Which One Do You Prefer to see Happen?

[OddJack]

Originally Posted by Mick

it sounds like a line from a mission: impossible movie,

"your mission, rafa is to stop novak djokovic from winning the grand slam"

i think if nadal plays djokovic in the RG final, it's going to be another battle similar to the one in melbourne and it is much tougher for nadal to stop djokovic than federer at RG because there's no tactic from nadal that works against him.

Why similar to Melbourne? Looking at their clay clashes Djoker 2.0 has had easier time beating him on clay. Even Fed_Nadal final in FO wasnt too different from Fed_Nadal in AO. Djoker may beat him in 3 or 4 sets. Nadal is good at ignoring the crowd, but the recent history between him and DJok may, and I think will, make it a bigger factor.

[zagor]

Originally Posted by kragster

Zag I really like your posts but I think you have become somewhat disillusioned about what Nadal fans say and think because of a handful of ********s. I think the fact that these aforementioned guys create the most noise makes it appear that all Rafa fans think X or Y but nothing is further than the truth. I could just as well generalize the opinions of Fed fans based on the extreme hatred that folks like Aphex, or Cdestroyer or Dudeski have to say but I know that's not true because I see some greats posts from you and Towser and Hitman etc.

I don't consider Nadal fans who are overly pessimistic/superstitious(believe in jinxing nonsense) to be ********s, same for Fed fans who vote for him to win every tourney(I wouldn't be surprised if Fed had most votes on the inevitable "who will win 2012 FO" thread), it's just a different mindset. What my point is that precisely because of such a different mindset the results of some random TW poll can't be taken for granted and hardly prove anything.

It would be similar to me saying that the fact that Nadal news thread has so many pages(far more than any other player here, including Fed) proves he has the most fans here.

[Mick]

Originally Posted by OddJack

Why similar to Melbourne? Looking at their clay clashes Djoker 2.0 has had easier time beating him on clay. Even Fed_Nadal final in FO wasnt too different from Fed_Nadal in AO. Djoker may beat him in 3 or 4 sets. Nadal is good at ignoring the crowd, but the recent history between him and DJok may, and I think will, make it a bigger factor.

you could be right. imo, it would be a shorter match if nadal doesn't play well. it's tough to face someone who has beat you 7 times in a row in big final matches. the odd is clearly in djokovic's favor but who knows, crazy things could happen like they could both get eliminated

[devila]

will federer be the rich man's roddick when djoker plays him like a drum this year?

[kragster]

Originally Posted by zagor

I don't consider Nadal fans who are overly pessimistic/superstitious(believe in jinxing nonsense) to be ********s, same for Fed fans who vote for him to win every tourney(I wouldn't be surprised if Fed had most votes on the inevitable "who will win 2012 FO" thread), it's just a different mindset. What my point is that precisely because of such a different mindset the results of some random TW poll can't be taken for granted and hardly prove anything.

It would be similar to me saying that the fact that Nadal news thread has so many pages(far more than any other player here, including Fed) proves he has the most fans here.

Fair enough , perhaps this poll in itself is not sufficient evidence but combined with every other poll, I think you could take it as evidence that this forum ( and life !) is skewed towards Fed fans. Pretty much every poll fed goes up against Rafa, fed wins overwhelmingly ( except ped polls lol). Many of these he deserves to win but there are a few that should be a lot closer. If I did a poll of Feds clay resume vs Rafas HC resume, I think an unbiased person would put it somewhere at 50-50 ( Rafa has more titles but Fed has mainly only lost to Rafa). On this forum I'm almost certain it would be like 70-30 fed.

[Magnus]

I want to see Nadal losing in the first round of the FO, sue me.

[zagor]

Originally Posted by kragster

Fair enough , perhaps this poll in itself is not sufficient evidence but combined with every other poll, I think you could take it as evidence that this forum ( and life !) is skewed towards Fed fans. Pretty much every poll fed goes up against Rafa, fed wins overwhelmingly ( except ped polls lol). Many of these he deserves to win but there are a few that should be a lot closer. If I did a poll of Feds clay resume vs Rafas HC resume, I think an unbiased person would put it somewhere at 50-50 ( Rafa has more titles but Fed has mainly only lost to Rafa). On this forum I'm almost certain it would be like 70-30 fed.

Yeah, you're probably right overall but I don't think the gap between # of Fed fans and Nada fans is as big as poll results would suggest.

Also at the moment in Aphex's "Level of play: Ralph 2010 vs Ralph 2011" thread 2010 Nadal is winning the poll so you can see when Nadal fans are motivated enough ( some of them sure love their decline theory ) they will vote.

[kragster]

Originally Posted by zagor

Yeah, you're probably right overall but I don't think the gap between # of Fed fans and Nada fans is as big as poll results would suggest.

Also at the moment in Aphex's "Level of play: Ralph 2010 vs Ralph 2011" thread 2010 Nadal is winning the poll so you can see when Nadal fans are motivated enough ( some of them sure love their decline theory ) they will vote.

Haha yeah I'm actually shocked 2010 is winning that poll. Incidentally I was looking at who voted for Rafa 2011 and outside of you, the majority of those selecting that option are the who's who of Rafa haters Lol. To be clear I'm not saying I think 2011 isnt a fair option, I personally think that it's quite close ( lower level on clay, higher on HC except USO serve. It's just interesting that a lot of polls ( for Fed and Rafa haters) have no meaning.

[jackson vile]

Originally Posted by zagor

Yeah, you're probably right overall but I don't think the gap between # of Fed fans and Nada fans is as big as poll results would suggest.

Also at the moment in Aphex's "Level of play: Ralph 2010 vs Ralph 2011" thread 2010 Nadal is winning the poll so you can see when Nadal fans are motivated enough ( some of them sure love their decline theory ) they will vote.

Wrong, we have seen numerous threads dedicated from Federer fans to Nadal's demise. In fact, they can't make up their minds their decline claims. It is no secret that the majority hate the fact of what Nadal did to Federer from day one of defeating him at the FO and other events. From that date they have claimed that Nadal would not make it to even 23.

Maybe it is time to start digging those back up, because I know none of them were Nadal fans.

[kragster]

Originally Posted by jackson vile

Wrong, we have seen numerous threads dedicated from Federer fans to Nadal's demise. In fact, they can't make up their minds their decline claims. It is no secret that the majority hate the fact of what Nadal did to Federer from day one of defeating him at the FO and other events. From that date they have claimed that Nadal would not make it to even 23.

Maybe it is time to start digging those back up, because I know none of them were Nadal fans.

While I agree that those threads exist, didn't fellow Rafa fans also create fed demise threads whilst claiming that fed is still at his peak and only being beaten because its not weak era competition.

[jackson vile]

Originally Posted by kragster

While I agree that those threads exist, didn't fellow Rafa fans also create fed demise threads whilst claiming that fed is still at his peak and only being beaten because its not weak era competition.

Exactly, it is a joke. It is using the **** talking points against themselves, however they don't see parallelism, hypocrisy, nor the humor.

[zagor]

Originally Posted by kragster

Haha yeah I'm actually shocked 2010 is winning that poll. Incidentally I was looking at who voted for Rafa 2011 and outside of you, the majority of those selecting that option are the who's who of Rafa haters Lol. To be clear I'm not saying I think 2011 isnt a fair option, I personally think that it's quite close ( lower level on clay, higher on HC except USO serve. It's just interesting that a lot of polls ( for Fed and Rafa haters) have no meaning.

I think Nadal's level off clay was higher on average in 2011 but his highest level was higher in 2010 (like 2010 USO for example which is the best tennis I'ever seen Nadal play on HC) so I'd say he was more streaky but also more brilliant in 2010. It's not an easy pick( I mostly voted 2011 as a goof, don't have a clear opinion on this one), 2011 Nadal might have dominated 2010 even more but his 2010 version might have put up a better fight against Novak 2.0.

Overall It's not easy to define peak/prime etc. for Nadal because his career isn't as clear cut as say Fed's or Sampras's is.

[zagor]

Originally Posted by jackson vile

Wrong

The people who voted 2010 Nadal in the poll in said thread were by and large Nadal fans so no, I'm not wrong.

Originally Posted by jackson vile

Maybe it is time to start digging those back up, because I know none of them were Nadal fans.

Be my guest LOLville.

Originally Posted by jackson vile

Exactly, it is a joke. It is using the **** talking points against themselves, however they don't see parallelism, hypocrisy, nor the humor.

Wrong, Nadal fans who claim(ed) his level dropped "massively" in 2011 compared to 2010 (or 200 certainly don't fit that description, they aren't drawing any parallels but rather giving their subjective opinion (that some of them try to pass off their opinion as a fact is a different matter) on Nadal's level of play in 2011/2012.

[kragster]

Originally Posted by zagor

I think Nadal's level off clay was higher on average in 2011 but his highest level was higher in 2010 (like 2010 USO for example which is the best tennis I'ever seen Nadal play on HC) so I'd say he was more streaky but also more brilliant in 2010. It's not an easy pick( I mostly voted 2011 as a goof, don't have a clear opinion on this one), 2011 Nadal might have dominated 2010 even more but his 2010 version might have put up a better fight against Novak 2.0.

Overall It's not easy to define peak/prime etc. for Nadal because his career isn't as clear cut as say Fed's or Sampras's is.

I think peak prime discussions make good talking points bt they don't really end up having much historical significance. Ultimately outside of this tennis forum it's only your accomplishments that you will be judged on . It does raise an interesting question though - who decides how to judge a players career - is it
A) handful of tennis experts like the McEnroes of the world
B) really avid tennis fans like us.
C) the vast majority of tennis fans who like tennis but are not so devoted like the folks on TT. The kind os fans who would watch fed vs rafa but who couldn't care less about tomic vs dolgo

[devila]

the subject of most nadal fans at the forum poll voting is no big deal.

fact is nadal played many davis cup ties and federer lost as soon as he faced 2 top 15 davis cup opponents who could put away a volley winner
in slams, federer had no difficult players in semis, repeatedly, until year 2007,

roddick lost all the time in quarterfinals & semis. he lost to all top 10 players in davis cup ties, but he played almost every tie because he believed he had no chance to win slams, etc. that was when he was number 2 or 3.
agassi, nadal & djoker were in slam finals in 2005 and later.

[Winner_DownTheLine]

Originally Posted by merlinpinpin

Yeah, but I mean, what's the problem? You might not agree with that, but most tennis fans are first and foremost--tennis fans. And you might argue that you can't be a tennis fan and not be a fan of Federer.

His popularity might be an issue for you, but it's easy to see where it comes from: at the moment, and for the last decade at least, he is the *only* one playing (or able to play) a total game. When you like tennis, and I mean all aspects of tennis, not just marathoning with a racket, none of the other guys even comes close, so the result of this poll really was a no-brainer from the start (and it would probably be the same everywhere else, except maybe at the Vamos Brigade or Serbian Whatever).

Simply put: do people who don't like Federer's game really like tennis? That might be worthy of another poll, and I could tell you the result before it is even posted...

Well said, I might not even bother with tennis when Fed retires.

[Sentinel]

Congratulations, dear Zagor on becoming Talk Tennis Guru.

I really thing Zagor and namelessone and even Lolville should be tested for PEDS (posting enhancement drugs) for their ability to carry on heated debates for 6 hours a day of absolutely highest quality posting with minimal errors (spelling/grammar), month after month without a rest.

Some posts contain a record number of quotes which earlier TTG's like Breakpoint and Bud never could achieve. This is truly a Golden Era at TTW. Enjoy it while it lasts.