Kids: how many hours court-time a week?

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by tball2day

Actually his post above for high level players is accurate. Top tier D1 or pro potential players put in 4-6 hours/day everyday that they aren't playing tournaments from around 13-14 on and for several years. From earlier ages to 14, they are doing the 2-4 hours after school as well, with a lot of tournament play. It is sustainable for the top players, and is how they get to the top. Well managed of course is essential. Problem is some parents don't invest in the better coaches and the player does end up injured. And as tennis5 said, easier done in the good climates of CA and FLA versus indoor country.

The post above this mentioning a couple hours after school is typically appropriate for those shooting for D2, D3 or rec player.

Sounds accurate to me.

4-6 hours per day, everyday, does not sound accurate to me for any junior (or most pros) in any sport.

3-4, I could buy.

[tball2day]

......................

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by tball2day

The academy programs run 4-6 hours during Mon-Fri, there are breaks in there of course and they are doing much more than just tennis. So training is prob more like 4.

I do not doubt that there are academy programs structured as you said.

Some academy programs I am familiar with give a day off on Monday after a weekend tournament. I have also seen programs where the mid-week (Wed) pre-school session is skipped for a sleep-in.

Now that I think of it, I cannot come up with another sport that routinely requires 4+ hours of daily practice for elite juniors..........or pros.

[klu375]

Originally Posted by tball2day

Actually his post above for high level players is accurate. Top tier D1 or pro potential players put in 4-6 hours/day everyday that they aren't playing tournaments from around 13-14 on and for several years. From earlier ages to 14, they are doing the 2-4 hours after school as well, with a lot of tournament play. It is sustainable for the top players, and is how they get to the top. Well managed of course is essential. Problem is some parents don't invest in the better coaches and the player does end up injured. And as tennis5 said, easier done in the good climates of CA and FLA versus indoor country.

The post above this mentioning a couple hours after school is typically appropriate for those shooting for D2, D3 or rec player.

Sounds accurate to me.

For an athletic girl 3-4 hours per week of one-on-one deliberate after school training plus tournaments on least half of the weekends and hitting around other weekends will easily deliver ranking inside TR 100. Could be 2x1hr with a coach and 2x1hr with a parent. This works for indoor people and should not completely break the bank.

[BMC9670]

By his own accounts, Isner trained 3-4 times a week no more than 90 minutes per.

...but he spent at least twice that amount of time each week working on his height.

[TheCanadian]

I trained with Greg Rusedski when he was 7-13 and we played 1 hour a day plus tournaments.

[Soianka]

Originally Posted by BMC9670

...but he spent at least twice that amount of time each week working on his height.

...........

[Mitch Bridge]

The top junior in the world has a 12 hour day, 6 days per week. This includes meals, massage, mental work, tennis training 3x daily, fitness 2x daily, physical therapy, studying video. The goals need to match the work. References from 20 years ago or even 5 years are not relevant to today's players. It is a truly global sport with only 250 men and 150 women making a good living at it. The competition is absolutely fierce. Soccer stars, basketball stars, martial artists, golfers: its 24/7. They played all day to become amazing! Tennis players have to do the same. Rusedski had 150 mph serve. Isner is 6'9. These guys can break some of the laws that others had to live by. There are many paths to play by but really only one to the top: all day/every day.

[slice bh compliment]

That is all true and it is both epic, amazing, amazing and epic. I would love to work that hard and get massages every day. But, truth be known ... my family is not interested. Solid academics and college tennis it is, haha...hopefully.

Nice, realistic goals with a balanced life, a well-rounded education and plenty of fallback options.

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by Mitch Bridge

The top junior in the world has a 12 hour day, 6 days per week. This includes meals, massage, mental work, tennis training 3x daily, fitness 2x daily, physical therapy, studying video. The goals need to match the work. References from 20 years ago or even 5 years are not relevant to today's players. It is a truly global sport with only 250 men and 150 women making a good living at it. The competition is absolutely fierce. Soccer stars, basketball stars, martial artists, golfers: its 24/7. They played all day to become amazing! Tennis players have to do the same. Rusedski had 150 mph serve. Isner is 6'9. These guys can break some of the laws that others had to live by. There are many paths to play by but really only one to the top: all day/every day.

Just to play devil's advocate here
On the one hand I do see evidence today in a lot of sports where
kids are playing every day, but the injuries have skyrocketed.

Kids have injuries today that were unheard of 20 years ago.
And it is all from overuse.

[TheCanadian]

I'd be curious to know what is recommended at various ages, from 5 to 15, let's say. Obviously, just a father and his son provides greater intensity than 4 kids on a court and a pro who might or might not give a damn.

[Mitch Bridge]

You can still play excellent tennis on 90-120 minutes of training per day. This training will need to be intensive ground strokes and net play. The serve will be worked on less and playing sets and practice matches are virtually out of the practice schedule due to the breaks in the play being less intensive than training. If you are already a very strong player, you can keep your strong with this amount of training. When a player is trying to make huge progress more time must be spent on the court. Developing the game is very time consuming and labor intensive. Plus, the more you play the more you have to take care of your body off the court.

In response to training recommendations for ages 5-15 years I think a 5 or 6 year old should play 2 or 3 times per week for 60 to 75 minutes, and should be playing several sports to develop overall athleticism. Ages 7-9 can play 3 times per week for 90 minutes plus play 2 or 3 other sports including soccer, golf, baseball, basketball, martial arts. Ten-twelve year old's should train 4-5 days per week for 2-3 hours depending on the type of work-outs. At 13 and up the player can train 15 hours and up depending on overall physical development, and this includes off-court injury prevention work for body balance, flexibility as well as strength and speed.

This training I would recommend for a player that wants to be world-class someday.

[justinmadison]

Originally Posted by Mitch Bridge

At 13 and up the player can train 15 hours and up depending on overall physical development, and this includes off-court injury prevention work for body balance, flexibility as well as strength and speed.
.

Mitch is right on target with the amount of time spent training. A key requirement is the off-court injury prevention work.

My son went through a three year period where he trained with the intent of playing in the MD of a junior grand slam. He used a heart monitor during all training sessions and checked the data with his coach once a week to evaluate total effort during practice. The monitor is also used to identify when a player is over or under training. If his data indicated he was reaching his limit they would back off on the afternoon practice matches until it showed he could continue.

This is what it takes to make it into a junior grand slam. It is hard for me to imagine what it takes to make it pro. I don’t see how it can be done while you are going to a public school.

Monday – off day

Tuesday – Friday
5:30 am wake up
6:00 am – 8:00 am -> hit with coach
8:45am – 3:10 pm -> school
3:30 pm – 5:00 pm -> Practice match
5:30 pm – 6:30 pm -> off court fitness -> injury prevention, speed, agility, strength
7:00 pm – 9:00 pm dinner and homework
9:00 pm – 9:30 pm down time
9:30 pm – Bed

Saturday and Sunday
Tournaments or Practice matches.
28 tournaments / per year, ~100 tournament matches

[maggmaster]

That is some serious dedication. Did he make it?

[jigglypuff]

Originally Posted by maggmaster

That is some serious dedication. Did he make it?

I hope he did... other kids don't have to deal with the 8:45am – 3:10 pm -> school.

[tennis5]

Originally Posted by justinmadison

Mitch is right on target with the amount of time spent training. A key requirement is the off-court injury prevention work.

My son went through a three year period where he trained with the intent of playing in the MD of a junior grand slam. He used a heart monitor during all training sessions and checked the data with his coach once a week to evaluate total effort during practice. The monitor is also used to identify when a player is over or under training. If his data indicated he was reaching his limit they would back off on the afternoon practice matches until it showed he could continue.

This is what it takes to make it into a junior grand slam. It is hard for me to imagine what it takes to make it pro. I don’t see how it can be done while you are going to a public school.

Monday – off day

Tuesday – Friday
5:30 am wake up
6:00 am – 8:00 am -> hit with coach
8:45am – 3:10 pm -> school
3:30 pm – 5:00 pm -> Practice match
5:30 pm – 6:30 pm -> off court fitness -> injury prevention, speed, agility, strength
7:00 pm – 9:00 pm dinner and homework
9:00 pm – 9:30 pm down time
9:30 pm – Bed

Saturday and Sunday
Tournaments or Practice matches.
28 tournaments / per year, ~100 tournament matches

He sounds dedicated. My question is not tennis related though....
How does he get all his schoolwork done in 2 hours?

[justinmadison]

Originally Posted by maggmaster

That is some serious dedication. Did he make it?

He turned 15 last July and decided he could not keep up the schedule during the school year. As you can see it pretty much eliminates everything except school and tennis. We ended up moving to Stockholm Sweden and his school here is even tougher than the one in the US. He has cut his training down to 8 hours per week and one tournament per month. He goes to Barcelona each summer for a couple of months and plays on the clay.

Watching his improvement this year it is pretty clear that he will not make it to a Junior Grand Slam. At 20+ hours a week he had improved from a 3 star 8th grader to a 4 star sophomore. To make a Slam you really have to be a blue chip. It is very difficult to improve from a 4 star to blue chip. He had a chance with the training schedule he set up but would have been very difficult.

This brings up an interesting question. Does anyone think a junior player can sustain the kind of work it takes to be a world class player without being “forced” or at least pushed very hard by their parents? One of the consistent messages I gave my son was this was his deal and his goal. I would support him all the way, but it had to be driven by him. I wonder if that philosophy has ever produced a world class player. My suspicion is very few kids have the drive necessary to sustain that level of effort for the 7 years necessary to pull it off without someone pushing.

[TheCanadian]

It's obviously a question of innate potential and raw talent. If the genetic material isn't there, it doesn't matter how many hours a kid spends hitting balls. This is true for all sports.

[maggmaster]

Disagree, talent is the least important aspect. I think it takes a rare child to make themselves do something like that Justin. There are a couple at my club who are on that track, only one of them is self motivated.

[Misterbill]

Originally Posted by TheCanadian

It's obviously a question of innate potential and raw talent. If the genetic material isn't there, it doesn't matter how many hours a kid spends hitting balls. This is true for all sports.

Wholeheartedly agree.

Can anyone give an example of an elite athlete in any sport who did not have innate potential and raw talent?

Does anyone really think that someone, regardless of innate potential and raw talent, can hit tennis balls....or golf balls, or baseballs or volleyballls......all day every day and voila, become elite in the respective sport?