On-line petition to have Bob Hewitt removed from the Hall of Fame

[Frank Silbermann]

Originally Posted by li0scc0

Generally there is no statute of limitations with respect to r.a.p.e.. What am I missing here?
Tilden was convicted.
Conviction>allegations.
This does not excuse Hewitt, but why the double standard?

Uh, I just gave one reason right above your post. Tilden's sex life was kept separate from his tennis. Hewitt, in contrast, traded on his position in the tournament tennis community to fish in those waters.

It is interesting that back in the 1970s and '80s when I read about tennis, the big scandal was not that Tilden's playmates were minors (I get the feeling they were in their mid to late teens), but that he was homosexual. Back then, the objection to having sex specifically with minors is that you were morally corrupting them (and that accusation vanished if the teen in question had already been corrupted, i.e., was not a virgin, when you first had sex).

Of course, any sort of sex outside of marriage was considered immoral in Tilden's era, and if you crossed the state line and had sex it became a federal offense (the Mann Act: "Transporting a woman across state line for an immoral purpose") and the FBI might get involved.

Hotels had their own private detectives to look out for people sneaking lovers into hotel rooms, just as they might today investigate a customer suspected of selling drugs from his room.

The 1970s was when the bohemian rejection of sexual morality (i.e., what, until then, had always been considered sexual morality) spread to the general population. For all we know, Hewitt might have told himself that he was liberating and enlightening these girls. (I suppose few wish to admit to being a selfish and bullying pig.)

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by li0scc0

Generally there is no statute of limitations with respect to r.a.p.e.. What am I missing here?
Tilden was convicted.
Conviction>allegations.
This does not excuse Hewitt, but why the double standard?

That's not true. But, more importantly, there was in virtually every jurisdiction 30 years ago. As for Tilden, I don't know what he was convicted of. But, IMO, for HOF purposes, statutory **** of a consenting older teen is far less offensive than forcible **** of a young teen or pre-teen.

[goat_player]

Originally Posted by Rock Strongo

I honestly think he shouldn't be removed as his personal life shouldn't reflect his achievements on court. Sure, what he did is unthinkable and unforgivable and shouldn't be a part of anyone's life but for the sole reason of it going out over what he did on court, I refuse to sign this.

Think about Pete Rose (Charlie Hustle), all-time Major League leader in hits (4,256), games played (3,562), at-bats (14,053) and outs (10,32. He won three World Series rings, three batting titles, one Most Valuable Player Award, two Gold Gloves, the Rookie of the Year Award, and made 17 All-Star appearances at an unequaled five different positions (2B, LF, RF, 3B & 1B). Yet he is ineligible for Baseball Hall of Fame for what he did, not as a player but as manager

[li0scc0]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

That's not true. But, more importantly, there was in virtually every jurisdiction 30 years ago. As for Tilden, I don't know what he was convicted of. But, IMO, for HOF purposes, statutory **** of a consenting older teen is far less offensive than forcible **** of a young teen or pre-teen.

The whole concept of statutory R.A.P.E. is that the YOUTH is not of an age to CONSENT.
So, Tilden R.A.P.E.D. children as did Hewitt.
Class acts, neither of them.

[newmark401]

Originally Posted by li0scc0

The whole concept of statutory R.A.P.E. is that the YOUTH is not of an age to CONSENT.
So, Tilden R.A.P.E.D. children as did Hewitt.
Class acts, neither of them.

One of the reasons why I have been defending Bill Tilden on these boards is because I know that, whatever he did with the two adolescents in question, in reality he certainly did NOT r-a-p-e either of them. In fact, from what I've read he didn't really do much with them, although what he did was, of course, against the law. That is why he was sentenced and served a certain amount of time followng each misdemeanour. And rightly so.

Now, if Tilden had really raped one of those boys, I don't think that he would have been let out of jail ever again. As it was, he was let out early for good behaviour after serving only part of one sentence (the first, I think). So those who would (still) have him hung, drawn and quartered are rather wide of the mark. And their lust for some sort of empty vengeance will never be satisfied.

[Frank Silbermann]

Originally Posted by li0scc0

The whole concept of statutory R.A.P.E. is that the YOUTH is not of an age to CONSENT.
So, Tilden R.A.P.E.D. children as did Hewitt.
Class acts, neither of them.

You're confusing law with morality. Just because the law uses the same word to refer to two different kinds of acts, or even punishes them the same, doesn't mean the two acts are morally equivalent. (And, so far as I know, Tilden's acts were limited to "heavy petting".)

[cork_screw]

Ouch, so much hate.

[BTURNER]

well to me, if there is a section of qualifications depicting the proper character of its inductees, that section should apply until it is removed or amended. That means there must be some scrutiny to the matters of character it described as relevant at the time of induction. It puts the committee in a precarious no/ win situation if those issues involve pending or possible legal action. they have to do a job they will do poorly.

my view of the professional organisations representing coaches or players ought not concern themselves judging conduct of inactive members like Hewett who no longer coaches in tennis. They no longer have to do the job at all.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by li0scc0

The whole concept of statutory R.A.P.E. is that the YOUTH is not of an age to CONSENT.
So, Tilden R.A.P.E.D. children as did Hewitt.
Class acts, neither of them.

And, in those cases, the statute generally begins to run when they become adults.

[treblings]

fyi
http://www.sportscentral.co.za/sheeh...-hewitt/14270/

[gavna]

Good for her to take a stand, hope some of the others are able to come forward so she is not alone.

[Crisstti]

Originally Posted by Frank Silbermann

You're confusing law with morality. Just because the law uses the same word to refer to two different kinds of acts, or even punishes them the same, doesn't mean the two acts are morally equivalent. (And, so far as I know, Tilden's acts were limited to "heavy petting".)

Yeah, this. I mean, the age of the boys or girls involved really should come into play here. It's not at all the same a 10 year old than a 16 year old (one is not even a child).

[ttbrowne]

I won't sign. Hewitt hasn't been convicted of anything. For all I know these women want money. Who knows? Maybe just some attention.
This begs the question...can a person really be safe against allegations from students. The only way is not to have anything to do with them. That means no teaching if you value everything you've worked to get. I don't trust kids. I make it a point never to be alone with them. It's too dangerous.
I'm gonna wait til Hewitt confesses or the proof is there.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by ttbrowne

I won't sign. Hewitt hasn't been convicted of anything. For all I know these women want money. Who knows? Maybe just some attention.
This begs the question...can a person really be safe against allegations from students. The only way is not to have anything to do with them. That means no teaching if you value everything you've worked to get. I don't trust kids. I make it a point never to be alone with them. It's too dangerous.
I'm gonna wait til Hewitt confesses or the proof is there.

I understand your point. But, to my knowledge, Hewitt hasn't denied the allegations either. That's a tacit admission.

[ollinger]

^^ no, that's on the advice of counsel.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by ollinger

^^ no, that's on the advice of counsel.

I don't know what counsel he's getting, but, he hasn't denied any of it, has he? Perhaps counsel thinks that a tacit admission is better than an express admission, or a demonstrably false denial.

[treblings]

i started this thread to inform posters here about the petition and developments in general.
i am drawn to this story because as a youngster i was a big fan of Hewitt/McMillan and once stood in line to get their autographs
haven´t signed the petition myself though, as i believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty.
the big news is that Hewitt is obviously brought to court now.
throwing him out of the HoF always seemed like a substitution for not getting him in the courts

[Leelord337]

If thats the case, Bill Tilden needs to be removed too. Word is he did the same thing back in the early 1900s.

Another sex offender in the tennis world, According to Vincent Spadea's book "diary of a pro tennis player", was pete sampras' old serve coach..Just can't think of the guys name off the top of my head

[Crisstti]

Originally Posted by Leelord337

If thats the case, Bill Tilden needs to be removed too. Word is he did the same thing back in the early 1900s.

Isn't Hewitt being accused of abusing 10 year old girls?. Not quite the same, IMO.

[slice bh compliment]

Originally Posted by Leelord337

If thats the case, Bill Tilden needs to be removed too. Word is he did the same thing back in the early 1900s.

Another sex offender in the tennis world, According to Vincent Spadea's book "diary of a pro tennis player", was pete sampras' old serve coach..Just can't think of the guys name off the top of my head

Pete Fischer. There is a thread about him here on TW. Sick. Sad.