Mikeler's Multis

[retrograde]

Originally Posted by Ronaldo

Weavability Supreme.

That would be a good name for a string

Originally Posted by Ramon

I did measure it one hour after stringing and it was 50.8 even though I requested 58. After that the drop was consistent with your observation. Maybe the string factor for density throws off the reading on this one.

Based on what I know about Racquettune's algorithm, if the same string factor is used for all the measurements on a racquet, the tension loss reported should be pretty good. The absolute readings may not be spot on though.

As a double-check for tension loss, try this ... Let's say one day RT tells you the frequency is f1. A week later, tension drops and RT says the frequency is a lower number, f2. The percentage of tension retained should be the square of f2/f1. In other words, the tension is now (f2/f1) * (f2/f1) * 100 percent of what it was when you measured f1.

When you do it this way, the string density is not a factor because it divides itself out in the equations RT uses. I'd be interested to see how well my theory holds water.

[JT_2eighty]

Originally Posted by Ramon

That's not too bad. It's tough for me to judge since I don't have a stringer so I can't take a fresh reading. I did measure it one hour after stringing and it was 50.8 even though I requested 58. After that the drop was consistent with your observation. Maybe the string factor for density throws off the reading on this one.

This is just due to the difference between reference tension, "string my racquet at 58 lbs", and actual tension: no string job will ever be at the reference tension as soon as it is strung.

Even gut, known to be the best at holding tension, will not be actually at 58 lbs even minutes after it had been strung at 58 lbs.

Although, I'm not disagreeing with you that multis do lose tension and their liveliness can surely be attributed to that tension loss as well as to their elastic nature.

Sorry, not trying to be a corrective nerd or anything, but many times people confuse a reference tension (what we string the racquet at) to its actual tension (the tension we play the strings at). I think most strings lose 7-15% of initial reference tension as soon as the knots are tied (or even before the stringing is complete). But this doesn't mean you need to compensate for this and ask your stringer to string at 70 lbs so you can play it at an actual 58. The reference tension is more important, in my opinion, because that's what we can control: the starting point, and determine if that starting point allowed for a good playing experience for a long enough duration to fit your needs.

Anyhow, I'm done derailing threads for today.

[Ramon]

Originally Posted by retrograde

Based on what I know about Racquettune's algorithm, if the same string factor is used for all the measurements on a racquet, the tension loss reported should be pretty good. The absolute readings may not be spot on though.

As a double-check for tension loss, try this ... Let's say one day RT tells you the frequency is f1. A week later, tension drops and RT says the frequency is a lower number, f2. The percentage of tension retained should be the square of f2/f1. In other words, the tension is now (f2/f1) * (f2/f1) * 100 percent of what it was when you measured f1.

When you do it this way, the string density is not a factor because it divides itself out in the equations RT uses. I'd be interested to see how well my theory holds water.

Originally Posted by JT_2eighty

This is just due to the difference between reference tension, "string my racquet at 58 lbs", and actual tension: no string job will ever be at the reference tension as soon as it is strung.

Even gut, known to be the best at holding tension, will not be actually at 58 lbs even minutes after it had been strung at 58 lbs.

Although, I'm not disagreeing with you that multis do lose tension and their liveliness can surely be attributed to that tension loss as well as to their elastic nature.

Sorry, not trying to be a corrective nerd or anything, but many times people confuse a reference tension (what we string the racquet at) to its actual tension (the tension we play the strings at). I think most strings lose 7-15% of initial reference tension as soon as the knots are tied (or even before the stringing is complete). But this doesn't mean you need to compensate for this and ask your stringer to string at 70 lbs so you can play it at an actual 58. The reference tension is more important, in my opinion, because that's what we can control: the starting point, and determine if that starting point allowed for a good playing experience for a long enough duration to fit your needs.

Anyhow, I'm done derailing threads for today.

Hey guys, I'm not stupid. I have 2 graduate degrees and a scientific and business background. I know the difference between relative and absolute and took advanced calculus, physics, and chemistry in college, so you don't have to explain relative percentages to me.

I already said I don't have a stringing machine, so I don't have a fresh measurement. I can only guess. When I look at these measurements, the one that's important to me is how much relative tension I'm losing after the string has settled. That's why I only reported relative loss after settling in the past when I posted on this subject. In this particular case, the string has been settling for a long time, and it keeps losing tension one week after it was strung without touching a tennis ball, which is an interesting observation. It's probably not the only string that does that. I'm not some idiot who doesn't understand why string factors affect measurements.

[JT_2eighty]

Cool deal, no one was trying to say anyone was stupid. Just trying to be helpful, and if I said something you already knew, then maybe I helped someone else lurking in the thread.

Cheers

[mikeler]

I beat up the MSV control good tonight against a big hitter. It will break soon, so I'll be cutting it out tonight. Was not the greatest on my elbow and I had weird wrist issues with it. Full review tomorrow.

[retrograde]

Ramon,

I apologize if I offended you, that was certainly not my intent. I've always thought you have valuable comments in this forum.

[Ramon]

Originally Posted by mikeler

Strung up Prince Premiere Attack 16 last night. It was very easy to string up with the exception of the coil memory. A light prestretch would have taken care of that easily but I don't want to prestretch any multis I test so that there are less variables changed between playtests. Really nice feel bouncing the ball off the strings. Think this one has real potential.

I think you're right on that one!

Intellitour broke today. It was one of my favorite setups until I picked up PPA. I played with it for 2 sets. It's soft, doesn't feel like gut but feels like a high quality multi, low powered, good ball pocketing, good spin, and doesn't move a lot (for the first 2 sets at least). It didn't feel like the tension was too low, so my thinking is that the string factor makes the RacquetTune measurements deceivingly low if you don't adjust for it. I might even go looser next time for more power and feel. It may not be as crisp as RIP Control at the net and doesn't have the poly-type directional control that RC has. I have to make adjustments for touch shots after being used to RC hybrids (PPA tended to be a little long on drop shots), but those are minor issues. It's the most comfortable setup I've used in a long time. If it lasts more than 8 hours and doesn't drop off a cliff in performance and tension, then I'm done with RC.

If it lasts, then I hope you hate this string. It's priced at $9.50, so I hope you tell everyone it's just another Wilson Sensation!

Kirschbaum Touch Multifibre will be next. At over $14, it better be really good if PPA's durability and tension maintenance hold up. I have a set of MCS that I was going to try as a cross with RC, but that will have to wait until I become more familiar with PPA. I know it's a bit early to tell. I'm hoping that this one lasts.

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by Ramon

I think you're right on that one!

Intellitour broke today. It was one of my favorite setups until I picked up PPA. I played with it for 2 sets. It's soft, doesn't feel like gut but feels like a high quality multi, low powered, good ball pocketing, good spin, and doesn't move a lot (for the first 2 sets at least). It didn't feel like the tension was too low, so my thinking is that the string factor makes the RacquetTune measurements deceivingly low if you don't adjust for it. I might even go looser next time for more power and feel. It may not be as crisp as RIP Control at the net and doesn't have the poly-type directional control that RC has. I have to make adjustments for touch shots after being used to RC hybrids (PPA tended to be a little long on drop shots), but those are minor issues. It's the most comfortable setup I've used in a long time. If it lasts more than 8 hours and doesn't drop off a cliff in performance and tension, then I'm done with RC.

If it lasts, then I hope you hate this string. It's priced at $9.50, so I hope you tell everyone it's just another Wilson Sensation!

Kirschbaum Touch Multifibre will be next. At over $14, it better be really good if PPA's durability and tension maintenance hold up. I have a set of MCS that I was going to try as a cross with RC, but that will have to wait until I become more familiar with PPA. I know it's a bit early to tell. I'm hoping that this one lasts.

I hit a few balls last night with PPA. My impression from just hitting 1 minute with it is that the power level was quite high. It was a very unique feel to it to, nothing that I've experienced with any other multi. Hard to tell from such a limited outing how it will perform in a match situation.

[Ramon]

Originally Posted by mikeler

I hit a few balls last night with PPA. My impression from just hitting 1 minute with it is that the power level was quite high. It was a very unique feel to it to, nothing that I've experienced with any other multi. Hard to tell from such a limited outing how it will perform in a match situation.

I was anticipating a higher powered string than Intellitour, so I strung PPA at 58 instead of my usual 55. That still shouldn't make much of a difference. I did notice more pop on volleys and touch shots but groundstrokes were fine.

[mikeler]

Originally Posted by Ramon

I was anticipating a higher powered string than Intellitour, so I strung PPA at 58 instead of my usual 55. That still shouldn't make much of a difference. I did notice more pop on volleys and touch shots but groundstrokes were fine.

Ah, OK that makes sense then. I really think I'm going to like it but I need to break the XR1 first. At the rate I'm breaking these multis, I might get in some match tennis on Tuesday night with it.

[mikeler]

Here is my review in the TW format of the MSV Soft Control 16.

I strung up MSV Soft Control 16g a week or two ago. Pretty easy to work with. I did notice some clamp ghosting. Seems crisp yet soft with the old ball bounce test. Also "feels" like a high quality string. I tried to look for the 3 strands of poly on the outside but could only spot 1 clear piece.

Tension it is strung: 60 pounds on a lockout machine full bed
Your regular string set up: Weiss Cannon Black 5 Edge 17 Mains(52#)/Genesis Thunder Blast 16 Crosses(56#)
Racket: Pro Kennex 7G (this is different than the others tested in the Babolat PST+)
String pattern of your racquet: 16 x 20
Power (or lack there of): Low
Feel: Average
Tension maintenance: It does not last long enough to worry about this. RacquetTune (RT) showed a 12.5% tension loss before I cut it out.
Price: $11.50/set, reels don't seem to be available in the USA.
Overall comments and feedback: See below

General: This is an average multi with below average durability.

Serve/Return of Serve: Could not get much pop with it. Second serves were getting attacked too often. Couldn't be too aggressive on returns without making errors.

Strokes: Was getting a decent amount of spin on both wings for a multi. Depth control was OK but I had a hard time flattening out shots when I needed to. Slices tended to float on me.

Net Game: It's good for volleys but not great.

Touch shots: Average. I had only 1 drop shot that was an absolute winner.

Softness: The string softness felt about average but my elbow was bothering me last night and this morning. I also developed a light pain on the back of my hand both times I used it. So I would not recommend it for arm sufferers.

Tension: Since this is a poly/multi blend, it makes sense that a lower tension might work better for this string. Still, the majority of this string is not poly. The conditions were very hot and fast last night so I was surprised by the lack of pop. My arm felt like it was going to fall off from swinging so hard.

Durability: After about 2 sets, I was noticing some wear at numerous string intersections. After about 3.5 sets, I decided to cut it out since I knew it would pop soon and it was giving me some arm issues.

Movement: The strings did not move much the first set, but after that the mains would move some but the crosses stayed mostly locked in place.

Conclusion: I can't recommend this string due to the lack of durability and arm comfort especially for a string that is above $10.

[Kcraig]

Originally Posted by mikeler

Here is my review in the TW format of the MSV Soft Control 16.

I strung up MSV Soft Control 16g a week or two ago. Pretty easy to work with. I did notice some clamp ghosting. Seems crisp yet soft with the old ball bounce test. Also "feels" like a high quality string. I tried to look for the 3 strands of poly on the outside but could only spot 1 clear piece.

Tension it is strung: 60 pounds on a lockout machine full bed
Your regular string set up: Weiss Cannon Black 5 Edge 17 Mains(52#)/Genesis Thunder Blast 16 Crosses(56#)
Racket: Pro Kennex 7G (this is different than the others tested in the Babolat PST+)
String pattern of your racquet: 16 x 20
Power (or lack there of): Low
Feel: Average
Tension maintenance: It does not last long enough to worry about this. RacquetTune (RT) showed a 12.5% tension loss before I cut it out.
Price: $11.50/set, reels don't seem to be available in the USA.
Overall comments and feedback: See below

General: This is an average multi with below average durability.

Serve/Return of Serve: Could not get much pop with it. Second serves were getting attacked too often. Couldn't be too aggressive on returns without making errors.

Strokes: Was getting a decent amount of spin on both wings for a multi. Depth control was OK but I had a hard time flattening out shots when I needed to. Slices tended to float on me.

Net Game: It's good for volleys but not great.

Touch shots: Average. I had only 1 drop shot that was an absolute winner.

Softness: The string softness felt about average but my elbow was bothering me last night and this morning. I also developed a light pain on the back of my hand both times I used it. So I would not recommend it for arm sufferers.

Tension: Since this is a poly/multi blend, it makes sense that a lower tension might work better for this string. Still, the majority of this string is not poly. The conditions were very hot and fast last night so I was surprised by the lack of pop. My arm felt like it was going to fall off from swinging so hard.

Durability: After about 2 sets, I was noticing some wear at numerous string intersections. After about 3.5 sets, I decided to cut it out since I knew it would pop soon and it was giving me some arm issues.

Movement: The strings did not move much the first set, but after that the mains would move some but the crosses stayed mostly locked in place.

Conclusion: I can't recommend this string due to the lack of durability and arm comfort especially for a string that is above $10.

Enough for me---PASS!!!

[mikeler]

Cut my sets of Signum Pro Micronite last night. It is a true multi versus a solid core with multi wraps which I typically like. Hopefully I can string it up tonight and at least get a minute of hitting with it tomorrow.

[mikeler]

Got about 2 hours in with XR1 today. Tecnifibre just makes good multis. It is fraying like crazy and I have 2 hard hitters on Tuesday and Thursday. I'll frankly be surprised if it survives Tuesday.

Hit for about 1 minute with Signum Pro Micronite today. Man that is a comfortable string. Got Prince Premiere Attack before Micronite. After that test, I'll try the Boris Becker multi out and then it will be the battle of the premium multis with Klip Venom, Kirschbaum Multifibre and Wilson NXT.

I cleaned out a drawer today and found what looks to be 2 half sets of Wilson Reaction. So that may get added to the playtest too. Also will be trying a Yonex 80% natural gut/20% multi prototype. Plenty of playtesting the next 2 months and then hopefully back to the mikeler matchup by then.

[Ramon]

I just tried ordering more sets of PPA from TW. The 17's were all gone. The 16 naturals were gone. The 16 blacks were supposedly in stock, but when I finalized my order, it said "pending".

What's going on? I sure hope they don't raise the price.

[mikeler]

^^^ Not a good sign. I'll give it a crappy review even if I like it.

[JackB1]

Hey Mikeler, are you back to multis again? I though you had switched to polys?

Anyway, I was wondering what you thought were the MOST POWERFUL multis you have tried so far? I need to juice up my Prestige S and want the most powerful string out there.

[mikeler]

I am back to multis to prevent TE. Look at the multis I tested below the dashed line in post #1 for powerful multis.

[Posture Guy]

mikeler....is the ranking order in post 1 still your preference ranking for these strings?

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by mikeler

I am back to multis to prevent TE. Look at the multis I tested below the dashed line in post #1 for powerful multis.

I guess we have very different ideas of powerful multi's and that's why string tastes are so personal and subjective. I thought Xcel, XOne and Prince Premium were very powerful multi's and I also thought Maxim Touch was lower powered???

If anyone's interested I have several packs of the original Maxim Touch available or to swap for more powerful multi's.