Foreign college thread in the college section

[donnymac10s]

Originally Posted by slice bh compliment

I played college tennis in the late 80s. There were more and more guys from other countries. I liked it. They were cool. It was a really good level.

They now represent 2/3 of the ranked players. I read Wayne Bryan's article and I cannot help but agree, even though I would not have agreed with it a decade or two ago.

Sure, Stanford will dominate if it's all US kids. But it's about being a student-athlete and striving for that level. I want that for my kids. If it's not an option at a school that is an academic fit, that'll be tough.

But if we get all protectionist...and the level drops, is that really so bad for our youth? I think it'll inspire them to play well...rather than discourage them, which looks like it is the case now, according to Wayne Bryan.

Anyway, there might be something to the whole no scholarship for foreign players concept.

Either that or American kids embrace the DIII idea. And that might not happen in families with big conference affinities.

For my kids, I just hope they work hard at school, sports and emphasize character and effort. Praying that whatever is a good fit in HS and college will be wonderful.

I loved the foreign competition when I was playing. I loved foreign and US teammates equally. If, despite all the great resources this country offers, you cannot play d-1 because some guy who's first or second generation in tennis shoes steals your spot, then you don't deserve to play college tennis to begin with (or play JC, d-2, d-3, NAIA or intramural)

[tennis5]

Pulled this over from the foreign college tennis thread:
( poster lives in a European country currently and gave their insights on life over there)

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinmadison
I can assure you that no European country would put themselves in the position of having all their spots taken by Americans.
They are very protective of their investments in society and believe it should benefit locals before foreigners, especially Americans.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by tennis5

Pulled this over from the foreign college tennis thread:
( poster lives in a European country currently and gave their insights on life over there)

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinmadison
I can assure you that no European country would put themselves in the position of having all their spots taken by Americans.
They are very protective of their investments in society and believe it should benefit locals before foreigners, especially Americans.

Uh, European countries are not founded on the same basis as the United States of America. You may want to consider history. Many of us Americans don't feel the need to be compared to Europe or any other country for that matter that does not have college sports. While I feel the amount of foreigners playing college tennis is problematic, they are not the problem. The problem is not enough qualified American junior tennis players are available every year to fill all the tennis scholarships and roster spots.

[gplracer]

Originally Posted by andfor

Uh, European countries are not founded on the same basis as the United States of America. You may want to consider history. Many of us Americans don't feel the need to be compared to Europe or any other country for that matter that does not have college sports. While I feel the amount of foreigners playing college tennis is problematic, they are not the problem. The problem is not enough qualified American junior tennis players are available every year to fill all the tennis scholarships and roster spots.

Too many Americans work their butt off and play the best they can. There are tons of junior players that did their best growing up. They just do not have the talent of some other players. It is a shame this group does not get to play college tennis while people from other countries fill their spots. I have lots of friends who I play tennis with that are teaching pros and from other countries. They came here on a free ride since they played tennis. They are great people. I just do not like the idea of Americans losing out to foreigners.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by gplracer

Too many Americans work their butt off and play the best they can. There are tons of junior players that did their best growing up. They just do not have the talent of some other players. It is a shame this group does not get to play college tennis while people from other countries fill their spots. I have lots of friends who I play tennis with that are teaching pros and from other countries. They came here on a free ride since they played tennis. They are great people. I just do not like the idea of Americans losing out to foreigners.

With respect. Your American friends who did their best in junior tennis and did not play in college, did so by choice. Show me a H.S tennis player above beginner level and I can show them a college tennis program where they can play.

[donnymac10s]

Originally Posted by andfor

With respect. Your American friends who did their best in junior tennis and did not play in college, did so by choice. Show me a H.S tennis player above beginner level and I can show them a college tennis program where they can play.

This is so true... working with top U18 junior player right now. I tell him that he needs to do 'this' on the court and 'that' in the gym or on track. He (won several big tournaments) tells me "that's too much work; it's too hard.." But this is the stuff that I do RIGHT NOW...and my college days are well behind me. I don't need a scholarship; I don't need to make the team; I don't care about wins or rankings...and I still work harder (perhaps out of habit) than these kids. And I have a day job. Then they complain how there aren't scholarships or spots available. Give me a break...

[gplracer]

Originally Posted by andfor

With respect. Your American friends who did their best in junior tennis and did not play in college, did so by choice. Show me a H.S tennis player above beginner level and I can show them a college tennis program where they can play.

I agree, I did not explain correctly. Sure they can play at smaller colleges. There are too many foreign players taking up scholarships at big schools. It makes it harder for people who are not as skilled but worked hard as a junior when they are looking for tennis teams to play on. You are correct. They can play at smaller schools.

[Tennishacker]

Originally Posted by andfor

Uh, European countries are not founded on the same basis as the United States of America. You may want to consider history. Many of us Americans don't feel the need to be compared to Europe or any other country for that matter that does not have college sports. While I feel the amount of foreigners playing college tennis is problematic, they are not the problem. The problem is not enough qualified American junior tennis players are available every year to fill all the tennis scholarships and roster spots.

Tell us what you mean by "qualified" American juniors?

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only one of two on TCF ignore list

[andfor]

Originally Posted by Tennishacker

Tell us what you mean by "qualified" American juniors?

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only one of two on TCF ignore list

Appropriately qualified based on results and skill to play at the University of their choice.

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by donnymac10s

I loved the foreign competition when I was playing. I loved foreign and US teammates equally. If, despite all the great resources this country offers, you cannot play d-1 because some guy who's first or second generation in tennis shoes steals your spot, then you don't deserve to play college tennis to begin with (or play JC, d-2, d-3, NAIA or intramural)

Think about it .....

You loved the foreign competition when you were playing.

I loved the foreign competition when I was playing.

ok......

BUT, NOW MANY TEAMS ARE ALL FOREIGNERS.

HOW CAN ANY AMERICAN, TODAY, LOVE THE FOREIGN COMPETITION

WHEN THEY ( THE AMERICAN ) ARE NOT EVEN ON THE TEAM?

[Tennishacker]

Originally Posted by andfor

Uh, European countries are not founded on the same basis as the United States of America. You may want to consider history. Many of us Americans don't feel the need to be compared to Europe or any other country for that matter that does not have college sports. While I feel the amount of foreigners playing college tennis is problematic, they are not the problem. The problem is not enough qualified American junior tennis players are available every year to fill all the tennis scholarships and roster spots.

In response to your statement in bold, IMO, the problem is lazy/unethical coaches.

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Only one of two on TCF ignore list!

[10ismom]

Originally Posted by donnymac10s

I loved the foreign competition when I was playing. I loved foreign and US teammates equally. If, despite all the great resources this country offers, you cannot play d-1 because some guy who's first or second generation in tennis shoes steals your spot, then you don't deserve to play college tennis to begin with (or play JC, d-2, d-3, NAIA or intramural)

Donnymac, I definitely don't want to post anything personal but I do feel that your posts (above quote and others in this thread) were biased against American junior tennis players. You definitely had played D1 college tennis and perhaps.......on foreign tennis scholarship. Nothing wrong with that since you probably deserved that.
However, to say that American Tennis players in general are not working hard and don't deserve to play D-1 tennis is a cruel comment. Tons of American kids work real hard in tennis and academics, not just foreign players. Many of these hard working American kids have fewer chances of getting to play D-1 or getting scholarship if coaches are more interested in foreign recruits. It appears to be the case.

[hound 109]

Originally Posted by 10ismom

Donnymac, I definitely don't want to post anything personal but I do feel that your posts (above quote and others in this thread) were biased against American junior tennis players. You definitely had played D1 college tennis and perhaps.......on foreign tennis scholarship. Nothing wrong with that since you probably deserved that.
However, to say that American Tennis players in general are not working hard and don't deserve to play D-1 tennis is a cruel comment. Tons of American kids work real hard in tennis and academics, not just foreign players. Many of these hard working American kids have fewer chances of getting to play D-1 or getting scholarship if coaches are more interested in foreign recruits. It appears to be the case.

Nice post.

I would add the following to the second to last sentence:

"Many of these hard working American kids have fewer chances of getting to play D-1 or getting scholarship if coaches are more interested in non-american recruits who are 1.5 - 2 years older (& who have possibly played on the pro circuit for a year or two)....... than 18 y/o american HS seniors.


I agree with Hacker that many (if not most) college coaches are lazy &/or unethical.

Anybody go to a college match featuring these mid 20 y/o non-americans? Didn't think so......all one hears are a few grunts & crickets.

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by hound 109

Nice post.

I would add the following to the second to last sentence:

"Many of these hard working American kids have fewer chances of getting to play D-1 or getting scholarship if coaches are more interested in non-american recruits who are 1.5 - 2 years older (& who have possibly played on the pro circuit for a year or two)....... than 18 y/o american HS seniors.


I agree with Hacker that many (if not most) college coaches are lazy &/or unethical.

Anybody go to a college match featuring these mid 20 y/o non-americans? Didn't think so......all one hears are a few grunts & crickets.

One of the mistakes us Americans make is to try and dominate each age group year after year , if your player is and Open player in the juniors by the time they are 14 they should start playing local mens opens and future event when they can get in .

in doing this the player starts to see a different level that is out there and will often run into some of these college players that are from different countrys and see what they have to work on . Trust me this is a great way of finding out what you have to do to haved a better chance of making a team,,,,, play with the juniors be a junior play with the men become a man .

[jht32]

Originally Posted by 10ismom

..However, to say that American Tennis players in general are not working hard and don't deserve to play D-1 tennis is a cruel comment...

People on one side of argument say that "the American juniors are not working hard enough," which you consider a cruel comment.

People on the other side of the argument say that "the American college coaches are lazy (and unethical to boot)." Would you also consider this to be a cruel comment?

[andfor]

Originally Posted by jht32

People on one side of argument say that "the American juniors are not working hard enough," which you consider a cruel comment.

People on the other side of the argument say that "the American college coaches are lazy (and unethical to boot)." Would you also consider this to be a cruel comment?

Good point.

Those who argue against the coaches are not looking at the facts and numbers. There are simply too many D1 tennis programs to be filled by enough competitively competent American juniors who can contribute to each team. Compounding that, many 3, 4 star type players, some 5 stars and a Blue Chip or two every year sign with non-D1 schools. This makes the college coaches job to find impact players or players that can develop into contributors (wins) almost impossible. They fill their need with foreign talent.

Coaches tennis programs are expected to win. Expecting a coach at a D1 program to settle for players who can not win is unrealistic. I see many D1 programs accepting 1 and 2 star players every year.

Everyone knows there are D1 tennis scholarships out there for those willing to consider lesser known and sometimes out of the way schools.

[slice bh compliment]

Originally Posted by donnymac10s

I loved the foreign competition when I was playing. I loved foreign and US teammates equally. ...

Same here. Thanks to telephones and email, I am still in touch with my teammates from Europe and South America. One lives in FL now, one in TX, one in Canada....the others went back home.

But things have changed and I totally see Wayne Bryan's point.

also, NAIA, D3 or juco's might not be a 'fit' for everyone.

[donnymac10s]

Originally Posted by tennis5

Think about it .....

You loved the foreign competition when you were playing.

I loved the foreign competition when I was playing.

ok......

BUT, NOW MANY TEAMS ARE ALL FOREIGNERS.

HOW CAN ANY AMERICAN, TODAY, LOVE THE FOREIGN COMPETITION

WHEN THEY ( THE AMERICAN ) ARE NOT EVEN ON THE TEAM?

So you think that coach should go with weaker American players than better foreign players? I loved foreign competition because I loved challenging myself. I didn't expect for everyone to lower the level of the game for my benefit. If I was close to losing a scholly to a foreign teammate I made sure to outwork all of them. But I grew up with a mentality: I am not entitled to squat and I kne[o]w it! You want something in this life; in this country? You have to earn it.

[donnymac10s]

Originally Posted by Number1Coach

One of the mistakes us Americans make is to try and dominate each age group year after year , if your player is and Open player in the juniors by the time they are 14 they should start playing local mens opens and future event when they can get in .

in doing this the player starts to see a different level that is out there and will often run into some of these college players that are from different countrys and see what they have to work on . Trust me this is a great way of finding out what you have to do to haved a better chance of making a team,,,,, play with the juniors be a junior play with the men become a man .

totally agree!

[donnymac10s]

Originally Posted by 10ismom

Donnymac, I definitely don't want to post anything personal but I do feel that your posts (above quote and others in this thread) were biased against American junior tennis players. You definitely had played D1 college tennis and perhaps.......on foreign tennis scholarship. Nothing wrong with that since you probably deserved that.
However, to say that American Tennis players in general are not working hard and don't deserve to play D-1 tennis is a cruel comment. Tons of American kids work real hard in tennis and academics, not just foreign players. Many of these hard working American kids have fewer chances of getting to play D-1 or getting scholarship if coaches are more interested in foreign recruits. It appears to be the case.

1. I was not on a foreign tennis scholarship. 2. Not to brag, but to get into D-I, I'd play tennis 3.5 hrs a day (often on the ball machine, serves, sets with anyone and everyone) and work out for at least 1 hour after that. Thereafter: homework. 3. I had no coach. 4. I hardly played any junior tournaments (parents couldn't afford it). 5. I couldn't wait to test my skills against all players: foreign and domestic. If I failed, I only blamed myself for not working hard enough...and I LOVED the challenge. With the exception of very, very few players, I'm afraid that most of our wonderful juniors have the attitude of jaded playboys. "You want me to jump rope for how long?" "Hitting on the ball machine is boring". "I don't like practicing serves". "I hate running". "I can't concentrate for more than 1-1.5 hrs". "It's too hot; it's too hard; I don't like that drill; it's too windy; my tummy hurts". I've heard it all.. from TOP juniors.