Differences between how Fed and Djoker play against Rafa

[sportsfan1]

Watching Rafa's IW matches against Fed, wanted to put down some thoughts about differences between how Djok plays Rafa versus how Fed plays him. Obviously Djok's had more success against Rafa than Fed, so this is more of an analysis rather a critique of any player.

1. Fed has often come in to the net, at times late without fully being committed to it, gotten passed (admittedly with some good passing shots from Nadal) and then has had the look of someone who's seen a ghost (I say that as a Fed fan).
   
2. Even when Fed hits to Rafa's backhand using his BH or inside-in FH, Rafa can still go cross court to a comparatively more open court. Djok's court positioning is better in this regard since he's not running around his BH.
   
3. It looks to me like Djok hits the ball way harder, taking Rafa's time away to make the great defensive shots that he generally does against Fed. I think Fed did hit his forehand harder today in the IW 2012 SF.
   
4. Obviously Djok's 2hander is comparatively more reliable than Fed's 1HBH against Rafa's high bouncing top spin. Especially true for the DTL shot.

[Pwned]

I don't agree that Djoke hits harder against Nadal. But that can be seen in a few ways. To me, it looks like Djokovic puts almost all his energy into spin against Nadal. Pushing Nadal back with deep heavy groundstrokes and working the point without really attempting to hit through the court for winners. As others have said, he seems to be out-Nadalling Nadal. Long points with spin, defense, and angles.

I agree that Federer is at a greater risk employing the dtl bh/fh to Nadal's bh simply because it opens up the court to Federer's FH. And he has had trouble moving to his right in the last couple years.

[pvaudio]

And yet, in 2 of the last 3 of their meetings, Federer has straight setted Nadal. I don't really think that Federer's poor record against him has anything technical behind it. It's all mental.

[OddJack]

Agree with first one.

Rodge approaches are more of a bluff. He gets passed 9 out of 10. Good thing he didnt try much of it today, as he did in AO

[ChanceEncounter]

Originally Posted by OddJack

Agree with first one.

Rodge approaches are more of a bluff. He gets passed 9 out of 10. Good thing he didnt try much of it today, as he did in AO

9 out of 10, huh? So you're saying if I go look at Federer's match stats, he'll have an ~11% conversion on points at the net?

[Nathaniel_Near]

Point 4. is very important, as Djokovic can effortlessly change the direction of the ball on the BH wing without being frightened for his life. Good call.

[Nathaniel_Near]

Point 2 is also a good one, further representing what a tightrope the Fedal match-up is, as both look for ways to be able to start dominating the rally with the forehand.

[ChanceEncounter]

Originally Posted by Nathaniel_Near

Point 4. is very important, as Djokovic can effortlessly change the direction of the ball on the BH wing without being frightened for his life. Good call.

This is the key point. Against Federer, Nadal can lock in with either wing, because he knows Federer isn't as good at switching the direction of play. For example, if he hits a CC forehand to Federer's backhand, he can expect a CC backhand as a reply the vast majority of times.

Against Djokovic, Nadal can't get as comfortable because Djokovic switches the direction of play as well as anybody on tour.

[zapvor]

well this is only one story. you have to see how rafa plays against fed and novak. very different.

[SoBad]

Originally Posted by zapvor

well this is only one story. you have to see how rafa plays against fed and novak. very different.

Well Novak doesn't take PEDs, so Nadal doesn't have do deal with that issue in his case.

[joeri888]

It's all no. 4 really. No. 2 follows from that, because Fed has to run around a lot to abuse Rafa's backhand and can be more exposed himself. This makes all the difference.

[OddJack]

Originally Posted by ChanceEncounter

9 out of 10, huh? So you're saying if I go look at Federer's match stats, he'll have an ~11% conversion on points at the net?

his apporaches sucked at AO, he gut burned more than not

[Rozroz]

hate to say this, but the windy conditions were the big factor in the Fedal match.
it was clearly obvious as Nadal was almost able to change momentum once the wind slowed down.
that said, Fed did not choke and held pressure.

[dimeaxe]

Guys, you're overlooking the fact Novak has the best CC forehand in game.He can be aggressive, he can put more spin to it( something Federer can't).This the most improved shot in his game, and it's not only effective against Nadal, remember how destroyed FEd in AO'11 with it..

[joeri888]

Originally Posted by SoBad

Well Novak doesn't take PEDs, so Nadal doesn't have do deal with that issue in his case.

You suggest Federer takes PEDs? From what? The enormous biceps? His physical strokes? His 5th set record?

Or his perfect technique maybe?

[sportsfan1]

Originally Posted by dimeaxe

Guys, you're overlooking the fact Novak has the best CC forehand in game.He can be aggressive, he can put more spin to it( something Federer can't).This the most improved shot in his game, and it's not only effective against Nadal, remember how destroyed FEd in AO'11 with it..

I almost listed this and the fact that Fed's FH breaks down against Nadal. But didn't in the end because Fed does have one of the best FHs in the game.

Additional thought is that though both Fed and to an extent Nalbandian in the previous match had success going to Nadal's BH, it's Djok who breaks it down most effectively, so much so that Nadal ends up hitting more BH slices against him (which don't work either).

[monfed]

Djoker's BH DTL.

[Ico]

Federer was 12/13 at net yesterday according the post-match stats. What a failure.

[zapvor]

Originally Posted by Ico

Federer was 12/13 at net yesterday according the post-match stats. What a failure.

totally! it should be at least 20/15