Foreign college thread in the college section

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by donnymac10s

1. I was not on a foreign tennis scholarship. 2. Not to brag, but to get into D-I, I'd play tennis 3.5 hrs a day (often on the ball machine, serves, sets with anyone and everyone) and work out for at least 1 hour after that. Thereafter: homework. 3. I had no coach. 4. I hardly played any junior tournaments (parents couldn't afford it). 5. I couldn't wait to test my skills against all players: foreign and domestic. If I failed, I only blamed myself for not working hard enough...and I LOVED the challenge. With the exception of very, very few players, I'm afraid that most of our wonderful juniors have the attitude of jaded playboys. "You want me to jump rope for how long?" "Hitting on the ball machine is boring". "I don't like practicing serves". "I hate running". "I can't concentrate for more than 1-1.5 hrs". "It's too hot; it's too hard; I don't like that drill; it's too windy; my tummy hurts". I've heard it all.. from TOP juniors.

First.....OH my God! What kind of juniors do you know?

Please don't lump all juniors in one category.
It really makes it hard to believe you work with American juniors if you think that this is how they behave,
although I can't say many good things about the academy kids,
but it's more of big cheats, throw their garbage all over the place, trash talk, or can't talk.

In the Northeast, tennis is a fortune.
The juniors are thrilled to be there and value every minute of it otherwise they would be doing something else. Period.

[donnymac10s]

Originally Posted by tennis5

First.....OH my God! What kind of juniors do you know?

Please don't lump all juniors in one category.
It really makes it hard to believe you work with American juniors if you think that this is how they behave,
although I can't say many good things about the academy kids,
but it's more of big cheats, throw their garbage all over the place, trash talk, or can't talk.

In the Northeast, tennis is a fortune.
The juniors are thrilled to be there and value every minute of it otherwise they would be doing something else. Period.

You're telling me not to lump all juniors in one category and you seem to be lumping all academy kids in a category. I find that amusing. But I have lived and worked with juniors from mid-west, Pacific Northwest and California (N. and S. Cal). I have seen kids who think (oooh I can play with fonts, too) that they work hard but, in reality, their idea of hard work is that they are not playing video games as much as the computer nerds. I don't blame the kids; I blame the parents. A generation of children raising children.

[justinmadison]

Originally Posted by donnymac10s

2. Not to brag, but to get into D-I, I'd play tennis 3.5 hrs a day (often on the ball machine, serves, sets with anyone and everyone) and work out for at least 1 hour after that. Thereafter: homework. 3. I had no coach. 4. I hardly played any junior tournaments (parents couldn't afford it). 5. I couldn't wait to test my skills against all players: foreign and domestic. If I failed, I only blamed myself for not working hard enough...and I LOVED the challenge.

No need to brag. How about just telling us your real name so we can see your results?

[donnymac10s]

Originally Posted by justinmadison

No need to brag. How about just telling us your real name so we can see your results?

Anyone interested in my results or level can feel free to fly out to California and come out for a couple of sets...on me.

[10ismom]

Originally Posted by donnymac10s

1. I was not on a foreign tennis scholarship. 2. Not to brag, but to get into D-I, I'd play tennis 3.5 hrs a day (often on the ball machine, serves, sets with anyone and everyone) and work out for at least 1 hour after that. Thereafter: homework. 3. I had no coach. 4. I hardly played any junior tournaments (parents couldn't afford it). 5. I couldn't wait to test my skills against all players: foreign and domestic. If I failed, I only blamed myself for not working hard enough...and I LOVED the challenge. With the exception of very, very few players, I'm afraid that most of our wonderful juniors have the attitude of jaded playboys. "You want me to jump rope for how long?" "Hitting on the ball machine is boring". "I don't like practicing serves". "I hate running". "I can't concentrate for more than 1-1.5 hrs". "It's too hot; it's too hard; I don't like that drill; it's too windy; my tummy hurts". I've heard it all.. from TOP juniors.

Sorry to hear that you had such bad experience with "WHINEY" American TOP juniors. If you were one of American tennis juniors who deserved D-1 tennis programs, I am certain and (you know it) that there are lots of American junior players who work as hard in tennis, conditioning and academics for opportunity to play D-1.
The point is if they are not considered because 1. already been stereotyped that American juniors are lazy and whiney 2. college coaches go directly looking at foreign pools 3. foreign players are older, already tried pro tour now wanting to go to American colleges full ride....... eventually, there will be very few American juniors playing D-1 college tennis.

I do not think that is true in other college sports. Americans are MINORITY in college tennis!? but not in other sports!? Correct me if I am wrong (that was my previous question posted).

I believe, wholeheartedly, that there are numbers of TALENTED, DRIVEN, HARD-WORKING American junior tennis players who want to play college tennis if they are given the opportunity.
The TOP junior slackers probably believe in innate ability but not hard work to acheive their goals. They need attitude adjustment, tough love and should learn to respect their coaches!

[donnymac10s]

Originally Posted by 10ismom

The point is if they are not considered because 1. already been stereotyped that American juniors are lazy and whiney 2. college coaches go directly looking at foreign pools 3. foreign players are older, already tried pro tour now wanting to go to American colleges full ride....... eventually, there will be very few American juniors playing D-1 college tennis.

I do not think that is true in other college sports. Americans are MINORITY in college tennis!? but not in other sports!? Correct me if I am wrong (that was my previous question posted).

Points 1 and 2: I disagree. I don't believe that college coaches stereotype players based on nationality. The fact is that with a lot of tournaments being played, they form an opinion based on direct observation and conversation with people (other coaches) who are familiar with the players in question. Also, it's more expensive (and riskier) for a college coach to consider a foreigner. From my experience, this is usually last resort after all other suitable US candidates are reviewed and discarded. Regarding point #3: I agree - that's where things should be (and currently are) equalized. Not allow older foreigners to compete against HS graduates. Also, I believe that there are more foreigners in college tennis than other sports because college tennis is truly a global sport (unlike baseball, football or even basketball). If it's not soccer, foreigners don't usually care about other sports.

"I believe, wholeheartedly, that there are numbers of TALENTED, DRIVEN, HARD-WORKING American junior tennis players who want to play college tennis if they are given the opportunity." Help me understand this: are you saying that they must be given the opportunity AND THEN they will start working hard? Sounds a bit backwards to me...

[Tennishacker]

Originally Posted by 10ismom

eventually, there will be very few American juniors playing D-1 college tennis.!

I have nothing against foreign players, they are some of the best kids, but my main reason against so many foreigners on college teams is that American tennis is suffering.

Less American kids playing college tennis=less kids playing in the future.

[10ismom]

Originally Posted by donnymac10s

Points 1 and 2: I disagree. I don't believe that college coaches stereotype players based on nationality. The fact is that with a lot of tournaments being played, they form an opinion based on direct observation and conversation with people (other coaches) who are familiar with the players in question. Also, it's more expensive (and riskier) for a college coach to consider a foreigner. From my experience, this is usually last resort after all other suitable US candidates are reviewed and discarded. Regarding point #3: I agree - that's where things should be (and currently are) equalized. Not allow older foreigners to compete against HS graduates. Also, I believe that there are more foreigners in college tennis than other sports because college tennis is truly a global sport (unlike baseball, football or even basketball). If it's not soccer, foreigners don't usually care about other sports.

"I believe, wholeheartedly, that there are numbers of TALENTED, DRIVEN, HARD-WORKING American junior tennis players who want to play college tennis if they are given the opportunity." Help me understand this: are you saying that they must be given the opportunity AND THEN they will start working hard? Sounds a bit backwards to me...

If several college rosters are constantly packed with foreign recruits, the message sent to parents and juniors are that the opportunity or chances to be there is not wide open for American kids. That is another point that discourage or turn kids away to other sports.

BTW, stereotype that American juniors are lazy and whiney was indicated in your posts and ....I hope no college coaches believe that.

[Number1Coach]

Originally Posted by donnymac10s

Points 1 and 2: I disagree. I don't believe that college coaches stereotype players based on nationality. The fact is that with a lot of tournaments being played, they form an opinion based on direct observation and conversation with people (other coaches) who are familiar with the players in question. Also, it's more expensive (and riskier) for a college coach to consider a foreigner. From my experience, this is usually last resort after all other suitable US candidates are reviewed and discarded. Regarding point #3: I agree - that's where things should be (and currently are) equalized. Not allow older foreigners to compete against HS graduates. Also, I believe that there are more foreigners in college tennis than other sports because college tennis is truly a global sport (unlike baseball, football or even basketball). If it's not soccer, foreigners don't usually care about other sports.

"I believe, wholeheartedly, that there are numbers of TALENTED, DRIVEN, HARD-WORKING American junior tennis players who want to play college tennis if they are given the opportunity." Help me understand this: are you saying that they must be given the opportunity AND THEN they will start working hard? Sounds a bit backwards to me...

People don't get it you must start young and have them in advanced conditioning by the time they are 14cause the spots they will be fighting for will be against men , our player certain times of the year is doing 2 a days in the weight room to have the edge if he ever wanted to go to college , trust me at this point he could choose and pick in 3 years.

[donnymac10s]

Originally Posted by 10ismom

If several college rosters are constantly packed with foreign recruits, the message sent to parents and juniors are that the opportunity or chances to be there is not wide open for American kids. That is another point that discourage or turn kids away to other sports.

BTW, stereotype that American juniors are lazy and whiney was indicated in your posts and ....I hope no college coaches believe that.

I am not in the business of recruiting players or in performing player due diligence for college coaches. College coaches are grown-ups and they know more than tennis parents give them credit for.

If several college rosters are constantly packed with foreign recruits, the message that the parents SHOULD get is: have your kids work harder and stop being so picky when it comes to schools. I have had several discussions with current coaches at great D-1 schools (perhaps not "great" in tennis) who say that it's difficult to get Americans to play at their programs because: 1. the school doesn't have a great Football team (foreigners don't care about that); 2. the school is in a small town and there's nothing to do (foreigners don't care about that); 3. the school is in some fly-over state (foreigners don't care about that); 4. the school doesn't have a robust sorority/fraternity system (foreigners don't care about that). At the same time, the coaches are under a great deal of pressure to be competitive in order to save the programs and their own jobs! What are they to do? Go with the Americans who want to play there (but who are simply not good enough) and have the tennis programs chopped because it's not competitive enough?! I appreciate your convictions but you have to look at the whole picture.

[Tennishacker]

Originally Posted by donnymac10s

I am not in the business of recruiting players or in performing player due diligence for college coaches. College coaches are grown-ups and they know more than tennis parents give them credit for.

If several college rosters are constantly packed with foreign recruits, the message that the parents SHOULD get is: have your kids work harder and stop being so picky when it comes to schools. I have had several discussions with current coaches at great D-1 schools (perhaps not "great" in tennis) who say that it's difficult to get Americans to play at their programs because: 1. the school doesn't have a great Football team (foreigners don't care about that); 2. the school is in a small town and there's nothing to do (foreigners don't care about that); 3. the school is in some fly-over state (foreigners don't care about that); 4. the school doesn't have a robust sorority/fraternity system (foreigners don't care about that). At the same time, the coaches are under a great deal of pressure to be competitive in order to save the programs and their own jobs! What are they to do? Go with the Americans who want to play there (but who are simply not good enough) and have the tennis programs chopped because it's not competitive enough?! I appreciate your convictions but you have to look at the whole picture.

I have to disagree.

Your views are skewed. Your post sounds like you are working with wealthy kids, who think they are entitled to everything.
Reality is that there is a large pool of middle class junior players who can't qualify for finaid, and are dependent on their parents for financial support for college.
These kids worked hard at their games/academics, playing the USTA tournament system, but they have no chance against a foreigner.

[donnymac10s]

Originally Posted by Tennishacker

I have to disagree.

Your views are skewed. Your post sounds like you are working with wealthy kids, who think they are entitled to everything.
Reality is that there is a large pool of middle class junior players who can't qualify for finaid, and are dependent on their parents for financial support for college.
These kids worked hard at their games/academics, playing the USTA tournament system, but they have no chance against a foreigner.

You're partially accurate. Some of the kids I've had the pleasure to work with (and they were all a pleasure to work with) have come from wealthy backgrounds. However, some don't have a pot to p-$$ in and still act entitled. Have some of the kids you're talking about contact coaches from: Alcorn State, Allegheny College, Armstrong Atlantic, Arkansas at Pine Bluff, Augusta State, Austin Peay University, Barton College, Bethune-Cookman, etc. But no, our kids complain that they're not getting into USC, UCLA, Stanford, Duke or Virginia. It's not that they don't have a chance against foreigners...it's that they're limiting their choices to schools that are competitive. One of my college team-mates who is a D-1 coach at a school in CA just texted me and said "I have difficulty attracting American players to my program. I HAVE TO RECRUIT FROM OUTSIDE OTHERWISE I'LL LOSE MY JOB. American players don't find our school sexy enough"

[justinmadison]

Originally Posted by donnymac10s

One of my college team-mates who is a D-1 coach at a school in CA just texted me and said "I have difficulty attracting American players to my program. I HAVE TO RECRUIT FROM OUTSIDE OTHERWISE I'LL LOSE MY JOB. American players don't find our school sexy enough"

Why does the name of the school need to be a secret? Tell us the name so we can look up the school and see who is on the team and who is on the “interested” list on TRN.

[tennis5]

A dad said to me the other day, who played D1, that if he faced the same competition today, he is not sure he would get a spot.

This dad who did get a spot, years ago, has invested that love of tennis in his son.

Now, if the son doesn't get a spot,
will that junior then turn into a dad who then doesn't instill the love of tennis in his son
as he knows there are no spots for Americans?

It is a downward spiral for American tennis when you take away the opportunities.

Foreigners in American college tennis and the bizarre reductions that the USTA has coming up will be the nail in the coffin.

[donnymac10s]

Originally Posted by justinmadison

Why does the name of the school need to be a secret? Tell us the name so we can look up the school and see who is on the team and who is on the “interested” list on TRN.

Because he hasn't authorized me to release the name of the school (my friend's job being on the line). But check out the D-1 rankings and roster and I'm sure you'll be able to figure out the place.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by tennis5

A dad said to me the other day, who played D1, that if he faced the same competition today, he is not sure he would get a spot.

This dad who did get a spot, years ago, has invested that love of tennis in his son.

Now, if the son doesn't get a spot,
will that junior then turn into a dad who then doesn't instill the love of tennis in his son
as he knows there are no spots for Americans?

It is a downward spiral for American tennis when you take away the opportunities.

Foreigners in American college tennis and the bizarre reductions that the USTA has coming up will be the nail in the coffin.

D1 tennis at the top schools and conferences, just like basketball baseball and football are for Bluechips and 5 stars. If the kid is good enough he won't have any problems. If he's relying in a legacy, good luck to him.

[justinmadison]

Originally Posted by andfor

D1 tennis at the top schools and conferences, just like basketball baseball and football are for Bluechips and 5 stars. If the kid is good enough he won't have any problems. If he's relying in a legacy, good luck to him.

There are 263 NCAA DI men’s tennis programs. If they average 3 new players each year there are 789 spots. There are 25 blue-chip and 50 5 star players. That sounds pretty bleak for American tennis.

I guess if you count the top 25 programs that works out to 75 spots. If you go top 75 programs it would be 1 American and 2 foreign players for each school.

[justinmadison]

There are 950 men’s tennis programs. They break down to 263 NCAA DI, 161 NCAA DII, 314 NCAA DIII, 92 NAIA and 120 NJCAA tennis programs.

For men there are 4.5 scholarships for NCAA DI and DII programs, 5 per team NAIA and up to 9 for NJCAA schools.

I guess if it were limited to American players you could go to TRN and look down 2850 players and find the cutoff for kids playing college tennis. Unfortunately there are not 2800 players listed for any graduating year.

[andfor]

Originally Posted by justinmadison

There are 263 NCAA DI men’s tennis programs. If they average 3 new players each year there are 789 spots. There are 25 blue-chip and 50 5 star players. That sounds pretty bleak for American tennis.

I guess if you count the top 25 programs that works out to 75 spots. If you go top 75 programs it would be 1 American and 2 foreign players for each school.

And I said top schools, top conferences. 4 stars can also play in to the mix on occasion. That said there's plenty of options for 4,3 and even 2 stars at mid-majors and small DI programs. Your numbers back up what I've said all along. There's not enough Americans playing tennis to fill all the roster spots. Add in DII, DIII, NAIA and NJCAA programs and where are the coaches going to get there players?

[donnymac10s]

Originally Posted by justinmadison

There are 950 men’s tennis programs. They break down to 263 NCAA DI, 161 NCAA DII, 314 NCAA DIII, 92 NAIA and 120 NJCAA tennis programs.

For men there are 4.5 scholarships for NCAA DI and DII programs, 5 per team NAIA and up to 9 for NJCAA schools.

I guess if it were limited to American players you could go to TRN and look down 2850 players and find the cutoff for kids playing college tennis. Unfortunately there are not 2800 players listed for any graduating year.

One thing to keep in mind is that just because a division authorizes the issuance of scholarships it doesn't mean that the schools have the ability to, in fact, fund the scholarships.