Is Djokovic now in the tier with Becker, Wilander, Edberg? - Page 2

5555 · 02-04-2012, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jean pierre

Vilas...

Vilas was never No. 1. Not even for only one week.

NadalAgassi · 02-04-2012, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abmk

another clueless statement from the clueless kiki ...

Djokovic >>>>> Vilas

Djoker's era is weak ???????? LOL, that's as much as a joke as Vilas's draws to win the AOs were !!!! ha ha .....

Vilas had one "legit" GS win, in a full field ....USO in 77 ....... FO 77 win was only because borg didn't play ..... And of course Vilas' AO wins were against joke, weakened fields ....

Djoker has beaten either/both of federer/nadal in his GS wins ......5 of them, all against full fields .......

For once we agree on something. Vilas is basically a 1 slam winner really. One could argue Djokovic was a better player even before 2011 began. Now he is in a whole other planet from Vilas.

jean pierre · 02-04-2012, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5555

Vilas was never No. 1. Not even for only one week.

Everyone knows that in 1977, Vilas was the world champion, like said the magazine World Tennis. ATP ranking was absurd at this period : the number one in 1977 was Connors, who didn't win a Grand Slam !

jean pierre · 02-04-2012, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

For once we agree on something. Vilas is basically a 1 slam winner really. One could argue Djokovic was a better player even before 2011 began. Now he is in a whole other planet from Vilas.

It's possible to say anything, but Vilas won 4 Grand Slams. On two opposite surfaces : grass and clay (even 3 surfaces because european clay and american clay are very different). Djokovic, Becker, Edberg, McEnroe, Sampras never did.

jean pierre · 02-04-2012, 01:45 AM

... and you can see here that Vilas's volley is much better than Djoko's volley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjXvN1p79Gc

Ok, I know Marks was totally unknown. But he did a great tournament, played a fantastic tennis, and beated Arthur Ashe in semi-final after saving a match point. He was like Verkerk, Lewis, Pecci ... One tournament players.

Talker · 02-04-2012, 01:54 AM

Djokovic still has a ways to go.
To his credit is winning against both Nadal and Fed where Fed is still a major force and Nadal is in his prime.

If Djokovic wins RG it will give him a career slam and four in a row, a few more weeks as #1 and probably enough for year end #1.
A short amount of time but huge stats for over a year with no end in sight.

5555 · 02-04-2012, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jean pierre

ATP ranking was absurd at this period : the number one in 1977 was Connors, who didn't win a Grand Slam !

It's possible to say anything, but Vilas was never No. 1

Quote:

Everyone knows that in 1977, Vilas was the world champion, like said the magazine World Tennis

In 1977, Tennis Magazine (France) ranked Borg #1. Lance Tingay of the London Daily Telegraph and Rino Tommasi of Rome's Tennis Club magazine also rated Borg first. ATP awarded Borg "Player of The Year". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World-n...layer_rankings

kiki · 02-04-2012, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abmk

another clueless statement from the clueless kiki ...

Djokovic >>>>> Vilas

Djoker's era is weak ???????? LOL, that's as much as a joke as Vilas's draws to win the AOs were !!!! ha ha .....

Vilas had one "legit" GS win, in a full field ....USO in 77 ....... FO 77 win was only because borg didn't play ..... And of course Vilas' AO wins were against joke, weakened fields ....

Djoker has beaten either/both of federer/nadal in his GS wins ......5 of them, all against full fields .......

You are so clueless about Vilas...well, 2 more years of Djokovic vs Nadal, and tennis will sound as exciting as a FISHING contest...jajajajaja

kiki · 02-04-2012, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jean pierre

Vilas is more more more charismatic than Djoko, Vilas is a legend, and he's better too. He won on clay and on grass, he won 62 tournaments, he makes incredible records in 1977 : tournaments won in one year (14), and matches won consecutively (46). I think that saying "because borg didn't play" is absurd : who knows ? + that's not Vilas's problem.
About AO, a lot of people say that Vilas wins are not great victories, beacause he didn't beat top ten players, and especially Borg or Connors. I think it's absurd too. First, AO is a Grand Slam, you have to win several matches in 5 sets, so it's a great tournament. Second, it's not Vilas's problem if Borg and Connors prefered staying with their families for Christmus, while Vilas trained 7 hours/day on australian grass with only Ion Tiriac. And third, Vilas beated in AO great grass players of this era, like McNamara, Chris Lewis (Wimbledon finalist), Amaya ... And in 1978, it's not his fault if Marks beated Ashe in semi-final (it's sure that Vilas-Ashe would be a greater final than Vilas-Marks). And, last point, on january 75, in the Masters, on australian grass, Vilas beated Borg, Nastase and Newcombe !!

... and more important, during Vilas playing years he had to face: Connors,Borg,Mc Enroe,Newcombe,Gerulaitis,Nastase,Orantes,Panatta, Laver,Ashe,Smith,Kodes,Rosewall,Lendl,Tanner and a few ones...

Djokovic rivals other than Nadal and Fed, just suck, they never even dreamed of winning something bigger than a Masters Series.Weakest competitive era since Tilden and the 4 Mousketeers...

kiki · 02-04-2012, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

For once we agree on something. Vilas is basically a 1 slam winner really. One could argue Djokovic was a better player even before 2011 began. Now he is in a whole other planet from Vilas.

Yes, they live in 2 planets.Vilas that one called " Golden era" and Djokovic that one called " weakest competitive era".True.

kiki · 02-04-2012, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jean pierre

... and you can see here that Vilas's volley is much better than Djoko's volley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjXvN1p79Gc

Ok, I know Marks was totally unknown. But he did a great tournament, played a fantastic tennis, and beated Arthur Ashe in semi-final after saving a match point. He was like Verkerk, Lewis, Pecci ... One tournament players.

Pecci was much more than a one shot guy.Great record along 1979-1981.great matches with Vilas, one specially at Washington (7-6,6-7,6-6 Pecci retired with cramps)

Vilas was a weak volleyer during his time, but would be superstar volleyer today...Djokovic and volley don´t fit in the same sentence.

jean pierre · 02-04-2012, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5555

It's possible to say anything, but Vilas was never No. 1

In 1977, Tennis Magazine (France) ranked Borg #1. Lance Tingay of the London Daily Telegraph and Rino Tommasi of Rome's Tennis Club magazine also rated Borg first. ATP awarded Borg "Player of The Year". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World-n...layer_rankings

Yes, and french Tennis Magazine received a lot of letters from their readers who didn't understand this ranking. For World Tennis (which was the reference at this era), Tennis de France, Le livre d'or du tennis, Eugene L. Scott (Gros plans sur le tennis), Michel Sutter ... Vilas was n°1. And ATP should recognize today the "mistake".

5555 · 02-04-2012, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jean pierre

Yes, and french Tennis Magazine received a lot of letters from their readers who didn't understand this ranking. For World Tennis (which was the reference at this era), Tennis de France, Le livre d'or du tennis, Eugene L. Scott (Gros plans sur le tennis), Michel Sutter ... Vilas was n°1. And ATP should recognize today the "mistake".

Can you find one reliable source which claims that Vilas was undisputed No. 1? There many reliable sources which claim that Djokovic is undisputed No. 1 http://www.anywhere.me/gresult?sourc...ed 2011&page=1

kiki · 02-04-2012, 05:31 AM

Vilas won 2 of the 3 majors, reached the final of the 4 th and the semis of the 5 th (Masters).results wise, he deserved the nº 1 spot.

It´s like 1989, with Becker winning 2 of the big 3 ( and being sf at the third, the FO) and yet, Lendl, who didn´t win a major, ended up ranked nº 1.

jean pierre · 02-04-2012, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki

Vilas won 2 of the 3 majors, reached the final of the 4 th and the semis of the 5 th (Masters).results wise, he deserved the nº 1 spot.

It´s like 1989, with Becker winning 2 of the big 3 ( and being sf at the third, the FO) and yet, Lendl, who didn´t win a major, ended up ranked nº 1.

That's true. Nobody can seriously say that Vilas is not the world champion in 1977. It's totally absurd.

kiki · 02-04-2012, 05:46 AM

In any case, Vilas played more years than 1977...

He was always a factor, from 1974-1979 in any GS, except Wimbly...played several times the USO sf and FO sf, was beaten in 2 FO finals by his nemesis Bjorn Borg, who also defeated him at the 1976 WCT Finals, after Vilas beat the swede, 2 years early, at the Kooyong´s Masters.

Vilas never did well enough at Wimbledon, but he didn´t have the talent to adjust to ultra fast London´s grass, while he had a month or so to prepare for Australian Open´s Grass...

from 1979 to 1983, Vilas was not one of the favourites to win a slam title, but I remember seeing him play extremely well in the first half of 1982 ( FO finalist, USo and Masters SF, winner of 4 or 5 TMS, beating handiliy Connors,Lendl in venues like Milan,Rotterdam,Madrid and Montecarlo)

all in all, one of the best representatives of the golden era.

jean pierre · 02-04-2012, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki

In any case, Vilas played more years than 1977...

He was always a factor, from 1974-1979 in any GS, except Wimbly...played several times the USO sf and FO sf, was beaten in 2 FO finals by his nemesis Bjorn Borg, who also defeated him at the 1976 WCT Finals, after Vilas beat the swede, 2 years early, at the Kooyong´s Masters.

Vilas never did well enough at Wimbledon, but he didn´t have the talent to adjust to ultra fast London´s grass, while he had a month or so to prepare for Australian Open´s Grass...

from 1979 to 1983, Vilas was not one of the favourites to win a slam title, but I remember seeing him play extremely well in the first half of 1982 ( FO finalist, USo and Masters SF, winner of 4 or 5 TMS, beating handiliy Connors,Lendl in venues like Milan,Rotterdam,Madrid and Montecarlo)

all in all, one of the best representatives of the golden era.

Very good post. I agree. Vilas is a real legend. The only real disappointment in his career is the French final against Wilander. He should win that match, and his fifth and last Grand Slam. He was unlucky, because he has a set point in the second set. But he lost.
But from 1973 to 1983, he was in the top ten, and even in the top five. Played a lot of great matches. He was also a fantastic Davis Cup player, even if Argentina didn't win the Cup : but Vilas in Buenos Aires won fantastic matches against McEnroe, Noah ... Fantastic period for the tennis. He did a come back in 1992, at 40 years, won a few matches and was in the top 400 ! Vilas loves the tennis.

hoodjem · 02-04-2012, 06:01 AM

I really liked Vilas's clay-court game (and I loved his Head racquet). On my OAT-list, I have Vilas behind Djokovic already: Vilas at no. 31 and Djokovic at 25.

Djokovic can easily move up; Vilas can only go down.

abmk · 02-04-2012, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiki

You are so clueless about Vilas...well, 2 more years of Djokovic vs Nadal, and tennis will sound as exciting as a FISHING contest...jajajajaja

oh then enlighten me, oh wise one , which part did I get wrong about Vilas' GS victories ......

The joke AO fields or borg missing the FO ?

LMAO !

Face it , djoker >>>>>> vilas .....Only in your la la land of nostalgia, Vilas is close to Djoker , not in the land of reality ...

kiki · 02-04-2012, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abmk

oh then enlighten me, oh wise one , which part did I get wrong about Vilas' GS victories ......

The joke AO fields or borg missing the FO ?

LMAO !

Face it , djoker >>>>>> vilas .....only in your la la land of nostalgia, Vilas is even close to Djoker , not the land of reality ...

What drugs do you take, young babies, to endure a Djokovic vs Nadal match? Any suggestion?

02-04-2012, 05:31 AM	#34
kiki G.O.A.T. Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 10,501	Vilas won 2 of the 3 majors, reached the final of the 4 th and the semis of the 5 th (Masters).results wise, he deserved the nº 1 spot. It´s like 1989, with Becker winning 2 of the big 3 ( and being sf at the third, the FO) and yet, Lendl, who didn´t win a major, ended up ranked nº 1. __________________ " I have watched plenty of matches of the 70´s and 80´s" ABMK, the historian

02-04-2012, 05:46 AM	#36
kiki G.O.A.T. Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 10,501	In any case, Vilas played more years than 1977... He was always a factor, from 1974-1979 in any GS, except Wimbly...played several times the USO sf and FO sf, was beaten in 2 FO finals by his nemesis Bjorn Borg, who also defeated him at the 1976 WCT Finals, after Vilas beat the swede, 2 years early, at the Kooyong´s Masters. Vilas never did well enough at Wimbledon, but he didn´t have the talent to adjust to ultra fast London´s grass, while he had a month or so to prepare for Australian Open´s Grass... from 1979 to 1983, Vilas was not one of the favourites to win a slam title, but I remember seeing him play extremely well in the first half of 1982 ( FO finalist, USo and Masters SF, winner of 4 or 5 TMS, beating handiliy Connors,Lendl in venues like Milan,Rotterdam,Madrid and Montecarlo) all in all, one of the best representatives of the golden era. __________________ " I have watched plenty of matches of the 70´s and 80´s" ABMK, the historian

02-04-2012, 06:01 AM	#38
hoodjem Legend Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bierlandt Posts: 9,964	I really liked Vilas's clay-court game (and I loved his Head racquet). On my OAT-list, I have Vilas behind Djokovic already: Vilas at no. 31 and Djokovic at 25. Djokovic can easily move up; Vilas can only go down. __________________ The smart man thinks he knows a lot; the wise man is aware that he knows little.

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