Looking for Help Choosing a Camera

[Torut]

I am currently in the process of looking for a decent camera to video entire matches. I have looked and looked but am just overwhelmed by the all the different specs on the cameras. So I am looking for reccomendations of what you may have that works already. Price is a big concern and I don't need professional level quality. I would like something that can be compatable with Dartfish if I ever decide to break down and use it. However at this time I just want something I can plug up to my big screen or computer monitor and analyze match footage. Looking to keep the price under $400. Any recomendations would help especially experiences with a given camera. Thanks in advance.

[MarinaHighTennis]

Flip Ultra HD with gorillapod

[Torres]

Casio FH-100. Its high speed / 120+fps video shooting capabilities is just a killer function IMO, particularly for sports.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp6qo...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaXnT...endscreen&NR=1

If you want to do analysis, the FC-100 offers variable high speed shooting of video: http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/56...-camera-review

[toly]

Originally Posted by Torres

Casio FH-100. Its high speed / 120+fps video shooting capabilities is just a killer function IMO, particularly for sports.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp6qo...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaXnT...endscreen&NR=1

If you want to do analysis, the FC-100 offers variable high speed shooting of video: http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/56...-camera-review

This is really nice camera.
What software do you use to edit Casio FH-100 videos?

[WildVolley]

I have a Casio high speed camera (the EX-FH20) and think it is great for sports. However, it might not be the best bang for the buck if you're just looking to tape an entire match.

My concern is that it will only tape a long match if shot on low quality video. If you shoot HD, it will fill the card quickly. If you shoot slow-motion, it will really fill the card quickly.

For shooting a whole match, you probably want pretty low quality video or else you're going to fill a lot of hard drives.

[beernutz]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

I have a Casio high speed camera (the EX-FH20) and think it is great for sports. However, it might not be the best bang for the buck if you're just looking to tape an entire match.

My concern is that it will only tape a long match if shot on low quality video. If you shoot HD, it will fill the card quickly. If you shoot slow-motion, it will really fill the card quickly.

For shooting a whole match, you probably want pretty low quality video or else you're going to fill a lot of hard drives.

That confirms what I've read. I think the FH100 caps video files at 4GB each, which for an HD video is about 18 minutes of playing time. You'd need a pretty big SD card to tape an entire match in HD and it would require multiple video files.

[kevten]

The early Casio Exilim HS models with slow motion video (FC100, FC150, FH100) do not appear to be manufactured any longer. The new models look to be the ZR100 and soon-to-be-released ZR150. They changed some of the frame rates / image sizes. One comment I read is that they do not allow manual shutter speed selection for slow motion video as was done on the FH100, so there is motion blur.

[maxpotapov]

Originally Posted by kevten

The early Casio Exilim HS models with slow motion video (FC100, FC150, FH100) do not appear to be manufactured any longer. The new models look to be the ZR100 and soon-to-be-released ZR150. They changed some of the frame rates / image sizes. One comment I read is that they do not allow manual shutter speed selection for slow motion video as was done on the FH100, so there is motion blur.

Canon SX230 HS and SX40 HS do 120 fps @ 640x480 and 240 fps @ 320x240
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ150 does 220 fps @ 320x240
FujiFilm FinePix HS10 (HS11) does 240 fps @ 448x336, 420 fps @ 224x168, 1000 fps @ 224x64
Nikon Coolpix P300 does 120 fps @ 640x480

[Chas Tennis]

Originally Posted by maxpotapov

Canon SX230 HS and SX40 HS do 120 fps @ 640x480 and 240 fps @ 320x240
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ150 does 220 fps @ 320x240
FujiFilm FinePix HS10 (HS11) does 240 fps @ 448x336, 420 fps @ 224x168, 1000 fps @ 224x64
Nikon Coolpix P300 does 120 fps @ 640x480

The Casio FH100 does a great job for stroke analysis. It has MANUAL shutter speed control down to 1/40,000 sec shutter speed to minimize motion blur (= see the ball on the racket strings). I am not certain but I believe there are currently no other affordable high speed video cameras being offered with MANUAL exposure control, they are all AUTO exposure. Motion blur is is not minimized by cameras with AUTO exposure control.

The FH100 also has small Jello Effect distortions based on some Jello Effect tests that I have done. See Jello Effect videos - http://vimeo.com/user6237669/videos

For the above HSV cameras the Jello Effect should be measured if accurate videos are needed for stroke analysis. Also, the recording time for high speed video needs to be determined as some HSV cameras only record for a few seconds.

Unfortunately, I believe that the Casio FH100 is no longer manufactured so you may have to search for a new one still in stock or buy a used one.

The FH100 will only record to a maximum video file size of 4 Gb (17+ minutes for HD). To record longer, for example, on a 32 Gb SD card, the camera must be retriggered. For 240 fps with corresponding low resolution the FH100 will record almost 11 minutes.

To record an entire match in HD there are other cameras that will do better than the Casio FH100 but for stroke analysis the FH100 is exceptional. The Casio F1(2008), FH20 and FH25 also have MANUAL exposure control for HSV.

Toly asked about analysis software. Kinovea is free, open source analysis software that allows comparison of videos side-by-side as often seen in golf swing comparisons.

[maxpotapov]

Originally Posted by maxpotapov

Canon SX230 HS and SX40 HS do 120 fps @ 640x480 and 240 fps @ 320x240
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ150 does 220 fps @ 320x240
FujiFilm FinePix HS10 (HS11) does 240 fps @ 448x336, 420 fps @ 224x168, 1000 fps @ 224x64
Nikon Coolpix P300 does 120 fps @ 640x480

+ Canon PowerShot S100 does 120 fps @ 640x480 and 240 fps @ 320x240
www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons100/page7.asp
And yes, no manual control here

[Chas Tennis]

Originally Posted by maxpotapov

+ Canon PowerShot S100 does 120 fps @ 640x480 and 240 fps @ 320x240
www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons100/page7.asp
And yes, no manual control here

Those frame rates are very good for stroke analysis. Do you have that camera? For how long can it record once triggered?

[sabala]

Originally Posted by Chas Tennis

The Casio FH100 does a great job for stroke analysis. It has MANUAL shutter speed control down to 1/40,000 sec shutter speed to minimize motion blur (= see the ball on the racket strings). I am not certain but I believe there are currently no other affordable high speed video cameras being offered with MANUAL exposure control, they are all AUTO exposure. Motion blur is is not minimized by cameras with AUTO exposure control.

The FH100 also has small Jello Effect distortions based on some Jello Effect tests that I have done. See Jello Effect videos - http://vimeo.com/user6237669/videos

For the above HSV cameras the Jello Effect should be measured if accurate videos are needed for stroke analysis. Also, the recording time for high speed video needs to be determined as some HSV cameras only record for a few seconds.

Unfortunately, I believe that the Casio FH100 is no longer manufactured so you may have to search for a new one still in stock or buy a used one.

The FH100 will only record to a maximum video file size of 4 Gb (17+ minutes for HD). To record longer, for example, on a 32 Gb SD card, the camera must be retriggered. For 240 fps with corresponding low resolution the FH100 will record almost 11 minutes.

To record an entire match in HD there are other cameras that will do better than the Casio FH100 but for stroke analysis the FH100 is exceptional. The Casio F1(2008), FH20 and FH25 also have MANUAL exposure control for HSV.

Toly asked about analysis software. Kinovea is free, open source analysis software that allows comparison of videos side-by-side as often seen in golf swing comparisons.

Can you shoot 120 fps in wide screen with that camera? I found these vids showing slo mo in a wide format compared to 4:3 ratio in other vids from the FH100....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UJZs...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwtI5..._order&list=UL

...or was it maybe cropped into a wider format in another program before being put on YT?


I'm starting to think maybe a hi speed cam like the FH100 for stroke analysis AND a camcorder for taping match play is the best way to go....

[Chyeaah]

Originally Posted by toly

This is really nice camera.
What software do you use to edit Casio FH-100 videos?

Well, i think Windows Movie Maker can slow mo and stuff, idk.

If you only need to Slow Mo then just get a freeware program. If you want to do some editing and cutting, the easiest i would say is Premiere Pro but thats expensive, so you should go looking into Sony Vegas.

[Lsmkenpo]

I took this high speed video of Ernests Gulbis hitting, using a $100 Casio Exilim EX-FC100. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlebgMBe7DQ

For stroke analysis it is hard to beat for the price, you have to have high speed, standard 30fps is useless for stroke analysis.

kinovea is a great open source motion analysis program that rivals dartfish for free. http://www.kinovea.org/en/ I have dartfish but actually prefer kinovea.

[Chas Tennis]

Originally Posted by sabala

Can you shoot 120 fps in wide screen with that camera? I found these vids showing slo mo in a wide format compared to 4:3 ratio in other vids from the FH100....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UJZs...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwtI5..._order&list=UL

...or was it maybe cropped into a wider format in another program before being put on YT?


I'm starting to think maybe a hi speed cam like the FH100 for stroke analysis AND a camcorder for taping match play is the best way to go....

1st Video - That 120 fps mode does look good but the resolution spec for 120 is 640X480. I don't use 120 often and don't know the details but I'm sure the FH100 cannot do HD at 120 fps. The FH100 also has a special recording mode to produce files for the Youtube format. I have not used it. It looks from the signs as if the video is a Casio promotion.

The 2nd video uses the '30 - 240 fps' mode. The camera takes video at 30 fps and when you trigger it a second time it changes mode to 240 fps, back and forth between 30 & 240 with sound recorded for 30. A very good mode if someone is taping a match and wants to do stroke analysis on some strokes.

[Note: Youtube uses compression and the quality of stop action frame-by-frame is considerably degraded. Viewing the Casio FH100 video file on the camera's LCD screen or on the computer, using Quicktime, frame-by-frame works smoothly forward & backward.

You're right about the two-camera approach having big advantages. I have an Aiptek 60p fps and can do a nice job on the overall match and the 60p is also very useful for looking at some stroke features. But the 240 fps with the Casio does a great job for stroke analysis.

[toly]

There are some data from manual of EX-FH100 about quality and recording time of the video.


Thank you tt fellows for information on software for video editing.

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Originally Posted by Torut

I am currently in the process of looking for a decent camera to video entire matches. I have looked and looked but am just overwhelmed by the all the different specs on the cameras. So I am looking for reccomendations of what you may have that works already. Price is a big concern and I don't need professional level quality. I would like something that can be compatable with Dartfish if I ever decide to break down and use it. However at this time I just want something I can plug up to my big screen or computer monitor and analyze match footage. Looking to keep the price under $400. Any recomendations would help especially experiences with a given camera. Thanks in advance.

I am not a video-file and cannot give you all the specs but I recently received the Kodak PLaySport and I am happy with it ...

I have recorded 120 minutes at 720P / 60HZ frame rate. I am able to use media player to get 1/2 speed slow motion which I find good enough. It does not have the capacity to use higher frame rates but the price is good and the picture quality is quite nice.

All totaled it cost less than $150 including a 16 GB card (which will record 2.5 hours) and a fish eye attachable lens. I am able to set up the camera on top of the net and record the entire baseline. Here is a short video I produced for another thread.

[Zolar]

Here's my two cents. I've been using a simple VADO pocket camera and a "QM-1" camera mount (MyTennisTools.com) for a while now and it does all I need it to do. Watching your strokes and footwork during a match is priceless. I've also used side by side analysis with a 30 fps camera (the VADO again) and it works fine for me. Total price for camera mount and camera - about $130 plus or minus.

[martini1]

Beware of the Lo res on these high frame rates. Shots need to be film very close in order to show up nicely. I have a canon and it does 240fps, but even putting the camera on the umpire chair it was kind of burry because of the Lo res.

[shanked_it]

I like go pro helmet hero for versatility and viewing angle