Stats for 1978 RG final (Borg-Vilas)

[Stuart S]

I'm the sort of person who always puts his hand up when he's wrong. And I do that now

I've checked your source and also others, and the French Open is, indeed, also known as Roland Garros.

Thanks, BTurner, for correcting me.

[Vegito]

Friends, Im a 22 years old Vilas fan, and I allways wants opinions and information about him. Anyone have stats, declarations of the players or any kind of information about the semifinal match at te Masters 77? I would like to know if Vilas was fine physically. I found different versions in various newspaper files. Vilas beat Connors in that Masters, playing a great tennis, but then lost to Borg in semifinals. After that, Vilas didn´t play for months. Some persons talked about ak kind of complex of Vilas against Borg, if Vilas was good physically in that match, it means Borg was really difficult to him, because Guillermo was in a great shape in that moment. Anyway I would have liked to see Vilas playing against Borg in 1977 French Open Final or in the "american tour" that year. Who would win? Some things I read about that match and the links:

"Vilas was a bit slower than in his magnificent second round victory over Connors, but Borg was simply flawless"
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=6906,2506820

Tremendous accusations of a journalist against Vilas and Borg:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=4833,1203058

Interestant description of the match and some declarations of the players:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=2903,1366266

I have another question. If ATP had given the number one to Vilas, at least for a month(for example september-october 1977, or at any time that year)You think the rest of his career would have been any different. This affected Guillermo?

And you know what happened in those first months of 1978? Because I read somewhere that he lost in many early rounds, but this does not appear in the ATP site.

Regards to everyone.

[jean pierre]

Originally Posted by Vegito

Friends, Im a 22 years old Vilas fan, and I allways wants opinions and information about him. Anyone have stats, declarations of the players or any kind of information about the semifinal match at te Masters 77? I would like to know if Vilas was fine physically. I found different versions in various newspaper files. Vilas beat Connors in that Masters, playing a great tennis, but then lost to Borg in semifinals. After that, Vilas didn´t play for months. Some persons talked about ak kind of complex of Vilas against Borg, if Vilas was good physically in that match, it means Borg was really difficult to him, because Guillermo was in a great shape in that moment. Anyway I would have liked to see Vilas playing against Borg in 1977 French Open Final or in the "american tour" that year. Who would win? Some things I read about that match and the links:

"Vilas was a bit slower than in his magnificent second round victory over Connors, but Borg was simply flawless"
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=6906,2506820

Tremendous accusations of a journalist against Vilas and Borg:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=4833,1203058

Interestant description of the match and some declarations of the players:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=2903,1366266

I have another question. If ATP had given the number one to Vilas, at least for a month(for example september-october 1977, or at any time that year)You think the rest of his career would have been any different. This affected Guillermo?

And you know what happened in those first months of 1978? Because I read somewhere that he lost in many early rounds, but this does not appear in the ATP site.

Regards to everyone.

I read a lot of times that Vilas had an injury at his wrist during this semi-final against Borg.
About 1977, the ATP ranking was totally absurd, and everyone knows that Vilas was the real world champion this year. But I think it affects a little Vilas. ATP should say today : OK, the system was stupid, and Vilas is the n°1 in 1977. It would be fair.

[Vegito]

Thanks jean pierre, but you think if Vilas was at his 100%, he might have won? I wonder that.

The ATP decided when to update the ranking or what? Because I saw that, for example, in 1974, the ranking was updated much more frequently.

People I need opinions!

[Vegito]

Originally Posted by Vegito

Thanks jean pierre, but you think if Vilas was at his 100%, he might have won? I wonder that.

The ATP decided when to update the ranking or what? Because I saw that, for example, in 1974, the ranking was updated much more frequently.

People I need opinions!

If Vilas had won the Masters, ATP would have considered him the number one?

[kiki]

Originally Posted by Vegito

Friends, Im a 22 years old Vilas fan, and I allways wants opinions and information about him. Anyone have stats, declarations of the players or any kind of information about the semifinal match at te Masters 77? I would like to know if Vilas was fine physically. I found different versions in various newspaper files. Vilas beat Connors in that Masters, playing a great tennis, but then lost to Borg in semifinals. After that, Vilas didn´t play for months. Some persons talked about ak kind of complex of Vilas against Borg, if Vilas was good physically in that match, it means Borg was really difficult to him, because Guillermo was in a great shape in that moment. Anyway I would have liked to see Vilas playing against Borg in 1977 French Open Final or in the "american tour" that year. Who would win? Some things I read about that match and the links:

"Vilas was a bit slower than in his magnificent second round victory over Connors, but Borg was simply flawless"
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=6906,2506820

Tremendous accusations of a journalist against Vilas and Borg:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=4833,1203058

Interestant description of the match and some declarations of the players:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=2903,1366266

I have another question. If ATP had given the number one to Vilas, at least for a month(for example september-october 1977, or at any time that year)You think the rest of his career would have been any different. This affected Guillermo?

And you know what happened in those first months of 1978? Because I read somewhere that he lost in many early rounds, but this does not appear in the ATP site.

Regards to everyone.

tankings and calculations were part of the Masters history in the 1970´s, allowed by the round robin format, that made players try to win or try to lose according to the next rival they´d have.many words were said about Borg tanking in the 1975 Masters to avoid facing Nastase before the final and the same was talked about that 1977 Masters, Borg wouldn´t want to play Connors before the finals.In 1980,Lendl gave away his match against Connors to avoid playing Borg in the semis.In 1982,Mc Enroe lost on purpose to Teltscher feeling Connors would defeat Tanner and, thus, Mac wouldn´t face Lendl before the finals...but Connors lost to Roscoe in a terrific match ( 7-6,6-7,7-6), so Mac had to face Lendl in the sf...

[kiki]

Originally Posted by Vegito

Thanks jean pierre, but you think if Vilas was at his 100%, he might have won? I wonder that.

The ATP decided when to update the ranking or what? Because I saw that, for example, in 1974, the ranking was updated much more frequently.

People I need opinions!

Vilas never beat Borg on fast indoors: Borg defeated him in the 1976 WCT Finals and destroyed him in the 1979 WCT Richmond tournament, in the finals.he had no chance.

well, Vilas beat Borg in the 1975 Masters but Borg lost that match on purpose, as I said before, to avoid facing Nastase in the sf...he faced Ilie in the finals...and, fortunately, was roundly beaten ( Nastase played with him like a toy in front of local Stockholm fans)

[borg number one]

Originally Posted by kiki

Vilas never beat Borg on fast indoors: Borg defeated him in the 1976 WCT Finals and destroyed him in the 1979 WCT Richmond tournament, in the finals.he had no chance.

well, Vilas beat Borg in the 1975 Masters but Borg lost that match on purpose, as I said before, to avoid facing Nastase in the sf...he faced Ilie in the finals...and, fortunately, was roundly beaten ( Nastase played with him like a toy in front of local Stockholm fans)

Interesting story as to Nastase against Borg. That was 19 year old Borg. I bet that motivated Borg big time. Nastase tried some gamesmanship against Borg in that '76 W final, absolutely to no avail. Borg had become the Angelic Assassin in many ways by then. We know what he did in that '76 Wimbledon tourney. Won it without losing a set and beating Nastase in straight sets on grass, though Nastase was supposed to be the superior "grass court player" and Borg was supposed to be this clay courter primarily. He served and volleyed beautifully and showed no nerves. That was at 20 in his W final!

[kiki]

Nastase and Borg played great matches, they were like a mixture of heat and ice, creative tennis vs machine tennis.Both were getting along very fine; Borg was a really easy going guy and Nastase was a guy that made Borg laugh.

[borg number one]

Originally Posted by kiki

Nastase and Borg played great matches, they were like a mixture of heat and ice, creative tennis vs machine tennis.Both were getting along very fine; Borg was a really easy going guy and Nastase was a guy that made Borg laugh.

Completely agree with that Kiki, but on court Borg liked to get down to business and that was Borg's first W final. He came up with a big clutch performance in 1976 there and he was still only 20. Nastase and Connors were good friends too. Of course, later Borg, Gerulaitis, and McEnroe were friends too.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by borg number one

Completely agree with that Kiki, but on court Borg liked to get down to business and that was Borg's first W final. He came up with a big clutch performance in 1976 there and he was still only 20. Nastase and Connors were good friends too. Of course, later Borg, Gerulaitis, and McEnroe were friends too.

I think Nastase had in Wimbledon, the same menthal problem Borg had at New York.He should have won that great 1972 final vs Smith and he had trounced Borg just a few months before at the Masters...played on Borg´s home soil.It was really amazing that Borg could beat Nastase so easily at their 1976 final.Nastase should have won it, but Borg played with no nerves and a complete self confidence...and a much imporved serve as a result of hiring somebody to help him develop his serve...a certain Ilie Nastase ( so, Nasty has a great % of the success of Borg, unfortunately it turned out being a boomerang agaisnt him)

And for the friendship, yes.Borg was close to Nastase,Panatta,Gerulaitis and pretty good friends with Mc Enroe and, for a few years, Vilas.He also got along fine with other guys like Orantes and Ashe, with whom he trained a lot.

[borg number one]

Interesting Kiki. Bergelin has spoken about how he and Borg worked on his serve for a week or two before that tourney at Cumberland tennis club (private). He was spending hours just hitting serves and the courts played fast that year due to heat/no rain. He said it had become "pretty good" in his typical understated way. Was Nastase out there too practicing and giving Borg some advice on serve? Fascinating stuff.

[Vegito]

Originally Posted by kiki

Vilas never beat Borg on fast indoors: Borg defeated him in the 1976 WCT Finals and destroyed him in the 1979 WCT Richmond tournament, in the finals.he had no chance.

well, Vilas beat Borg in the 1975 Masters but Borg lost that match on purpose, as I said before, to avoid facing Nastase in the sf...he faced Ilie in the finals...and, fortunately, was roundly beaten ( Nastase played with him like a toy in front of local Stockholm fans)

Vilas was in great shape in the Masters 1977, so I think maybe he would have won. Vilas also beat Borg in the Canadian Open 1976, in an Outdoor Hard Surface. I read once in Wikipedia this tournament was in clay, but at least the ATP site say it was in Hard. Apparently Vilas felt comfortable there in Canada, he won twice. Vilas won some tournament in hard, so I wonder if he could have gone further in the US Open betwenn 1978 and 1981. Maybe it was a faster and more difficult surface? Vilas also won in Basel 1978 beating McEnroe in the final. Anyone know something about that Borg-Vilas match in Canada?

[jean pierre]

Originally Posted by kiki

Vilas never beat Borg on fast indoors: Borg defeated him in the 1976 WCT Finals and destroyed him in the 1979 WCT Richmond tournament, in the finals.he had no chance.

well, Vilas beat Borg in the 1975 Masters but Borg lost that match on purpose, as I said before, to avoid facing Nastase in the sf...he faced Ilie in the finals...and, fortunately, was roundly beaten ( Nastase played with him like a toy in front of local Stockholm fans)

In 1975, Vilas won 7/5 4/6 6/1. I don't think that Borg lost intentionnaly : Why winning a set in this case ?? It was more simple to loose 6/4 6/1 !!

[kiki]

Originally Posted by borg number one

Interesting Kiki. Bergelin has spoken about how he and Borg worked on his serve for a week or two before that tourney at Cumberland tennis club (private). He was spending hours just hitting serves and the courts played fast that year due to heat/no rain. He said it had become "pretty good" in his typical understated way. Was Nastase out there too practicing and giving Borg some advice on serve? Fascinating stuff.

french journalist Jean Couvercell, from L´Equipe wrotte a fantastic book called " les cannibales du tennis" that covered 1968-1979 with very amusing chapters for the major players of that period.In Borg´s chapter, he positively says that Borg had looked upon Nastase ( not a big server but a pretty good one) to help him out with his serve.

BTW, any french fan of the 70´s has that book? I lost it many years ago, and it was a great one to read.It also has a very long introduction that summarizes the greatest moments of the 1920´s (Tilden and les Mousquetaires), 30´s (Perry and Budge ), 40´s (Kramer) and 50´s and 60´s till pro era (Gonzales,Trabert,Patty,Drobny,Seixas,Cooper,Hoad, Fraser,Emerson,Santana and Pietrangeli)...a real must for people like us, so found of tennis hsitory and, specifically, the Golden Era ( 1968-1993 )

[kiki]

Originally Posted by Vegito

Vilas was in great shape in the Masters 1977, so I think maybe he would have won. Vilas also beat Borg in the Canadian Open 1976, in an Outdoor Hard Surface. I read once in Wikipedia this tournament was in clay, but at least the ATP site say it was in Hard. Apparently Vilas felt comfortable there in Canada, he won twice. Vilas won some tournament in hard, so I wonder if he could have gone further in the US Open betwenn 1978 and 1981. Maybe it was a faster and more difficult surface? Vilas also won in Basel 1978 beating McEnroe in the final. Anyone know something about that Borg-Vilas match in Canada?

Not and it would be great to know about.I think, last time that Vilas beat Borg in an official tourney would be the 1975 Masters...in 1980, he also beat the swede at the ATP World team Cup, on clay, at Dusseldorf, but this event, which gathered many top pros, was semiofficial ( at most)

[kiki]

Originally Posted by jean pierre

In 1975, Vilas won 7/5 4/6 6/1. I don't think that Borg lost intentionnaly : Why winning a set in this case ?? It was more simple to loose 6/4 6/1 !!

Well, you can tank in a way that makes it seem like you did your best.If Borg lost so easily to Vilas, then everybody would suspect.Jean Pierre, I like Vilas and I would really like to know that it was a honest match.But I just don´t think so.

Remember many exos in the 70´s and 80´s? I have seen Borg and Mac share one set and play an honest third, and also, because of TV schedule, Mac and Lendl share one set in time for TV to catch up the finals et...and you know how much hate did it go between both of them¡¡¡ but TV - and its money- is bigger than heat...

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Vegito

Vilas was in great shape in the Masters 1977, so I think maybe he would have won. Vilas also beat Borg in the Canadian Open 1976, in an Outdoor Hard Surface. I read once in Wikipedia this tournament was in clay, but at least the ATP site say it was in Hard. Apparently Vilas felt comfortable there in Canada, he won twice. Vilas won some tournament in hard, so I wonder if he could have gone further in the US Open betwenn 1978 and 1981. Maybe it was a faster and more difficult surface? Vilas also won in Basel 1978 beating McEnroe in the final. Anyone know something about that Borg-Vilas match in Canada?

That was in Toronto in 1974 on hardcourt. Vilas beat Borg 7-6, 6-0 in the quarter finals. Vilas didn't drop a set on his way to the title.