 of 38 on 2nd(39%) She made 76 of 114 1st serves(67%) Sukova won 34 of 54 points on 1st serve(63%) & 22 of 44 on 2nd(50%) She made 54 of 98 1st serves(55%) Navratilova won 109 pts, Sukova 103. Navratilova had 4 aces, 5 df's Sukova had 5 aces, 3 df's Navratilova had 39 winners: 11 fh, 7 bh, 6 fhv, 8 bhv, 7 ov winners by set: 16, 6, 17 Sukova had 47: 14 fh, 18 bh, 4 fhv, 6 bhv, 5 ov winners by set: 17, 14, 16 Navratilova had 15 passing shot winners(9 fh, 6 bh) Sukova had 29(11 fh, 18 bh) Navratilova had 13 unforced errors, Sukova 9(none in the 3rd set) Navratilova was 4 of 12 on break points Sukova was 4 of 13 Navrtailova had 26 unreturned serve, 1 I judged a service winner Sukova had 18, 2 I judged a service winner Navratilova was 70 of 118 at net(59%) Sukova was 39 of 60(65%) The first set score is misleading, there were more points played in that set(80) than either the 2nd or 3rd sets. 6 of the 7 games went to deuce, & Martina faced break point in 3 of her 4 service games(7 in all) Very impressive for Sukova to shrug off that 1st set loss & continue to play well. The last game of the match was pretty amazing. 12 points played, 8 clean winners. No unforced errors. Martina saved 5 match points, 4 with fh winners. Sukova made 1st serves on all 5 match points. Not sure if I've ever seen Martina hit her fh as hard as she she did in this game, what a gutsy performance in defeat. from SI: Quote:
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Last edited by Moose Malloy : 12-14-2010 at 09:28 AM. |
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#2 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,470
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here are my stats for the final(Evert d Sukova 6-7, 6-1, 6-3)
did this a while ago, & didn't take as many stats. Quality wasn't great, possibly due to very windy conditions. both players had 38 winners. Evert: 15 fh, 16 bh, 2 fhv, 3 bhv, 2 ov Sukova: 2 fh, 2 bh, 17 fhv, 12 bhv, 5 ov winners by set Evert - 10, 14, 14 Sukova - 22, 5, 11 Evert had 28 passing shot winners(12 fh, 16 bh) Sukova had 1 Evert was 6 of 13 on break points Sukova was 2 of 13 Evert was 73 of 114 on 1st serves, 64% Sukova was 41 of 95, 43% Sukova had 2 aces, 14 df's Evert had 8 df's Sukova had 17 unreturned serves, 2 I judged service winners Evert had 19, 2 I judged service winners from SI: Quote:
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#3 |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: OREGON
Posts: 2,354
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It was a wonderful match, and a well written article. Chris took her down after the loss of the first set.
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#4 |
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Professional
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,098
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sukova, I think, is one of the best players never to win a slam..
she played a fine match against Martina, and had Chris on the ropes early on... but then she just fell apart... |
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#5 |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 66
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I can't stop reading again. Nice article for sure. At least, the information is valid not based on imagnation.
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#6 | ||
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,650
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Quote:
I guess that's why when we think of some champions and their greatest moments from a "mental toughness" point of view, we often end up looking at matches they lost: Lendl at 88 USO, Martina here and at 85 USO, Federer at 08 Wimbledon, etc. Quote:
It's something I've been watching for in Martina's matches ever since our 87W debate: whether she's coming in too much, or too inflexibly, behind her second serve. It's not always easy to say. In that 87W match, her winning rate on second serve was equally low no matter whether she followed the serve directly into net or stayed back. I'm not sure what those stats would look like in this 84 AO match, but sometimes in her matches it's true that she comes in behind second serves that don't have much on them, and gets passed. But she had to get to net, so it's the SVer's dilemma. Even in her most aggressive matches she doesn't follow every second ball in as if mindlessly following the Big Game philosophy; she does stay back on some second serves. I just wonder why Martina's success on second serve seems often to be low when we get her stats -- so far. So of course you expect Sukova's winners to look different when her opponents are as different as Martina and Chris. I just didn't expect them to look so dramatically different. Sukova's winners against Evert, no problem, they're exactly what you'd expect: a SVer getting her winners at net, against a baseliner. But you look at Sukova's winners against Martina and she looks like a baseliner: 32 groundstroke winners. And I wonder how many were return winners (esp. of 2nd serves). It's interesting, however, even though Sukova was a SVer, the net stats show Martina coming in twice as much. |
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#7 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,470
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^ just rewatched the 2nd set for some more detailed stats. Martina S&Ved on every service point she played. She was 10 of 16 when she S&Ved on 1st serve, 5 of 7 when she S&Ved on 2nd serve. Sukova hit 6 return winners, 4 off the 1st serve, 2 off the 2nd serve(these 6 were counted in passing shot winners as well)
Sukova only came to net 8 times in this set! She was 6 of 8. S&Ved 5 times on 1st serve. Once on 2nd serve(won all 6 S&V points) She had a low serve % in this set - 44%, which may explain why her net stats were so low, since she wasn't that comfortable S&Ving on 2nd serve(also had 4 aces in this set, which obviously don't count for net stats, but she was clearly coming in after her serve on those points) Martina came in on Sukova's serve 9 times(won 5 of them) Quote:
Its a shame none of this match is on youtube. Last edited by Moose Malloy : 12-19-2010 at 01:30 PM. |
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#8 |
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Semi-Pro
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 630
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I think comparing the two matches shows just how different playing Martina was vs. playing Chris. I think a lot of younger fans don't really appreciate how daunting it was not only to have to play two all time greats back to back, but also in having to play two totally different matches tactically speaking. That's something that seems completely lost in the womens game today.
Chris didn't play the Australian very often, but every time she did she got to the finals. The higher bouncing grass courts suited her game very well in my opinion. Hana skipped this Australian season that year citing fatigue. I can't think of a single Australian womens field that included all of the womens top 5 from 1980-1990. |
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#9 | |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: OREGON
Posts: 2,354
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#10 | ||
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,650
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Quote:
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#11 |
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Legend
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,470
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Here are stats I took on the '87 Eastbourne Final, Sukova d Navratilova 7-6(7-5) 6-3
This win snapped Martina's 69 match win streak on English grass(last loss was vs Mandlikova at '81 Wimbledon. She won 5 straight Eastbourne & Wimbledon titles after that) Martina had to finish off Shriver in a SF match earlier in the day(won 6-4 4-6 6-3, picking up from 4-3 in the 1st) Sukova had beaten Evert the day before 4-6, 6-4, 8-6, coming back from 5-2 down in the 3rd(and also overcoming 16 df's) Martina was 16-1 vs Sukova going into this match. Sukova served at 56%(50 of 89) Martina served at 67%(47 of 70) Sukova won 31 of 50 points on 1st serve(62%) She won 24 of 39 on 2nd(61%) Martina won 31 of 47 points on 1st serve(66%) She won 9 of 23 on 2nd(39%) Sukova had 31 non service winners: 4 fh, 13 bh, 7 fhv, 4 bhv, 3 ov Martina had 36: 12 fh, 8 bh, 7 fhv, 7 bhv, 2 ov Sukova had 14 passing shot winners(3 fh, 11 bh) Martina had 18(10 fh, 8 bh) Sukova had 2 aces, 3 df's Martina had 1 ace, 3 df's Sukova had 21 unreturned serves, 4 were service winners 8 were 2nd serves Martina had 21 as well, 1 service winner. 3 were 2nd serves. Sukova was 4 of 7 on break points(Martina made 1st serves on 5 of them) Martina was 2 of 7(Sukova made 1st serves on 4 of them) Sukova won 85 points, Martina 74 The first set was very entertaining. 44 clean winners. Martina had a 5-0 lead, hitting 12 winners in those 5 games. Don't think it was a choke, Sukova started hitting a ton of winners the rest of the set(with Martina still making a lot as well) But like with the AO loss, you wonder if Martina should have stayed back more on 2nd serves(which she started doing some in the 2nd) since Sukova started treeing with her returns. Last edited by Moose Malloy : 11-15-2011 at 11:47 AM. |
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#12 | ||||
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Legend
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,470
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some aticles I came across:
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#13 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,470
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Quote:
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#14 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,315
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Quote:
Quite interesting how much trouble Martina had with Sukova. Considering for example that Sukova lost 21 matches in a row to Steffi Graf from 1986 through 1994, with Sukova winning only 4 sets. In 1987-89 alone there were 11 wins for Steffi with 22-0 sets and Sukova winning more than 3 games in only 4 sets! |
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#15 | |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,650
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Quote:
That's an awful lot of (non-service) winners for one set. Offhand I recall Becker and Agassi hitting 39 non-service winners between them in the third set, during their Davis Cup match. I can't think of any over 40. How many points were in the set? |
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#16 |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,650
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#17 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,470
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Quote:
86 points in the 1st set. |
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#18 |
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Hall Of Fame
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,650
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Here's another, ironically also by Becker and Agassi: 40 winners between them in their 1995 Wimbledon SF, fourth set. If you throw in Becker's aces it's 47 clean winners.
But that set was exceptionally long (108 points). That's not even a particularly long set. |
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#19 |
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Legend
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,669
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Those stats show that Sukova often got up for playing Martina. 18 backhand passing shot winners? Her backhand isnt even a good passing shot normally. In fact all she usually did was slice it. Also 0 unforced errors in the 3rd set, very unusual for her game which was high risk.
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TMF on Jan. 2011- Serena is washed up for good, TMF in Oct. 2009- Nadal has won his final slam, TMF in 2011- Woz will beat Serena at U.S Open |
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