Llodra fined.

[Bartelby]

If someone is bald and is sitting among people who have hair, I bet references to hairlessness is going to figure prominently in your insults if you think they warrant it, but does that mean you really have a thing about bald people?

This is the way of the world, but despite that ...

The fact is that his behaviour was impolite and borish and completely inappropriate anywhere in public, let alone a tennis court.

Originally Posted by DjokovicForTheWin

'Jerk' was just an example. Could have been 'Effing Jerk' or stupid F jerk, etc, etc Doesn't matter. You are angry at them and the words you choose should stand for what you feel. There is no value in pointing out she is chinese for a purely anger standpoint. So what if she was female and Asian, what's the point in pointing it out??????? The only reason is if he were racist towards chinese. What does he gain by saying she is chinese? All he needs to do is look at her and call her 'stupid' or 'biche' or whatever. Why chinese?



Then he shouldn't have been fined for being racist, which he clearly was.

[DjokovicForTheWin]

Originally Posted by Bartelby

If someone is bald and is sitting among people who have hair, I bet references to hairlessness is going to figure prominently in your insults if you think they warrant it, but does that mean you really have a thing about bald people?

This is the way of the world, but despite that ...

The fact is that his behaviour was impolite and borish and completely inappropriate anywhere in public, let alone a tennis court.

Yes! Indeed you do. But baldness is certainly not the same thing as race. Big difference. Impolite is calling someone stupid or jerk. Adding chinese to that makes it racist.

[DjokovicForTheWin]

So if Llodra was playing in Israel and he said to someone in the crowd, damn Jew, that wouldn't be racist huh? LOL. Let's see how well that goes over with the Mossad

[magnut]

We really need to get past this racism stuff and just start fining people for having opinions that we dont agree with.

Personally i think he should be fined just for being French reguardless of anything he says. The same goes for every other French player. Except Gasquet of course. He gets a pass because his off court training consists of hard work and making out with cocain snorting strippers. For this Richard can say whatever he wants.

[phnx90]

Originally Posted by DjokovicForTheWin

'Jerk' was just an example. Could have been 'Effing Jerk' or stupid F jerk, etc, etc Doesn't matter. You are angry at them and the words you choose should stand for what you feel. There is no value in pointing out she is chinese from a purely anger standpoint. So what if she was female and Asian? What's the point in pointing it out??????? The only reason is if he were racist towards chinese. What does he gain by saying she is chinese? All he needs to do is look at her and call her 'stupid' or 'biche' or whatever. Why chinese?

Then he shouldn't have been fined for being racist, which he clearly was.

I'm no native French speaker, so I can't think of words that are used like the word "jerk", which is more commonly used for men rather than women in English.

There is no point in pointing her race out of course, beyond the fact that it was his observation. She's Asian, so he thought she was Chinese. Then again, so would've anybody else. Calling her "chienne" (b_tch in French, IIRC) would've ostensibly made him a misogynist (and I wouldn't have thought so).

People forget that in the heat of the moment, we don't have the luxury of deliberated reasoning before we choose our expletives. If we had the luxury of rationalising our words, we'd have not said anything at all. Therefore pointing out the value or lack thereof of pointing out her race is irrelevant. We just use the words we use most often and try link it with the subject of our anger, and, in this case, since Llodra knew nothing about the woman besides her sex and race, it would've only been natural to use one or the other, or both. He chose race (and got it wrong).

He'd have been fined for being racist even if it were obvious to everybody that he wasn't, simply because it'd have been bad for PR to let an incident like that slide. Even more so the case because Llodra is white and male, and people love to accuse white men of racism. Hell, it's supposedly common practice for guilty "coloured" suspects to accuse policemen of racism when they get arrested.

Originally Posted by DjokovicForTheWin

Then he shouldn't have been fined for being racist, which he clearly was.

Not the same. We can't penalise people for things they haven't done yet. We can however, penalise them for what they have done, in much the same way that we can't deprive potential criminals of the ability of being a part of society by locking them up in prison before they have actually committed a crime.

[jmverdugo]

Originally Posted by DjokovicForTheWin

Yes! Indeed you do. But baldness is certainly not the same thing as race. Big difference. Impolite is calling someone stupid or jerk. Adding chinese to that makes it racist.

why? in this case he used the term Chinese to distinct her, that was the first thing that came to his mind, he is not saying that being chinese is a bad thing (I have the feeling that you guys really think that being called chinese is a bad thing!). He could have gone with other thing but I guess that saying ----ing woman with slanted eyes, black hair and red shirt was too specific?!

[Bartelby]

Adding Chinese doesn't make it racist, it merely adds a reference to 'Chinese-ness', to use a made-up word.

If you look at what he said all the derogatory references referred to 'woman-ness', to use another made-up word.

All three references are sexual. In fact, if you did substitute jerk for Chinese the meaning of the insults would not change.

All his derogatory utterances are about women, not Chinese women, just women. And that one woman he thought was Chinese, wrongly.

Originally Posted by DjokovicForTheWin

Yes! Indeed you do. But baldness is certainly not the same thing as race. Big difference. Impolite is calling someone stupid or jerk. Adding chinese to that makes it racist.

[DjokovicForTheWin]

Originally Posted by phnx90

I'm no native French speaker, so I can't think of words that are used like the word "jerk", which is more commonly used for men rather than women in English.

There is no point in pointing her race out of course, beyond the fact that it was his observation. She's Asian, so he thought she was Chinese. Then again, so would've anybody else. Calling her "chienne" (b_tch in French, IIRC) would've ostensibly made him a misogynist (and I wouldn't have thought so). People forget that in the heat of the moment, we don't have the luxury of deliberated reasoning before we choose our expletives. We just use the words we use most often and try link it with the subject of our anger, and, in this case, since Llodra knew nothing about the woman besides her sex and race, it would've only been natural to use one or the other, or both. He chose race (and got it wrong).

He'd have been fined for being racist even if it were obvious to everybody that he wasn't, simply because it'd have been bad for PR to let an incident like that slide. Even more so the case because Llodra is white and male, and people love to accuse white men of racism. Hell, it's supposedly common practice for guilty "coloured" suspects to accuse policemen of racism when they get arrested.

Fine so he keeps the observation in his mind, what's the point in explicitly saying she is chinese??????? What does he get out of it????? People wouldn't say oh look there walks a man on the street with shoes on. There is no point in saying he is wearing shoes out of the blue. And there was nothing Llodra could gain from making the out loud observation that she was chinese, unless it was racially motivated.

Even if Monfils said it, it would have been racist.

[magnut]

Originally Posted by DjokovicForTheWin

So if Llodra was playing in Israel and he said to someone in the crowd, damn Jew, that wouldn't be racist huh? LOL. Let's see how well that goes over with the Mossad

Depends....Is the guy in the crowd Jewish?

Does Lodra have some secret ties with the Nazis? If he does we could be talking hate crime and Mike may deserve some time in prison.

What fantasy world do you live in where French people are polite towards other cultures? Lodra is actually known for being a pretty nice guy on the tour. Last I heard he wasnt killing puppies and raping women in his spare time.

[DjokovicForTheWin]

Originally Posted by Bartelby

Adding Chinese doesn't make it racist, it merely adds a reference to 'Chinese-ness', to use a made-up word.

If you look at what he said all the derogatory references referred to 'woman-ness', to use another made-up word.

All three references are sexual. In fact, if you did substitute jerk for Chinese the meaning of the insults would not change.

All his derogatory utterances are about women, not Chinese women, just women. And that one woman he thought was Chinese, wrongly.

What's the point in adding the chinese reference???? What does he gain from it?

[DjokovicForTheWin]

Originally Posted by magnut

Depends....Is the guy in the crowd Jewish?

Does Lodra have some secret ties with the Nazis? If he does we could be talking hate crime and Mike may deserve some time in prison.

What fantasy world do you live in where French people are polite towards other cultures? Lodra is actually known for being a pretty nice guy on the tour. Last I heard he wasnt killing puppies and raping women in his spare time.

Well it is being played in Israel, so most likely he is Jewish, but it's irrelevant as long as he believed the guy was Jewish. I'm not saying anything about French people, I'm talking about Llodra.

[phnx90]

Originally Posted by DjokovicForTheWin

Fine so he keeps the observation in his mind, what's the point in explicitly saying she is chinese??????? What does he get out of it????? People wouldn't say oh look there walks a man on the street with shoes on. There is no point in saying he is wearing shoes out of the blue. And there was nothing Llodra could gain from making the out loud observation that she was chinese, unless it was racially motivated.

Even if Monfils said it, it would have been racist.

Edited my post, but looks like you didn't see it yet, so here:

People forget that in the heat of the moment, we don't have the luxury of deliberated reasoning before we choose our expletives. If we had the luxury of rationalising our words, we'd have not said anything at all. Therefore pointing out the value or lack thereof of pointing out her race is irrelevant. We just use the words we use most often and try link it with the subject of our anger, and, in this case, since Llodra knew nothing about the woman besides her sex and race to distinguish her, it would've only been natural to use one or the other, or both. He chose race (and got it wrong).

[Bartelby]

People focus on difference to define each other.

According to a previous post, this is what he said:

"putain foutu chatte chinois"

All the first three adjectives are misogynistic insults that men the world over use against women.

And if he wanted to use Chinese specific insults there's a multitude he could have chosen, but he did not.

Originally Posted by DjokovicForTheWin

What's the point in adding the chinese reference???? What does he gain from it?

[DjokovicForTheWin]

Originally Posted by phnx90

Edited my post, but looks like you didn't see it yet, so here:

People forget that in the heat of the moment, we don't have the luxury of deliberated reasoning before we choose our expletives. If we had the luxury of rationalising our words, we'd have not said anything at all. Therefore pointing out the value or lack thereof of pointing out her race is irrelevant. We just use the words we use most often and try link it with the subject of our anger, and, in this case, since Llodra knew nothing about the woman besides her sex and race to distinguish her, it would've only been natural to use one or the other, or both. He chose race (and got it wrong).

That actually makes it even worse. It means it's part of his instinct. It's built into his brainstem and the racism is deep within him that even if he tries to reason his way out of it, he will never realize it. It's ingrained in his being. Scary.

p.s. I am certainly not trying to be self-righteous here. I may be no better than him and perhaps have done the same. Wouldn't change that I was racist.

[DjokovicForTheWin]

Originally Posted by Bartelby

People focus on difference to define each other.

According to a previous post, this is what he said:

"putain foutu chatte chinois"

All the first three adjectives are misogynistic insults that men the world over use against women.

And if he wanted to use Chinese specific insults there's a multitude he could have chosen, but he did not.

LOL, you're a joke dude. He's angry at her and at that moment he's focusing on the differences she is relative to others because he want to write an essay on Chineseness to use your word? LOL. Get a clue. There was no reason for him to say chinese especially in that context. What if he had shouted so the entire stadium could hear and he said to her "BE QUIET YOU CHINESE" looking directly at her. How would that go over?

[Bartelby]

So you make up your own words, put them in LLodra's mouth and try to justify your stupid argument that way!

You don't even understand the French words quoted, do you?, because you don't know French.

If you don't know what he said in his native French than you're not entitled to have any point of view.

Originally Posted by DjokovicForTheWin

LOL, you're a joke dude. He's angry at her and at that moment he's focusing on the differences she is relative to others because he want to write an essay on Chineseness to use your word? LOL. Get a clue. There was no reason for him to say chinese especially in that context. What if he had shouted so the entire stadium could hear and he said to her "BE QUIET YOU CHINESE" looking directly at her. How would that go over?

[magnut]

Originally Posted by DjokovicForTheWin

Well it is being played in Israel, so most likely he is Jewish, but it's irrelevant as long as he believed the guy was Jewish. I'm not saying anything about French people, I'm talking about Llodra.

You are absolutely right. People of different cultures and different ethnicities should all be made to act the same. Otherwise we as "the good guys" can place labels on them like racist etc. That way we all keep our cultural differences, get along with each other, and allow each other to think and act differently.

Ya see how this works?

Or maybe we should just ignore people if they are rude or different and leave each other alone if we dont like them.

Do you honeslty think he should be fined money for calling someone chinese when he didnt understand she was Korean. So Lodra is rude and ignorant. Big deal, its not illegal to be rude or ignorant. If I call an Asian ....Chinese when they are Japanese should I be fined?

Sheesh. Maybe Lodra and this Asian chick should get married. They already have the lingo and banter down pat.

[phnx90]

Originally Posted by DjokovicForTheWin

That actually makes it even worse. It means it's part of his instinct. It's built into his brainstem and the racism is deep within him that even if he tries to reason his way out of it, he will never realize it. It's ingrained in his being. Scary.

Look, I'll explain it as simply as possible, because you seem rather intent on making Llodra look like a diehard, pillowcase-wearing racist. If I told you that Llodra isn't actually Nadal, despite also being a lefty, would that help? :P

Anyway:

1. Llodra doesn't know the girl's name
2. All he knows is that the person is FEMALE and that she's ASIAN
3. Most Asian people are assumed to be Chinese (partly because there are more of them than any other Asians, or anybody else for that matter)
4. Since he can't call her out by name, he would've needed something else to describe her. Only her nationality distinguished her, so he chose nationality.

[Bartelby]

Yes, its hard not to see the use of the word 'Chinese' as simply a means of identifying that person in a crowd.

And he hasn't used a phrase like 'damn Chinese", nor used the usual derogatory synonyms for Chinese nor the usual descriptors of Chinese people used by racists.

All his insults are directed at her femaleness.

But I don't have the definitive text of what he actually said in French.

[Cormorant]

I'm reminded of the Troicki-Ferrero match this year down under, during which Viktor had a fan chucked out for shouting: "Hey Troicki, how do you say choke in Serbian?" A lot of people claimed that guy was a racist, but I'm not sure if Viktor gave any reason for complaining other than that the guy was being annoying. The incident's on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDJOgQ19dJU