What's level for former pros? - Page 2

0d1n · 12-23-2010, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Datacipher

I am sure he was. McEnroe often had to carry Borg only a couple years after his retirement. Bjorn s style was heavily dependent on huge volumes of practice... But also in this case , courier has a huge age advantage. If courier goes all out he could still hit with something close to tour form, no way Bjorn can be expected to defend against that at his age , in Borg s prime those two wouldn't have been an epic epic battle. Borg is probably one of the few players in history that courier would have feared on clay.

Hmmm, I don't think it's really about "needing a huge amount of practice".
I think it's about Borg's style being the "most modern" of his time, which means his game was more physical than most...let alone McEnroe...regardless of practice time.
In other words his game relies much more on a healthy fast and strong physique than McEnroe's game does. McEnroe has a unique game which isn't as taxing physically (and being the competitive SOB that he is...he is also staying in tip top shape himself...which doesn't hurt).
Also...most of the "veteran" tournaments are played indoors and/or on fast surfaces which pretty much immediately puts McEnroe at an advantage. On clay/slower surfaces Borg's game would still be tough to counter by McEnroe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drakulie

I would say 6.0 plus.

Guys like Courier, Rios, Agassi, sampras could still be competitive with top players,,,,,, but the problem more lies with having to do it for an entire tournament. Night and day, and the type of training they would have to commit to is too much for thier bodies to keep up.

I'm thinking in similar terms. They can still play a set at a very very high level (not top 100 in full flight I think...but still "pro level"). The problem lies with playing 3 sets at that pace, and when you win and have to do it again tomorrow...well...that's pretty much impossible for their aging bodies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoosierbr

Borg is the oldest guy out there. He's even older than McEnroe so give him a break!

He's still pretty quick for a dude in his 50's. Gotta give it to him.

Yup, he's a great guy with a great game...who can still give plenty of young guys some humbling tennis lessons.

joe sch · 12-23-2010, 07:39 AM

The touch, strokes, and mental game skills will all still be world class with former greats and goat contenders. The cardio and foot speed are areas that age handicaps the most. With these considerations, I think that players like McEnroe, Edberg and Sampras would still have the best chance to win sets against the best players in the world because thier games are not based on endurance and footspeed, which are two of the most critical factors in the modern baseline game. Borg has no chance to beat a current world class player from the baseline but the others can still possibly win using the old school tactics. This is one reason I feel that more modern tennis coaches and academies should be teaching the old school styles since I believe championships can still be won using styles other than baseline blasting.

hoodjem · 12-23-2010, 09:31 AM

Here's some high quality stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayGv33lMVj8

joe sch · 12-23-2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Here's some high quality stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayGv33lMVj8

Very entertaining set of dubs Mac/Blake vs Bjorn/Fed.
Nice set point that Lendl would have been proud of

hoodjem · 12-23-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe sch

Very entertaining set of dubs Mac/Blake vs Bjorn/Fed.
Nice set point that Lendl would have been proud of

Only if he's mad at you.

(Ha ha. Good one.)

GoSurfBoy · 12-23-2010, 07:12 PM

Just sort of curious what Head racket Borg is using...All dark blue?

Manus Domini · 12-24-2010, 06:05 AM

they can play at the same level as the pros for a day, maybe not an entire match even, maybe just a set, or maybe a match, depending.

Edberg can beat Safin, who just retired.

I would say that a lot of them don't need their opponents to go easy in exhos to win or get a close match. They are good enough for one match, but they need a cooldown.

@The-Champ, would be great to see JMac and Fed v. Borg and Rafa doubles exho. would be very interesting. In fact, would be great on wimby, where all of them won it

joe sch · 12-24-2010, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoodjem

Only if he's mad at you.

(Ha ha. Good one.)

Yep, I think Mac would have been ****ed to lose a set of dubs to Bjorn and Roger

A rematch will be even more interesting, I think Roger may remember that closer ...

adidasman · 04-18-2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe sch

Very entertaining set of dubs Mac/Blake vs Bjorn/Fed.
Nice set point that Lendl would have been proud of

Federer, Borg, McEnroe...and Blake??? In the immortal words of the Sesame Street song, "One of these things is not like the others..."

JoelDali · 04-18-2012, 09:47 AM

I'm currently playing 4.5

Frank Silbermann · 04-18-2012, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borg number one

Here is some Borg-McEnroe footage from late 2008 CHOcobo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dec5d...eature=related

McEnroe seems to be hitting with a lot more topspin than he did thirty years ago.

hoodjem · 04-18-2012, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Silbermann

McEnroe seems to be hitting with a lot more topspin than he did thirty years ago.

It doesn't have to be much to be more than zero.

pc1 · 04-18-2012, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Silbermann

McEnroe seems to be hitting with a lot more topspin than he did thirty years ago.

Anyone could hit more topspin with today's racquets. You can breath on these racquets and they'll hit topspin for you. lol.

theagassiman · 04-19-2012, 02:57 AM

'Former pros'
Of course there are the "Sampras" former pros (inc Courier, Agassi...)
And "McEnroe" generation.
So they'll both be different.

In fact I've seen Mac trounce Courier before, so I would hazard a guess that its more playing style than age, post 35 yo
e.g Mac beat Pete in Boston once I think

subban · 04-20-2012, 11:40 AM

From that current picture of Borg on a clay court, it looks like he switched completely to a two handed backhand. He used to have a hybrid backhand of starting it out with two hands and then letting go of one hand. Does he still hit his backhand like that? I have not seen him play recently.

ttwarrior1 · 04-20-2012, 10:38 PM

you all must be kids , i see people here everyday that are over 60 years old and beating up on 6.0 and college players

Harry_Wild · 04-20-2012, 11:08 PM

I would say that Sampras could take on Federer and maybe Nadal and win if it was limited set match; like a 2 out of 3 and not the 3 to 5 set match setup. Djokovic I think he could still win over Sampras

Basically, I would say that if it were a limited set matches; most of the retired pros would still be rank as a 7! The only difference is their stamina and maybe a little slower too! But definitely a 7 for Samprass, Agassi, Courier and possibly MacEnroe.

Tobias Fünke · 04-21-2012, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasman

Federer, Borg, McEnroe...and Blake??? In the immortal words of the Sesame Street song, "One of these things is not like the others..."

I think he was a late replacement for Nadal due to a Davis Cup final.

12-23-2010, 07:39 AM	#22
joe sch Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hotel CA Posts: 4,206	The touch, strokes, and mental game skills will all still be world class with former greats and goat contenders. The cardio and foot speed are areas that age handicaps the most. With these considerations, I think that players like McEnroe, Edberg and Sampras would still have the best chance to win sets against the best players in the world because thier games are not based on endurance and footspeed, which are two of the most critical factors in the modern baseline game. Borg has no chance to beat a current world class player from the baseline but the others can still possibly win using the old school tactics. This is one reason I feel that more modern tennis coaches and academies should be teaching the old school styles since I believe championships can still be won using styles other than baseline blasting. Last edited by joe sch : 12-23-2010 at 07:41 AM.

12-23-2010, 09:31 AM	#23
hoodjem G.O.A.T. Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bierlandt Posts: 10,020	Here's some high quality stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayGv33lMVj8 __________________ The smart man thinks he knows a lot; the wise man is aware that he knows little.

04-18-2012, 09:47 AM	#30
JoelDali Legend Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,018	I'm currently playing 4.5 __________________ There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.

04-19-2012, 02:57 AM	#34
theagassiman Rookie Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 323	'Former pros' Of course there are the "Sampras" former pros (inc Courier, Agassi...) And "McEnroe" generation. So they'll both be different. In fact I've seen Mac trounce Courier before, so I would hazard a guess that its more playing style than age, post 35 yo e.g Mac beat Pete in Boston once I think __________________ The obstacle is the path.

04-20-2012, 11:40 AM	#35
subban Rookie Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Forest Hills Gardens, Queens, New York, USA Posts: 182	From that current picture of Borg on a clay court, it looks like he switched completely to a two handed backhand. He used to have a hybrid backhand of starting it out with two hands and then letting go of one hand. Does he still hit his backhand like that? I have not seen him play recently. __________________ Prince TT Scream, Prince Topspin 60lbs, Baseline Counterpuncher, Usta 4.0.