PV Audio's Playtest Thread

[arche3]

Originally Posted by pvaudio

Please just stop. Luxilon makes synthetic filaments first, tennis strings second. Their products sell themselves because of professional use. That is not remotely a relevant comparison.

Stop what? I am not comparing ltec to luxilon. I just found it curious. The luxilon expert has swore up and down over there that a tennis ball does not have enough impact to change the elasticity of their strings. That the composition is much sturdier than that based on their testing. They claim to have the science.

[Up&comer]

Originally Posted by arche3

......... I am mainly amazed it stays playable for longer than ALU and hits the same type of ball.

Originally Posted by arche3

for 10 hours between restrings I would probably go with a 7 dollar poly as well. It plays more or less the same within that timeframe compared to most polys anyways. for 3 hours between restrings i would string ALU no question.

[quote=arche3;6391073]Yeah. Pv played the softer spin setup. I play the stiffer alu type setup.

Originally Posted by arche3

Stop what? I am not comparing ltec to luxilon. I just found it curious. The luxilon expert has swore up and down over there that a tennis ball does not have enough impact to change the elasticity of their strings. That the composition is much sturdier than that based on their testing. They claim to have the science.

Yes, you are comparing luxilon to l-Tec. You have multiple times already.

What PV said was that it was a pretty good poly for an obscene cost to performance ratio.

[fgs]

well, the cost/performance ratio is yet to be defined in my opinion because there is (in my understanding) still one variable to be asessed - durability.

i understood that, contrary to all the marketing hype, the string does not offer that ultimative performance, but it nevertheless is to be regarded as a pretty good string. now, obviously you find a lot of strings offering the same performance for a quarter of the price. in case at least the durability claim is true, and it keeps up 3-4 time longer until it breaks, than the price/performance ratio is not so obscene anymore, as you have to factor in also your time for restringing.

if i would find a string that keeps it going for three times as much as my current set-up, than i'd rather be willing to shell out the money and play with it. i apply the same logic by which some flat hitters do play with gut - it gives them some 20-30 hitting hours of superb performance and pure joy. under these circumstances, it really is not breaking the bank to have gut restrung some 3-4 times a year since it is well worth it, and any other synthetic or multi would not keep it's playability for such a long time. by the same standard i think that if this "not-according-to-hype-but-still-well-playing" set-up would have ne required durability, obviously paired with playability!, than it is well worth taking into consideration.

[Up&comer]

^^ Of course.

However, no polyester can maintain its playability after 30 hour of actual hitting from a futures player. Physically or playability wise.

[arche3]

[quote=Up&comer;6391119][quote=arche3;6391073


Yes, you are comparing luxilon to l-Tec. You have multiple times already.

[/QUOTE]

ummm... read the thread. I was commenting about the luxilon forum experts claims. Not my claims. I compared the play of luxilon to Ltec. I referenced the luxilon forum because I thought PV would find it interesting they claim no change of string properties whatsoever regardless of hours of play.

So to walk you through it.... I do not believe Luxilon does not change. I do not believe Ltec does not change. BUT I find it very interesting that Luxilon claims their science proves their strings do not change other then tension. So its either in our heads that the strings go dead or they are wrong. But as PV pointed out they are not too concerned about their string line. So why lie?

I think a lot of this string stuff is in our heads to be honest.

[pvaudio]

arche3. This thread has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Luxilon, ALU, or any associated terms. I don't care in the slightest what Luxilon does on their forum or with their marketing: it's not relevant to this thread. Therefore, this L-Tec review has no business being compared to any of the above. Now, if you wish to make your own review thread to find the L-Tec combo that plays like ALU but lasts for 20 hours, please, feel free to. You can also discuss that in the main L-Tec threads if you wish. This thread right here, is not that place.

The next time you hear about Luxilon will be in the review after next which has Adrenaline Rough mains per request. Beyond that, you really don't need to defend L-Tec here. You can copy and paste my review elsewhere and bash it up and down and pick it apart with regards to Lux if you choose. However, since I made zero claims about Luxilon in any shape or form, using their strategies as a defense against my review is fallacious at best.

[arche3]

It has to do with the claims of string makers. And I was not defending any string. I was actually agreeing with you. did you even read my posts?

lighten up. its tennis strings. I was agreeing with you. I thought you would be interesting in the claims of another maker of tennis strings. (which btw I do not believe) no one really cares all that much so chill out and read my post as they are not what you think they are. When it's on here it's fair game for comments and replies. If you want the sand box all to yourself this is not the right place.



If you do not want anyone else to reply or comment on YOUR posts here perhaps the better way would be to write notes to yourself.

Originally Posted by pvaudio

arche3. This thread has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Luxilon, ALU, or any associated terms. I don't care in the slightest what Luxilon does on their forum or with their marketing: it's not relevant to this thread. Therefore, this L-Tec review has no business being compared to any of the above. Now, if you wish to make your own review thread to find the L-Tec combo that plays like ALU but lasts for 20 hours, please, feel free to. You can also discuss that in the main L-Tec threads if you wish. This thread right here, is not that place.

The next time you hear about Luxilon will be in the review after next which has Adrenaline Rough mains per request. Beyond that, you really don't need to defend L-Tec here. You can copy and paste my review elsewhere and bash it up and down and pick it apart with regards to Lux if you choose. However, since I made zero claims about Luxilon in any shape or form, using their strategies as a defense against my review is fallacious at best.

[TenFanLA]

Basically PV, Arches and KB are comparing Apples to Oranges. PV tested Pro/5S (which I haven't played) while Arches and KB played with 0S/4S (which I have played and agree with them that it has excellent playability similar to that of ALU). In my 0S/4S review I said that people who like ALU will most likely find 0S/4S a more comfortable, longer lasting version of ALU.

Also I personally will cut out 0S/4S after 6 hours because that was my observed peak performance period, although you can certainly play with it well past 10 hours with more than adequate performance. Lastly 0S/4S, like ALU and RPM, will NEVER win any price to performance awards. Those 3 premium polys are for PZero performance, not 3 year/36,000 mile guarantee performance.

On a completely derailing note I just had to post my experience from yesterday's BNP Pariba Open (Apology to PV):
"I wasn't planning on going because I hate driving long distance. But this might be Federer's last year at the Elite level and I don't know how much more Nadal's body can hold up. When I got these tix (4th row behind the baseline in the best section as a gift), I had to go. Here are the biggest impressions:

Federer - SO precise like a Swiss watch. So much variety of shots, it's like everyone else is playing with a keyboard and Fed is playing with a grand piano. He is a true maestro. His serve is hit always 6 inches from the line. I never saw a serve go in more than a foot away from the lines. His FH is just a guided missile. His BH slice just dies on the court. You have to pick it up from your ankle. The most amazing is his footwork. Everyone else you can hear their feet thumping but you almost never hear Fed's feet. It's like he's playing on a cloud, floating like a ballerina. I think his shoes must be made of foam. Watching Fed in person is like a religious experience.

Nadal - His movement and strokes are like a young BULL. He intimidates people on the court and bullies them around. His FH looks like it's going out by 10 ft but drops down 90 degrees and kicks up VIOLENTLY. Trying to return his ridiculous topspin FH is like trying to catch a cannonball with dishwashing gloves.

Nalbandian - His BH is the best I've ever seen by far. He is the only one who can beat a pro's FH with his BH. So powerful, accurate and RIDICULOUS angles.

Sharapova - In the whole match I don't think she missed 1 BH. Her BH is a flat, powerful weapon.

Ivanovic - BOOMING FH. She doesn't look like a tennis player. She looks like a supermodel showing off her Adidas clothes on the court runway.

Wozniacki - *YAWN*"

[kiteboard]

Well, I'd say, that blackening a whole line due to one hybrid would be like blackening luxilon because you did not like timo, etc. If the hybrid did not work in that frame, at that tension, that's all that should be said and let it lie at that. The initial rating was 8.75/10 then you came back and derated to 5.75/10. The real reason I think it's just due to the dislike of their marketing campaign, and the mini jet method, etc. String is such a picky thing, so to each his own. The search continues for a poly that holds tension like gut and plays like alu/etc. I can't get any of it to last for more than 1hr. In that regard Ltec and ytex are not much better, a little. Doesn't matter what I do, or what I try. My quest goes onwards.

[pvaudio]

Then with that said, thank you arche3 and kiteboard for your opinions. That is the purpose of this forum.

If anything, this debate has been instructive. I knew that this review would be controversial, and indeed it was. In doing so, it brought forth numerous opinions and viewpoints regarding string. Secretly, that was what I was aiming to achieve equally as much as reviewing the string. I wanted to see how people view equipment: some see it objectively, subjectively, from the views of others and only from their own. As examples, objective string assessments are technical data. Stiffness ratings, lab-tested rebound angles and RPM generation are all objective parameters of any given string. Subjective views are what we have here. People using them in the real world and making their own opinion given a known set of parameters. Viewing from others would be people taking my subjective opinion or the RSI playtester's opinions and using a string based on that. The final one would be akin to stubbornness: you know what works and has worked, so nothing could be better.

I've strung frames for all four types of players and truth be told, no one viewpoint is right (obviously). But here we have an interesting twist, and it's what I was interested to see. The L-Tec strings have no objective ratings, very few subjective ratings, a few more selections based on other's opinions and no pre-held notions since it's new. However, the fervor generated by a single opinion was enough to spark a firestorm. Why? Because the product was marketed as though all four selection methods had been done and the string was superior for all. If nothing else, this just means one thing: please read my first post. See how I hit the ball, what racquet I use, etc. This thread's reviews are my own, and the opinions derived are my own. Sometimes they match with others, sometimes not. Doesn't matter, because as kiteboard just said, there will always be something else to try and everyone is different.

With respect to L-Tec, the "blackening" was because the product was presented in such a manner that it should score perfect 10s. Since it did not and the same company can claim any number of reasons why it did not, it gets lower marks. The testing was to see if the claims were true in addition to whether or not the string was good. If the latter is true, the former is not necessarily true. If the former is true, however, then the latter is by default. Here, the latter was only true, and since the system is set up for the consumer to spend more and more money to potentially never find anything that wows them, I cannot possibly recommend that anyone try. Whether you do or not depends on which of the four types I listed above you fit into. I have no hold whatsoever over someone trying or not trying a string. But when it fails to live up to hype and that failure was pre-calculated by the manufacturer as an exit strategy, I'm not going to say "maybe you'll have better luck". I'm going to say: try something which you can afford to not like.

[Torres]

Originally Posted by TenFanLA

Sharapova - In the whole match I don't think she missed 1 BH. Her BH is a flat, powerful weapon.

Ivanovic - BOOMING FH. She doesn't look like a tennis player. She looks like a supermodel showing off her Adidas clothes on the court runway.

Was it purely by chance that you happened to watching the two most attractive players on the tour?

Originally Posted by kiteboard

The initial rating was 8.75/10 then you came back and derated to 5.75/10.

If a string costs me $20, is promised by the manufacturer to be so good that every other string manufacturer should shut down their factories, and go into liquidation, is supposed to last 30 hours, no wait 40 hours, no wait, 50 hours, but then it turns out to be "just another poly", I think I would give it 5.75/10 as well.

Actually, I'd probably give it less, more like -3/10 because it isn't remotely close to living up to the manufacturer's claims. In fact, it it would be a false statement of fact that has induced me into buying the string which, dare I say, would potentially actionable in court.

[pvaudio]

Nothing like that happens by chance

[TenFanLA]

Originally Posted by Torres

Was it purely by chance that you happened to watching the two most attractive players on the tour?

They both played on the main court, Stadium 1. It was like the perfect storm. First it was (1)Delpo vs. Verdasco, then (2)Azarenka vs. Goerges, (3)Sharapova vs. Vinci, (4)Nadal vs. Granollers, (5)Federer vs. Raonic and (6)Ivanovic vs. Wozniacki. It must been the "Hotties" day in Stadium 1. It's pretty amazing how good-looking these elite athletes are in person, men and women. Verdasco and Ivanovic are off-the-charts good-looking.

[mixedmedia]

In the name of everything holy--wow!

It's clear whose right here, and I'm glad it's on to something more...uh...less string related.

[mixedmedia]

Thank you, again, very much, for the review, pvaudio.

[mixedmedia]

If JD doesn't mind and you have enough let, maybe consider taking alidi up on the offer to test and film?

[kiteboard]

Considering the impact takes place in 4/1000th/sec, or about 80 times for each eye blink (1/3/sec), it sure does feel different from string to string. I don't like lying scum bag ads either, but if it works for some, it's not just suggestion.
"Listen to the sound of my boring voice. As you hear my key board strokes in your mind, tap, tap, tap, tap, boringly tap, your eyes are becoming very tired and heavy, and you begin to feel that everything I tap is right and good for you and your game.... Tap.. Tap...Tap...Good and right for your game.. Tap, tap, tap. Kiteboard is good and right for your game."

Ltec had a coupon code that I took advantage of, LTEC-50, that gave 50% off, and that's what I got it at. When companies launch, they will often have that kind of ad campaign, for those in the know.

[slopoke]

Are there any time lapse photographs that show string snap back? I understand that contributes to spin....the more snap back, the more spin.

[all_backhand]

Originally Posted by Torres

Was it purely by chance that you happened to watching the two most attractive players on the tour?

I have to disagree with you, kind sir. Kirilenko and Goerges have to, at the very least, be included in that discussion

[pvaudio]

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

If JD doesn't mind and you have enough let, maybe consider taking alidi up on the offer to test and film?

I only have two half sets remaining: 3S and gut.