PV Audio's Playtest Thread

[alidisperanza]

Originally Posted by Icedorb217

Weather YES. Beautiful people YES. Complete mean ppl YES. Plus the weather here is soo moody. Like a 30 degree difference every day.

This post is meant to the off topic stuff on the previous page. Sorry if Im clogging the thread. Also PV can you try Iontec with OGSM?

Hm. Sounds like NY minus the beautiful people and minus the weather! I know it's an aside but I really enjoyed Chicago-- people are so nice there and the subways are so clean :P

Originally Posted by arche3

After awhile most players realise strings are really just strings. All the strings you reviewed have plus and minus. Too bad you didnt like the ltec. Many do regardless of the marketing. And the string is 20 bucks for most sets. Not going to break the bank.
The biggest plus of the ltec is the consistency of them till they break. And as far as i know noone here has actually played a set till 30 hours.

I think you got it right with the first half of this post but not quite the second. For those of us who do break strings in under 8hrs and don't have a high budget to allocate to tennis, it is definitely a break the bank factor. As soon as the summer comes around I'll be hitting outdoors much, much more and hopefully with better players-- a 5 hr poly better do something positive for my game and be cheap. I'm sure PV and many of the other testers would agree that it's simply not worth it.

Originally Posted by arche3

I think someone here at that high level needs to play the string till break. I made it to 20 playing some hard tennis. I can make it to 30 i would imagine as i play with my 11 year old a lot mixed in with some really good players. But i play a lot of top with an open pattern. If i used a smaller tighter pattern i can easily make 30.

The 0s 4s hybrid barely notches. I dont see a reason to doubt gosurferboy. Or his level. Frankly most posters on here can def use most string jobs way past 30 hours as they over estimate their level like crazy and how hard they hit.

A few posters have enjoyed the string. But not the hybrid set pvaudio played so its not really the same playtest.

I'm glad you're enjoying the string but when I read the above posts, I almost get the impression you're fishing for approval trying to justify PV's review (dare I say "trolling".) You're more than welcome to your opinion and ultimately the choice to use the string is up to you as a consumer. Opinions are opinions though and Yes, players like to puff themselves up but that's where you have to make a judgement call. PV has been open about the way he plays and has provided countless consistent reviews that have been regarded and echoed by many of the other posters on the forum. He's even posted video of his ability for those interested to judge for themselves. Frankly, I think he did a very good job of being objective with these strings.


Regarding the life of the strings, I'd be more than willing to playtest any combination someone would like from the point of view of a "stringbreaker." Heck, I'll even videotape my playing hours of the string for credibility but you can be sure I'm not going to shell out the money to do so. I simply can't rationalize it in my mind after all the hype and what I've been reading.

[fgs]

arche3,

if alu is the benchmark, then i do really agree with you that getting two times as much out of the string in terms of playability, then l-tec is a real treat.

my point about alu (i have soon the alu power rough on the line to test) is that after about three hours it is dead and starts getting on my shoulder rather seriously. the first three hours are almost heavenly, but then i found some other strings that maybe do a tiny little bit less in those first three hours, but just keep it going until i break them around 10. this is the reason why i don't want to afford playing with alu. i rather put the money aside and have it when (hopefully) i have to spend it on my son's tennis path.

while playability is definitely a factor for people with flatter strokes wanting to keep the poly-string playing "fresh" for a longer time, a really legitimate request, personally i have found very reasonable performance with strings that cost at least half the asking price of alu and keep it going within my time window. if i would go through strings in three hours, alu might have been an option, but paying a rather high price for 70% "down-time" is not my style.

basically the same idea applies to my interest in l-tec strings - while it is fine that they keep their playability on a high note, i would personally have no benefit if i keep breaking them within my current time window of 10 hitting hours. so, what i'm interested to find out is durability - the playability aspect seems to be confirmed by several posters, so i have no reason whatsoever to doubt it.

generally i don't like better players talking down the evaluations of lesser players. even a beginner does feel the difference. the issue is a completely different one - is he able to exploit the advantages offered by the different strings? at that level it is obviously more important to accumulate proficient and reliable stroking mechanics, but nevertheless they do feel it. it would be really funny having a person on his first 10 tennis lessons to talk about string x providing more spin, simply because i doubt that it is possible to acquire the technical ability to impart CONTROLLABLE spin to the ball. nevertheless that player could still tell you which string seems to have more power for instance. so, everybody feels it, but only experience tells him what exactly he does feel and how to eventually capitaliye on that.

[arche3]

I am not trying to get approval for a string? I was giving a different perspective as I think it is a very good string and I think a lot of people will like them. I use it now because I don't need to string as often and it plays well enough. I am mainly amazed it stays playable for longer than ALU and hits the same type of ball. But I am not a futures level player or anything like that so my needs are different. I just need a string that plays well enough so I don't embarrass myself. I have tried most of the strings out there for the past few years. often playing it for 1 hour then cutting it out. so I have a fairly large sample size for my game. I am naturally curious about the diff tennis strings so I played a whole bunch of them. I am going back to ALU to see what I missed or not very soon... But I will string very low this time at 45 instead of the 60 I strung at before (lowest was I think ALU at 52) . I still have a sneaking suspicion that low tensions will allow ALU to play as long as Ltec has for me. And the mini reels of ALU is actually pretty cheap if I recall.

It seems you get free strings anyways so if I did I wouldn't pay for strings either.

Originally Posted by alidisperanza

I'm glad you're enjoying the string but when I read the above posts, I almost get the impression you're fishing for approval trying to justify PV's review (dare I say "trolling".) You're more than welcome to your opinion and ultimately the choice to use the string is up to you as a consumer. Opinions are opinions though and Yes, players like to puff themselves up but that's where you have to make a judgement call. PV has been open about the way he plays and has provided countless consistent reviews that have been regarded and echoed by many of the other posters on the forum. He's even posted video of his ability for those interested to judge for themselves. Frankly, I think he did a very good job of being objective with these strings.


Regarding the life of the strings, I'd be more than willing to playtest any combination someone would like from the point of view of a "stringbreaker." Heck, I'll even videotape my playing hours of the string for credibility but you can be sure I'm not going to shell out the money to do so. I simply can't rationalize it in my mind after all the hype and what I've been reading.

[arche3]

for 10 hours between restrings I would probably go with a 7 dollar poly as well. It plays more or less the same within that timeframe compared to most polys anyways. for 3 hours between restrings i would string ALU no question.

don't mean to derail PVaudios thread... sorry PV.

Originally Posted by fgs

arche3,

if alu is the benchmark, then i do really agree with you that getting two times as much out of the string in terms of playability, then l-tec is a real treat.

my point about alu (i have soon the alu power rough on the line to test) is that after about three hours it is dead and starts getting on my shoulder rather seriously. the first three hours are almost heavenly, but then i found some other strings that maybe do a tiny little bit less in those first three hours, but just keep it going until i break them around 10. this is the reason why i don't want to afford playing with alu. i rather put the money aside and have it when (hopefully) i have to spend it on my son's tennis path.

while playability is definitely a factor for people with flatter strokes wanting to keep the poly-string playing "fresh" for a longer time, a really legitimate request, personally i have found very reasonable performance with strings that cost at least half the asking price of alu and keep it going within my time window. if i would go through strings in three hours, alu might have been an option, but paying a rather high price for 70% "down-time" is not my style.

basically the same idea applies to my interest in l-tec strings - while it is fine that they keep their playability on a high note, i would personally have no benefit if i keep breaking them within my current time window of 10 hitting hours. so, what i'm interested to find out is durability - the playability aspect seems to be confirmed by several posters, so i have no reason whatsoever to doubt it.

generally i don't like better players talking down the evaluations of lesser players. even a beginner does feel the difference. the issue is a completely different one - is he able to exploit the advantages offered by the different strings? at that level it is obviously more important to accumulate proficient and reliable stroking mechanics, but nevertheless they do feel it. it would be really funny having a person on his first 10 tennis lessons to talk about string x providing more spin, simply because i doubt that it is possible to acquire the technical ability to impart CONTROLLABLE spin to the ball. nevertheless that player could still tell you which string seems to have more power for instance. so, everybody feels it, but only experience tells him what exactly he does feel and how to eventually capitaliye on that.

[pvaudio]

Originally Posted by arche3

for 10 hours between restrings I would probably go with a 7 dollar poly as well. It plays more or less the same within that timeframe compared to most polys anyways. for 3 hours between restrings i would string ALU no question.

don't mean to derail PVaudios thread... sorry PV.

The point has missed you completely. Did you not notice the review that I did? I gave the string 8.75/10 as tennis string. As someone said (fgs I believe), tennis string is just tennis string. Some have their ups, some have their downs. This stuff does too. It's claimed to have only ups. Natural gut is still the best overall string that money can buy, period. It does everything above average, and obviously for the longest time was the professional's choice (still is for many). There are many many reasons why natural gut is the supreme tennis string and has stayed that way for over a century.

When polyester came about, it did not claim to give anything but more spin and more durability. It did that. You can swing at the ball harder and get more spin and not fear it sailing long because it's lower powered. Its material lends itself to longevity as well. It will never have the feel, comfort, power or outright control of natural gut. You get great passive control due to less power and more spin, but natural gut gives you so much feel that you can control your shots without the strings behaving unpredictably aka active control. All polyester manufacturers know that. The most any other poly manufacturer has claimed is to make a poly/multi characteristic string (Luxilon M2). While it does have some users, it is not coincidentally their most overrated and overpriced string.

Here comes L-Tec claiming the natural gut polyester, but with added flavor. It must be installed in speakeasy stringing methods, chosen in proper hybrid format, strung at a specific tension, chosen for your playstyle, your playing level, your racquet and your reference string. Once you've swept all that under the rug, then you've got the most amazing tennis string to hit the market. That's what they claim. They claim it to be, as Torres accurately put, impossibly good. This hybrid here feels like good poly, and that's it. It's polyester, and plays like polyester. It has nothing above and beyond anything already good on the market. Yet, I bought my reel of Signum Pro Tornado which does everything but feel above average for $81 overseas. So, I end up with a better string in a reel for literally less than 4x more than a single set of L-Tec costs.

So while you are indeed entitled to your opinion, $20+ is not chump change by any regard. For $7, you can put in something which plays identically well for the same amount of time that you'd be able to use it. In other words, you can keep on arguing that it lasts until the second coming, but that's irrelevant. If it's just fair stuff, it doesn't matter if it lasts forever because it's not even good to use. Let's say you get pizza for 3.99 which is a good deal, but it really doesn't taste all that great. Even given that price, you still wouldn't buy it. Now, we've got something that tastes like Papa Johns but costs $30/pie. Unless you take a bite and are immediately transported to Sicily, you would never opt for something that pricey unless it delivers (no pun intended) on its claims. You'd just get the Papa Johns instead.

Oh, and seeing as this was one of the recommended hybrids for how I like to play, I couldn't care less if someone else has tried this particular hybrid (which somehow discounts my results). The hybrid aspect is the entire point of L-Tec.

[alidisperanza]

Originally Posted by arche3

I am not trying to get approval for a string? I was giving a different perspective as I think it is a very good string and I think a lot of people will like them. I use it now because I don't need to string as often and it plays well enough. I am mainly amazed it stays playable for longer than ALU and hits the same type of ball. But I am not a futures level player or anything like that so my needs are different. I just need a string that plays well enough so I don't embarrass myself. I have tried most of the strings out there for the past few years. often playing it for 1 hour then cutting it out. so I have a fairly large sample size for my game. I am naturally curious about the diff tennis strings so I played a whole bunch of them. I am going back to ALU to see what I missed or not very soon... But I will string very low this time at 45 instead of the 60 I strung at before (lowest was I think ALU at 52) . I still have a sneaking suspicion that low tensions will allow ALU to play as long as Ltec has for me. And the mini reels of ALU is actually pretty cheap if I recall.

It seems you get free strings anyways so if I did I wouldn't pay for strings either.

Sounds like you have the right approach. Perhaps we are just reading things differently

[arche3]

Originally Posted by pvaudio

As someone said (fgs I believe), tennis string is just tennis string. Some have their ups, some have their downs.

I said that btw.

Also, I was not discounting your review. I did read it. but when you go on and on about the BS-Tec and how its impossible etc in the past..... Then your next breath you say, "I will give this my honest review" that is pretty funny. Way to set the tone of the review.

You also wrote about the wow factor of certain other strings. which is it? Are strings just strings or not? Or do some strings just WOW you? Personally no string WOWs me. I like aspects of certain strings.
Ltec I like because it plays the same for the first 15-16 hours at a reasonable performance level. I can hit the ball as well with other strings.

If your setting yourself up here as a string reviewer expect others to evaluate your level as a player and as an impartial reviewer.

[kiteboard]

Seems like he's ****ed off about their marketing program and price, and only tried one type of hybrid, and then condemns the whole line. Where was that attitude when laserfibre was ripping us all off? Instead, he defended them. (Saying who he talked to there, and how well they treated him, and how great their multi was, so on.) That's just not lining up esp. when you consider how many of us got ripped off by them... Now this new high control/good feel line comes out, and he rips them up, and why is that? No discount? The only other string similar to the os/4s is alu power, which loses its tension faster by about .5. It costs about $15/set.

[mikeler]

The price/value ratio only works if you love the strings AND they last a very long time. Otherwise, there are just too many other good strings out there that I can use.

[kiteboard]

Such as? None of them feel like the os/4s other than alu.

[fgs]

it is a while back since i played the regular alu (am going to test soon the alu power rough), but i liked then the 1.20 kirschbaum competition more than alu for instance. from that one i have moved on to the mantis power poly, which up to now is still my go-to string.

but i find it a little bit awkward that you say the l-tec plays like alu while pvaudio said that it played like polyfibre black venom. that would be quite at the opposite sides of the spectrum in my view. or i have messed up the particular hybrids you are talking about and then it is all my fault.

[kiteboard]

pv did not try the os/4s hybrid. He is basing his review on diff. ltec string. Does not feel like venom at all. I am not saying it is as great as some, but better than most polys I've tried, but it has to fit your style/frame and tension. Maybe he did not match those up is possible. He also stood up for performaxx, when the guy broke his word to me, and went awol for a bunch of us. It's not just poly, but ribbon injected poly like iso speed ribbon. It does last longer for that reason.

[Torres]

Originally Posted by arche3

Also, I was not discounting your review. I did read it. but when you go on and on about the BS-Tec and how its impossible etc in the past..... Then your next breath you say, "I will give this my honest review" that is pretty funny. Way to set the tone of the review.

I don't think you're understanding the point here. It's quite possible to give an honest appraisal of a string, be open minded when testing it, whilst coming to the conclusion that the claims are ridiculous.

The claims are ridiculous.

You only have to look at the L-Tec website and the associated paraphernalia and brainwashing propaganda to appreciate that only the most gullible, foolish, or naive of people would believe their claims. Do you really think a thin plastic material that gets bashed with several KGs of force, repeatedly, hundreds and hundreds (or possibly thousands) of times, over 30+ hour period is going to maintain the same properties as it did in hour zero?

If there was such a material, it wouldn't be L-Tec producing it. It would be DuPont, ICI, or some other big global chemicals company patenting it and using it in an industrial or medical industry application to make billions.

At the end of the day, its plastic. It's a polyester, the same type of material produced by any other string manufacturer. There's nothing special or unusual here, as confirmed by PVAudio's playtest.

[fgs]

kiteboard,

o.k., i did my homework and read through the different shapes and materials l-tec is selling. personally i would most probably not play a poly/poly hybrid due to my fear for my shoulder. i did some full poly with mantis power poly and i amazingly had nothing, but i would rather prefer for my ease of mind to stick with a poly-mains/multi-crosses combo, as these have only done me good.

what i would be most interested in is the durability of these strings (not playability!). if they really last that much longer as only one poster has indicated, than they might be an option for me to be thinking about.

[arche3]

Ltec has terrible marketing. Its not based on any common sense. I agree. I dont believe it because i play the string.

But have you ever went to the luxilon website? There is a string forum where you can ask a luxilon string expert. He has always claimed that the composition of luxilon does not change after many hours. And will react the same till break only diff is tension loss. But they claim string does not go dead.

Originally Posted by Torres

I don't think you're understanding the point here. It's quite possible to give an honest appraisal of a string, be open minded when testing it, whilst coming to the conclusion that the claims are ridiculous.

The claims are ridiculous.

You only have to look at the L-Tec website and the associated paraphernalia and brainwashing propaganda to appreciate that only the most gullible, foolish, or naive of people would believe their claims. Do you really think a thin plastic material that gets bashed with several KGs of force, repeatedly, hundreds and hundreds (or possibly thousands) of times, over 30+ hour period is going to maintain the same properties as it did in hour zero?

If there was such a material, it wouldn't be L-Tec producing it. It would be DuPont, ICI, or some other big global chemicals company patenting it and using it in an industrial or medical industry application to make billions.

At the end of the day, its plastic. It's a polyester, the same type of material produced by any other string manufacturer. There's nothing special or unusual here, as confirmed by PVAudio's playtest.

[arche3]

If you used an ltec poly main with their syn gut cross it would break very fast. I emailed them and the guy said the soft crosses they have are not durable. Its comfortable .

Originally Posted by fgs

kiteboard,

o.k., i did my homework and read through the different shapes and materials l-tec is selling. personally i would most probably not play a poly/poly hybrid due to my fear for my shoulder. i did some full poly with mantis power poly and i amazingly had nothing, but i would rather prefer for my ease of mind to stick with a poly-mains/multi-crosses combo, as these have only done me good.

what i would be most interested in is the durability of these strings (not playability!). if they really last that much longer as only one poster has indicated, than they might be an option for me to be thinking about.

[pvaudio]

Originally Posted by kiteboard

Seems like he's ****ed off about their marketing program and price, and only tried one type of hybrid, and then condemns the whole line. Where was that attitude when laserfibre was ripping us all off? Instead, he defended them. (Saying who he talked to there, and how well they treated him, and how great their multi was, so on.) That's just not lining up esp. when you consider how many of us got ripped off by them... Now this new high control/good feel line comes out, and he rips them up, and why is that? No discount? The only other string similar to the os/4s is alu power, which loses its tension faster by about .5. It costs about $15/set.

This has nothing to do with your misconceptions related to my Laserfibre experiences years ago, so I will ignore that section.

You've also completely missed the point. It's my fundamental right to condemn the L-Tec line based off one experience because of what I've been saying from the beginning: infinite exit strategies. You can automatically say that since this one "wasn't for me", I should keep spending 20 bucks a frame until I find one. Until I do that, only then can I make a valid assessment. That's a load of ********. Do you not realize I have many many times stated that I fully expect the L-Tec fans to come in here saying my results are invalid for any number of reasons? Yeah, that's exactly why my results are valid: there shouldn't need to be 10 variables for your revolutionary product to work properly.

[pvaudio]

Originally Posted by arche3

Ltec has terrible marketing. Its not based on any common sense. I agree. I dont believe it because i play the string.

But have you ever went to the luxilon website? There is a string forum where you can ask a luxilon string expert. He has always claimed that the composition of luxilon does not change after many hours. And will react the same till break only diff is tension loss. But they claim string does not go dead.

Please just stop. Luxilon makes synthetic filaments first, tennis strings second. Their products sell themselves because of professional use. That is not remotely a relevant comparison.

[arche3]

Yeah. Pv played the softer spin setup. I play the stiffer alu type setup.

[
QUOTE=fgs;6390982]it is a while back since i played the regular alu (am going to test soon the alu power rough), but i liked then the 1.20 kirschbaum competition more than alu for instance. from that one i have moved on to the mantis power poly, which up to now is still my go-to string.

but i find it a little bit awkward that you say the l-tec plays like alu while pvaudio said that it played like polyfibre black venom. that would be quite at the opposite sides of the spectrum in my view. or i have messed up the particular hybrids you are talking about and then it is all my fault.[/quote]

[pvaudio]

Gentlemen, let us please resume cordial string discussion. To end this pointless debate, let me reiterate: the L-Tec plays like other strings on the market. Good. It costs much more than said strings. Bad. The reason the overall experience is bad is because you expect to be wowed above and beyond, and this did not happen. There is nothing more to say on my end. Feel free to continue discussion, but leave the validity of my test out of it please.