Thoughts on height over the net

[salsainglesa]

The closer your reference point is, the easier it is to manage. Mine is at stringbed. How high i hit the ball... of course I know exactly at what height is the net when I am at the baseline.

Project the net to the baseline. Get to know the net.
Whenever you are hitting at your rally depth, you use always the same height to stay in rally pace. the same to attack and the same to defend. 3 different heights.. depending on the situation.

Its an association process, takes time, but its actually quite simple if you give time for this idea to settle.

There are no easy quick fixes in tennis, sorry.

[Bagumbawalla]

The height of the ball, the spin on the ball and the speed of the ball all affect the placement of the ball in the opposite court.

After a lot of playing and practicing, most people generally find a "groove" where they feel comfortable and are able to hit with consistancy, good depth and pace. After a time we no longer have to consciously observe the various "cues" that we needed as we were learning.

As we grow into our strokes, the whole process of creating them becomes more "unconscious"- automatically we add more spin for a sharp angle- hit flatter for a sharp drive to the opposite corner and so on.

Until we get to that point, yes, I believe, it is good to have some sort of reference to assure yourself that your form is intact, your depth is good and your spin is under comtrol.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by rkelley

Here's Borg and Lendl in a 921 shot rally at the 1981 Masters. Judge the height of the ball over the net for yourself. Remember that 6 feet over the net means that one the players could stand on the net cord and the ball would graze the top of their heads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jZmFMUGTTU

FWIW, I'd estimate most of their shots are around 3 feet over the net, or about 6 feet off the ground.

Here's Jimbo and John from the 1984 USO semi. Again, I'm seeing a couple of feet max. net clearance on balls that they're hitting offensively. Neither guy is Mr. topspin. There are defensive shots that are higher. Overall seems lower than Borg and Lendl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiDZQIE0uLE

Fast forward three decades to Fed and Djokovic at the USO semi. With the pace those two were hitting with there's no way the ball is more a foot or so over the net on most shots. I am still in awe of the pace and consistency that they generated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXNc_iMkSIY

Borg and Lendl's balls are ranging from 3-6 feet over the net. Fed and Djokovic's balls are about the same. You can't tell what the clearance is from that perspective, but, I've seen them live, and they get a lot of clearance over the net.

[gindyo]

Originally Posted by rkelley

Here's Borg and Lendl in a 921 shot rally at the 1981 Masters. Judge the height of the ball over the net for yourself. Remember that 6 feet over the net means that one the players could stand on the net cord and the ball would graze the top of their heads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jZmFMUGTTU

Wow who said open stance forehand was a modern shot these guys were using it in 99% of the time, 30 years ago, when I was 2 y.o.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

Borg and Lendl's balls are ranging from 3-6 feet over the net. Fed and Djokovic's balls are about the same. You can't tell what the clearance is from that perspective, but, I've seen them live, and they get a lot of clearance over the net.

I haven't seen Fed or Djokovic play a real match from court level, but I have watched both play practice sets from court level on the hard courts at Indian Wells. Neither was hitting an average rally ball between 3 to 6 feet over the net. The shots 6 feet over the net or close to that were almost always defensive shots designed to get the player back in the point. I'd say the usually rally ball has less than 3 feet of net clearance.

Last week I was out at Indian Wells watching again (didn't see either Fed or Djok on the practice courts). However, I watched a number of professional players at court level on the outer courts and in practice sets. Low net clearance was standard. The average rally ball in a match was hit between the net cord to 3' over the net, with probably as many in the lower half as in the upper half.

The players do hit higher heavier topspin balls, but those are definitely not the standard balls in my experience watching hard court tennis.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

I haven't seen Fed or Djokovic play a real match from court level, but I have watched both play practice sets from court level on the hard courts at Indian Wells. Neither was hitting an average rally ball between 3 to 6 feet over the net. The shots 6 feet over the net or close to that were almost always defensive shots designed to get the player back in the point. I'd say the usually rally ball has less than 3 feet of net clearance.

Last week I was out at Indian Wells watching again (didn't see either Fed or Djok on the practice courts). However, I watched a number of professional players at court level on the outer courts and in practice sets. Low net clearance was standard. The average rally ball in a match was hit between the net cord to 3' over the net, with probably as many in the lower half as in the upper half.

The players do hit higher heavier topspin balls, but those are definitely not the standard balls in my experience watching hard court tennis.

I can't dispute your perception of net clearance. I'm just saying that Vic Braden claims to have done studies on net clearance by pros and asserts that it is much higher than it appears to be by most observers. I agree that it looks like 3 feet is a typical high clearance. But, that's a perception. On the other hand, I've spent a lot of time hitting on a backboard and I like to put a strip of blue painter's tape on the wall as a target. I place the tape as high as I can reach, which is about 7 1/2 feet (4 1/2 feet over the net). But, when I step back and start hitting, that tape seems like it's 4-5 feet high (1-2 feet over the net). All this to say that perceptions from a distance can be deceiving, even at ground level.

[rkelley]

Here's another good video of Nadal and Robredo playing some practice points. The video is shot at about court level and pretty close to the players. The players appear to be hitting pretty seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0FwoWEs_SY

Limpin is correct that the perspective can be deceiving, but one way to deal with that is to draw an imaginary line between the two players heads. That's about six feet. If the ball at any point in it's flight goes above that line then it has to be more than six feet off the ground, regardless of angle, depth, etc. If is stays below then it never attains that height.

There are definitely some defensive shots that clear the net by 6 or more feet. There are also some topspin backhands that Robredo hits from pretty far behind the baseline that appear to over 6 feet. But a lot of the shots, especially when they really hit out on the ball, don't go above that 6 foot line between the heads of the players (i.e. 3 feet over the net).

I saw the same thing on the other videos that I posted.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

I can't dispute your perception of net clearance. I'm just saying that Vic Braden claims to have done studies on net clearance by pros and asserts that it is much higher than it appears to be by most observers. I agree that it looks like 3 feet is a typical high clearance. But, that's a perception. On the other hand, I've spent a lot of time hitting on a backboard and I like to put a strip of blue painter's tape on the wall as a target. I place the tape as high as I can reach, which is about 7 1/2 feet (4 1/2 feet over the net). But, when I step back and start hitting, that tape seems like it's 4-5 feet high (1-2 feet over the net). All this to say that perceptions from a distance can be deceiving, even at ground level.

These were all just visually confirmed, but I was sitting almost on top of the net at a few matches. The only balls I can describe the net clearance with great precision were those that ticked the tape.

The takeaway from watching the pros was that lower level players who don't blast the balls should usually hit topspin with net clearance between 3 to 6' over the net. For instance, I watched Cilic warming up during practice hitting balls down the middle. The slower warmup balls were crossing between 3 to 6' over the net. As the warmup progressed, they started hitting harder and harder and the net clearance diminished.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by rkelley

Here's another good video of Nadal and Robredo playing some practice points. The video is shot at about court level and pretty close to the players. The players appear to be hitting pretty seriously.

Is this the video you meant to link? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0FwoWEs_SY

If so, there is a mix on this video. I'd say a number of these rallies show higher than average net clearance, but that makes sense as Nadal is known for hitting a lot of topspin. There must have been at least one rally shown in that video in which the average net clearance was 3 to 6'.

The first rally in that video is more representative of the sort of net clearance I was seeing.

[rkelley]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

Is this the video you meant to link? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0FwoWEs_SY

If so, there is a mix on this video. I'd say a number of these rallies show higher than average net clearance, but that makes sense as Nadal is known for hitting a lot of topspin. There must have been at least one rally shown in that video in which the average net clearance was 3 to 6'.

The first rally in that video is more representative of the sort of net clearance I was seeing.

Doh! Yes, this is the video I meant.

Thanks.

[TennisCJC]

Vic Braden stressed net clearance to reduce errors. I think he used 3' and 4'-6' as reference points.

Many other coaches use this theory too.

Robert Lansdorp talks about hitting very hard drives 1.5' to 2' feet over the net. He puts a court roller on the net with a tennis can stuck on top as a target and has pupils hit hard drives at the target. The target is about the right height 1.5-2'.

Occasionally, televised tennis will show average net clearance for a pro match. I have seen Nadal's and Djoko's average be around the 3' marker.

I have also seen Oscar Wegner and other coaches advocate a 3' line above the net as a target as a good baseline rally target.

Clearance is not as important in doubles as you are striving to get the ball low much more frequently in doubles in my view.

I think aiming aggressive hard shots 1.5' - 2' over the net is fine and aiming slower rally balls and defensive shots 3'-5' over the net in singles are reasonable guidelines. You can also think in terms of court postioning. If you are 6' or more inside the baseline, drive it in the 1.5' - 2' window, if you are near baseline or behind baseline, increase the margin.

[toly]

According to http://www.internazionalibnlditalia....spx?print=true Djokovic average clearance over the net in the 2011 Italian final against Rafa was around 50cm, for Nadal it was around 100cm.

[WildVolley]

Originally Posted by toly

According to http://www.internazionalibnlditalia....spx?print=true Djokovic average clearance over the net in the 2011 Italian final against Rafa was around 50cm, for Nadal it was around 100cm.

Very interesting. That accords with my observation. However, I thought that it might be even higher on clay. So if we take this as accurate, Nole's net clearance on average was under 2 feet on clay. Nadal's average was between 3 and 4 feet over the net.

Watching the pros in person, you see that the preferred shot is hard, fast, and low with a lot of topspin, especially on the forehand side. The backhands tend to be hit flatter.

With the computerized shot tracking it should be possible to get extremely accurate readings. IBM used to have shot-tracker(?) at the US Open which would show the complete ball path for each shot.

[mhj202]

Originally Posted by rkelley

Here's Borg and Lendl in a 921 shot rally at the 1981 Masters.

921 shot rally?

[watungga]

Coaches that use net clearance in their teaching are looking for more money than quality of lessons.

FFS, do not think about that rule. Pace is the main ingredient to your shots if you want an effective rally strokes.

[gindyo]

Originally Posted by watungga

Coaches that use net clearance in their teaching are looking for more money than quality of lessons.

FFS, do not think about that rule. Pace is the main ingredient to your shots if you want an effective rally strokes.

lol pace has to be the 5th most important ingredient in a rally shot after consistency, direction, depth and spin

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by gindyo

lol pace has to be the 5th most important ingredient in a rally shot after consistency, direction, depth and spin

Agreed!

10char

[trenzterra]

Well I was recently at an ATP Challenger tournament in my country, where Lu Yen-hsun was playing in the finals. I was actually pretty surprised that the balls they hit were pretty close to the net cord, perhaps only about 20cm net clearance? In fact, the balls I usually hit on a rally are moonballs in comparison

One thing I noticed is that the ball is usually past its highest point by the time they reach the net.

Well LYH is a top 40 player (I think?) so I don't know if it applies to the guys higher up as well? But since these guys play the likes of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic I would say they would play rather similarly too?

[rkelley]

Originally Posted by mhj202

921 shot rally?

Hyperbole for humorus effect. The very specific number, "921" as opposed to "about 900" is supposed to intensify the effect.

Read a Dave Berry piece.

[blastforehand]

Originally Posted by rkelley

Hyperbole for humorus effect. The very specific number, "921" as opposed to "about 900" is supposed to intensify the effect.

Read a Dave Berry piece.

Didn't work for me. "A 20,000 shot rally," now that's marginally amusing.