Maybe I Should Start Overbooking My Teams

[kelkat]

What is MOCO?

[andfor]

Originally Posted by J_R_B

We have a 20 person roster limit, and I need to use every single one to get through a season. We're talking about middle aged people with families and other commitments. No one is available all the time.

OK. Reality check for Andy. I get it. Sorry.

Never paid much attention to Ladies rosters. I can see the need for a few more ladies then men to make a roster work.

[Angle Queen]

Originally Posted by kelkat

What is MOCO?

MOCO is the colloquial acronym for Montgomery County (Maryland) and it is Cindy's stomping grounds . Between DC and Baltimore, it's a large, diverse locale with a vibrant tennis community.

I know many of y'all carry the roster-max, but that's not the trend around here. Not sure if it's because we're generally club-based but most of the local teams operate with 14-16 players. It makes for lots of playing time and "tight" teams. Many of them have had the same core group for many, many years.

But the non-communication or worse, say-you-will-then-don't has got to be frustrating. I agree: I think if everyone had to be a captain at some point in their playing careers, everyone's teams would run a lot smoother. On an old volleyball team years ago, we all took turns, sometimes even having to "draw straws" to see who got stuck with it. But it sure did make for a logistically "easy" team. Everyone replied/confirmed playing times, paid on time and rarely complained about lineups.

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by andfor

OK. Reality check for Andy. I get it. Sorry.

Never paid much attention to Ladies rosters. I can see the need for a few more ladies then men to make a roster work.

Men's 4.5 team here. I have 18 on the roster for a 14 week season. Three live pretty far away and will only play 2 or 3 matches. I have three weaker players that will only play when I am short and will get maybe 2 or 3 matches. So right there it means there are only 12 'regulars' despite there being 18 on the roster. And then factor in holiday weekends, vacation over the summer, injuries, etc as others have pointed out, and there *will* be at least a few weeks where I am scrambling for players.

The only teams that can get away with a 12-14 man roster are those that have younger guys that don't get injured, don't have a family, and don't vacation over holiday weekends.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Angle Queen

I know many of y'all carry the roster-max, but that's not the trend around here. Not sure if it's because we're generally club-based but most of the local teams operate with 14-16 players. It makes for lots of playing time and "tight" teams. Many of them have had the same core group for many, many years.

I may have to start carrying smaller rosters.

The problem is that registration for our spring adult league now costs a whopping $131.00 per player. That covers the first five matches at $17 each, but there's still $40 of administrative fees. I have had more than one player balk at that up-front cost.

If I allow a weak or unknown player onto the team and I wind up only playing them twice, they are rightfully annoyed that they paid $68 for two matches. But as captain, I feel I have to have extra players around because some of my regulars are frequently unavailable.

I have got to figure out a way to deal with players who squat on the roster but aren't available enough. Yes, they may make themselves available for a number of the matches, but these are often not the "right" matches. I mean, to put a weak player in the line-up, I have to find the right opponent and the right partner. If the stars don't line up, the player is annoyed that she was available but didn't play.

Ideally, I would want a player available for 75% of the matches. Is that unreasonable?

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Ideally, I would want a player available for 75% of the matches. Is that unreasonable?

It depends. Do you have a set day of the week and time when all matches are played? If so, then yes I think it's reasonable that a player be available for most of the matches. They know when signing up what the time-slot is.

On the other hand, in some areas (like mine), the match days and times are determined by the home team, and can be any time within the week - weekends or evenings. Most teams can't even keep their own home matches on the same day / time because of court scheduling contention with other teams at the same facility. And the match dates are only known a week or two before the season starts, by which time most players have already signed onto teams.

In this case, there are going to be players who have conflicts on many of the match dates, and there's nothing much that can be done about it.

[Angle Queen]

^^

I can't imagine playing on, much less trying to run a team with an unknown match day. It's bad enough around here with unknown match times but at least we know what day we're playing.

Just goes to show you how different league play is, logistically-speaking, around the country.

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Originally Posted by andfor

OK. Reality check for Andy. I get it. Sorry.

Never paid much attention to Ladies rosters. I can see the need for a few more ladies then men to make a roster work.

JRB is a dude ... I played him in a league match today as a matter of fact.

However, very few men's teams around here carry fewer than 20 players. That is unless they are willing to accept several defaults during the season.

In fact one reason both our 4.0 and 4.5 teams have done so well in this district is that our captain refuses to give up a court forfeit to anyone ... he puts out the best lineup he can muster every match.

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Originally Posted by OrangePower

It depends. Do you have a set day of the week and time when all matches are played? If so, then yes I think it's reasonable that a player be available for most of the matches. They know when signing up what the time-slot is.

Originally Posted by Angle Queen

^^

I can't imagine playing on, much less trying to run a team with an unknown match day. It's bad enough around here with unknown match times but at least we know what day we're playing.

Just goes to show you how different league play is, logistically-speaking, around the country.

I play in two districts with set match days and they carry smaller rosters. In my home district we have a random match scheduler which necessitates a much larger roster.

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by dizzlmcwizzl

JRB is a dude ... I played him in a league match today as a matter of fact.

However, very few men's teams around here carry fewer than 20 players. That is unless they are willing to accept several defaults during the season.

In fact one reason both our 4.0 and 4.5 teams have done so well in this district is that our captain refuses to give up a court forfeit to anyone ... he puts out the best lineup he can muster every match.

I feel like a girl after that asskicking. LOL.

[AtomicForehand]

Originally Posted by J_R_B

I feel like a girl after that asskicking. LOL.

I'm a girl and I'll gladly kick your ***.

[Spokewench]

Ok Cindy - I'm a captain have been for years - it is like herding cats when you are dealing with Women. They are much harder than men, they do not know how to commit to a team because many of them never learned when they were small that team is more than just a list of people who play on the same team.

There priorities are always theirs, not their teams's priorities. They will often times complain if you slight them but never think twice when they leave you hanging 24 hours before a match without a player to play.

I'm a little bitter too - cause it is really hard to deal with.

BUT, try being League Coordinator - you wouldn't even believe what people expect, demand and want! But back to the men, I pretty much just schedule the matches and they play. For the women, they can't play 3 weekends of the league season, they want to play only sundays (or saturdays) or they want you to schedule their facilities, etc., etc., etc.

It's a miracle that I have any hair left!

[cak]

Our senior team had a roster of 16 for playing three lines of doubles. We scrambled to fill lineups most weeks, including playoffs. For our senior playoff game yesterday we almost had to forfeit a line, until one of the adult 4.0 teams changed their match time so we could fill a lineup. (Our captain was in the unenviable postion of having exactly 8 players available to fill six sets of doubles and two singles playing at the exact same time.)

My 4.0 adult team has a roster of 19 to fill 3 lines of doubles and two singles. It's only the first month, and we've been up against forfeiting a line every match. Thus far we've pulled through with rainouts (thank goodness) and adding a player to the roster at the last minute. We have yet to have a match where the captain got to pick and chose who was playing.

I'd say one needs at least 18 for a senior team and 18 doubles players and 6 singles players for an adult team. (Yes, three times the number that plays any particular match.)

Note: this is Norcal, where Senior and Adult matches can be schedules any evening with the latest match starting at 8, and all day Saturday and Sunday. When you find you have a match at 6 on a Saturday you pretty much know you are in trouble. And right now, with the shortage of courts at the bigger facilities, those Friday and Saturday night matches that used to be so rare are annoyingly commonplace. Players sign up and then only are available Saturday afternoons when their children don't have soccer games.

[jk175d]

Originally Posted by cak

Our senior team had a roster of 16 for playing three lines of doubles. We scrambled to fill lineups most weeks, including playoffs. For our senior playoff game yesterday we almost had to forfeit a line, until one of the adult 4.0 teams changed their match time so we could fill a lineup. (Our captain was in the unenviable postion of having exactly 8 players available to fill six sets of doubles and two singles playing at the exact same time.)

My 4.0 adult team has a roster of 19 to fill 3 lines of doubles and two singles. It's only the first month, and we've been up against forfeiting a line every match. Thus far we've pulled through with rainouts (thank goodness) and adding a player to the roster at the last minute. We have yet to have a match where the captain got to pick and chose who was playing.

I'd say one needs at least 18 for a senior team and 18 doubles players and 6 singles players for an adult team. (Yes, three times the number that plays any particular match.)

Note: this is Norcal, where Senior and Adult matches can be schedules any evening with the latest match starting at 8, and all day Saturday and Sunday. When you find you have a match at 6 on a Saturday you pretty much know you are in trouble. And right now, with the shortage of courts at the bigger facilities, those Friday and Saturday night matches that used to be so rare are annoyingly commonplace. Players sign up and then only are available Saturday afternoons when their children don't have soccer games.

wow, athat's crazy. We're only allowed 15 players max in our adult spring league here in NC. that's for 3 doubles and two singles. I've got only 12 on my team and haven't had any problems getting 8 out to any match.

It seems a really bad idea to have your matches randomly on weeknights or weekends. No wonder it's hard for players to commit to being available. Why does your leauge do that? Here each league has a designated day/time. For examlpe the 4.5 leauge is always Mon/Thurs nights and the 4.0 league is always Mon/Wed nights. Players know this long in advance and it's much easier for them to make adjustments to their spring schedule in order to be available for those nights.

[cak]

Originally Posted by jk175d

For examlpe the 4.5 leauge is always Mon/Thurs nights and the 4.0 league is always Mon/Wed nights. Players know this long in advance and it's much easier for them to make adjustments to their spring schedule in order to be available for those nights.

So how do you deal with overlaps? It sounds like both 4.0 and 4.5 play Mondays. What about the folks on both teams?

I think that is why captains here have such a hard time with commitments. People sign up for two teams, and then when those teams have matches at the same time they only can play one.

It really comes to a head when seasons overlap. Due to rain, the senior season just started playoffs, three weeks into the adult season. So people still committed to their senior team aren't available for their adult team when the matches are the same time. (Not to mention, getting court time for playoff matches is pretty tough.)

We find that once senior season ends, we might be able to pick up a few doubles players that just couldn't fathom when they could play adults as long as their team was in contention.

[catfish]

Originally Posted by Spokewench

BUT, try being League Coordinator - you wouldn't even believe what people expect, demand and want! But back to the men, I pretty much just schedule the matches and they play. For the women, they can't play 3 weekends of the league season, they want to play only sundays (or saturdays) or they want you to schedule their facilities, etc., etc., etc.

It's a miracle that I have any hair left!

Tell me about it. I've been an LC off and on for several years. You really learn a lot about people and it pretty much ruins playing in leagues. Most players have no clue what an LC actually does, but they certainly feel free to say "the LC is not doing his/her job".

And Cindy, I feel your pain regarding players bailing out. I understand that people have lives, but if they can't look at their schedules and commit to playing 3/4 of the matches then they shouldn't play on the team. I'm a very busy person myself, but I'm organized enough to know whether I can commit to a league season or not.

[cak]

Originally Posted by catfish

I understand that people have lives, but if they can't look at their schedules and commit to playing 3/4 of the matches then they shouldn't play on the team. I'm a very busy person myself, but I'm organized enough to know whether I can commit to a league season or not.

In NorCal you are in a chicken and the egg situation. Do you pick a home match time and sign up a team without knowing if you have any people to sign up? Do you sign people up with them only knowing home match times (1/2 the season)?

There is no way a person can sign up committing to 3/4 of the matches when they don't know the day of the week or times of at least half of those matches.

And there is no way you can sign a team up without knowing you have some number that can play at least half.

If I can't commit to most the home matches I'll wait to see the whole schedule set before I sign up. But that leaves the captain wondering if I will be playing at all or not.

And that doesn't even take into account those folks that don't know their schedule for the next three months before the season starts. You know, those folks that travel for work, or maybe those whose kids start baseball and don't have their schedules yet.

Part of the problem is the length of the seasons. Does everyone have three to four month seasons? (12-16 matches before local playoffs) I'm pretty organized, but I can't possibly know all my Saturdays out for the next 4 months. (5 if you take into account sign ups start a month before the season starts.)

[tennis tom]

Originally Posted by jk175d

wow, athat's crazy.

I was gonna' say that but you took the words out of my head. It was so much simpler back in the day. If you wanted to play tennis you went down to the neighborhood, or school courts, hung your racket on the fence, sat down on the ground or on a bench if there was such a luxury and waited your turn. You played with who ever was up next. If no one was around you hit some serves or practiced against a wall until someone (anyone) showed up. If you made a few bucks you could join a club, and a kindly court monitor would see you drive in and put you into a game by the time you made it to the sign-up board. Everyone behaved nicely towards each other, no primadonnas. No one complained about the food on the club menu which consisted of a hot-dog or a hamburger and a bag of chips. If you wanted to test your tennis mettle you signed up for a tournament and took your lumps on your own. Now HAL takes care of it for you, and tennis has become a caste system based on fractions of a point.

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by catfish

Tell me about it. I've been an LC off and on for several years. You really learn a lot about people and it pretty much ruins playing in leagues. Most players have no clue what an LC actually does, but they certainly feel free to say "the LC is not doing his/her job".

And Cindy, I feel your pain regarding players bailing out. I understand that people have lives, but if they can't look at their schedules and commit to playing 3/4 of the matches then they shouldn't play on the team. I'm a very busy person myself, but I'm organized enough to know whether I can commit to a league season or not.

This is not true at all. I have a couple people on my team that have other commitments (one guy is a coach on his son's baseball team, for example), and I know they won't be at 3/4 or even 1/2 of the matches (I'll be lucky to get 2 or 3 from him). However, he's been on the team for years and is one of the better doubles players on the roster, so I have no problem giving him a roster spot with the understanding that he won't be available for most matches.

[OrangePower]

Originally Posted by jk175d

It seems a really bad idea to have your matches randomly on weeknights or weekends. No wonder it's hard for players to commit to being available. Why does your leauge do that? Here each league has a designated day/time. For examlpe the 4.5 leauge is always Mon/Thurs nights and the 4.0 league is always Mon/Wed nights. Players know this long in advance and it's much easier for them to make adjustments to their spring schedule in order to be available for those nights.

Like cak I am in NorCal. The league cannot dictate when matches take place because each facility has its own restrictions on when courts are available. We have some very busy facilities around here - one club in the area has 22 USTA teams currently playing, another has 18. Of course these clubs also have to accommodate their non-league-playing members, and their lessons / teaching pros, etc. If the USTA required clubs to make courts available at the times USTA wants, then the clubs would have to severely restrict the maximum number of teams they field, and some facilities would decline to participate completely. End result would be less playing opportunities for everyone in the area, and of course less revenue for USTA.

EDIT: I should add that some teams play out of public courts rather than clubs, and those courts have their own sets of restrictions - some are not lighted and so can only be available for weekend matches, some do not allow reservations at certain times because they are set aside for public drop-in use, and so on.