Johnny Mac vs Yann Auzoux

[Qubax]

Who would win today?

Yann Auzoux is the ex-pro from Fuzzy yellow balls....

[subban]

I can't believe I am going to entertain this but here it goes: How old is Yann? What is his background? Was he a former challenger or atp player? What kind of level is he playing at now?

[Limpinhitter]

There's a "how would Mac do against a 5.0 player" in the general pro player section. The general consensus is that Mac would beat any 5.0 player 6-0, 6-0, after an all nighter with a bad hangover, keeping in mind that Mac is probably the best 50 something player in the past 25 years, if not ever. Yann Auzaux is what, a 5.5 level player. I'm willing concede double breadstix, IF Mac came to a 7:00AM match after an all nighter with a bad hangover. If Mac comes ready to play, I Yann will struggle to get a game, IMO.

[josofo]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

There's a "how would Mac do against a 5.0 player" in the general pro player section. The general consensus is that Mac would beat any 5.0 player 6-0, 6-0, after an all nighter with a bad hangover, keeping in mind that Mac is probably the best 50 something player in the past 25 years, if not ever. Yann Auzaux is what, a 5.5 level player. I'm willing concede double breadstix, IF Mac came to a 7:00AM match after an all nighter with a bad hangover. If Mac comes ready to play, I Yann will struggle to get a game, IMO.

interesting post in that thread about a 5.0 losing 6-0 6-3 in a challenger to future 20th ranked player in the world tursenov.

tursenov at was probally playing similar level tennis then that mac is playing now.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by josofo

interesting post in that thread about a 5.0 losing 6-0 6-3 in a challenger to future 20th ranked player in the world tursenov.

tursenov at was probally playing similar level tennis then that mac is playing now.

Do you believe that? In any event, there's a big difference between a one time #20 ATP, and an all time great with multiple major titles.

[mental midget]

Originally Posted by josofo

interesting post in that thread about a 5.0 losing 6-0 6-3 in a challenger to future 20th ranked player in the world tursenov.

tursenov at was probally playing similar level tennis then that mac is playing now.

hahaha. interesting quote. . . . by you.

(whispering) people can see your username. . .

[subban]

Originally Posted by josofo

interesting post in that thread about a 5.0 losing 6-0 6-3 in a challenger to future 20th ranked player in the world tursenov.

tursenov at was probally playing similar level tennis then that mac is playing now.

Surprising, a 5.0 player managed to get 3 games off a top 20 atp player. Probably more Tursenov giving some games to the other guy to make him look good. If he was playing serious, I doubt the 5.0 player could get 3 points off him.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by subban

Surprising, a 5.0 player managed to get 3 games off a top 20 atp player. Probably more Tursenov giving some games to the other guy to make him look good. If he was playing serious, I doubt the 5.0 player could get 3 points off him.

If you believe the story at all, Tursunov was supposedly playing a challenger, not anywhere near top 20 yet.

[DoctorBackhand]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

There's a "how would Mac do against a 5.0 player" in the general pro player section. The general consensus is that Mac would beat any 5.0 player 6-0, 6-0, after an all nighter with a bad hangover, keeping in mind that Mac is probably the best 50 something player in the past 25 years, if not ever. Yann Auzaux is what, a 5.5 level player. I'm willing concede double breadstix, IF Mac came to a 7:00AM match after an all nighter with a bad hangover. If Mac comes ready to play, I Yann will struggle to get a game, IMO.

I don't think you payed attention to Yann's credentials. He was ranked in the 300s (or 200s) in the ATP and played davis cup. He is more than likely a 6.0 and it was agreed upon that a 6.0 could get a few games.

Originally Posted by subban

Surprising, a 5.0 player managed to get 3 games off a top 20 atp player. Probably more Tursenov giving some games to the other guy to make him look good. If he was playing serious, I doubt the 5.0 player could get 3 points off him.

After reading this in the other thread I was thinking it wasn't likely Tursenov was trying to make a point of showing the absolute gap between himself and the 5.0 by going all out just for the sake of an obscure argument on TT, I'd surmise his goal that day was to do enough to win easily but pace himself for several matches. I don't think a 5.0 could get a point off an ATP pro if the pro were serious about not letting him get a point, however, it's just that it's not worth pro's effort to make a golden set for no particular reason. So really, that score is completely meaningless to the whole Mac vs 5.0 thing which is also completely meaningless.....

[vegasgt3]

You've got to be kidding. Pros make mistakes too and of course hit better shots more consistently than 5.0 players. But, that doesn't mean they couldn't get a game of two especially if they had a big serve.

I remember when I was a 18 year old 5.0 player I played a top 50 player and lost 6-1, 6-1. I had to hit the lines on my serves to get points or get a return that I could handle. But, I got to 30-30 a bunch of times, and I was not big deal although I went on to play college tennis.

That same year this player barely lost to Johnny Mac (in doubles) and aced him plenty.

[10sDog]

Originally Posted by DoctorBackhand

I don't think you payed attention to Yann's credentials. He was ranked in the 300s (or 200s) in the ATP and played davis cup. He is more than likely a 6.0 and it was agreed upon that a 6.0 could get a few games.

My guess he was about 5.3-5.4 or very good open player. He actually was ranked about 1379 in doubles (no points) and unranked in singles for maybe a year as an ATP member (1998-99). I don't think he had any main draw results. He played for Cameroon in World Group III Davis Cup and lost to Algeria and Malta.

[10sDog]

Originally Posted by 10sDog

My guess he was about 5.3-5.4 or very good open player. He actually was ranked about 1379 in doubles (no points) and unranked in singles for maybe a year as an ATP member (1998-99). I don't think he had any main draw results. He played for Cameroon in World Group III Davis Cup and lost to Algeria and Malta.

Or equal to a #5-6 player for a Div I team ranked 40-50.

[niktub]

Not sure if it has been posted.
Bigmac wins

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/801...deo-uncensored

[Lukhas]

5.3 or 5.4? Are all of you serious? Granville is 5.5, Troy, Mike, Mark and Chris are 5.0. And they are arguably better than most of the people of their rating because it's their job. College players are over that (http://www.youtube.com/user/Maximagq?feature=watch). World class players are even higher. No kind of 5.0 would get a game out of a top 500 ATP player except on a very bad day. You don't suddenly become that bad because you retire, especially technically (built in muscle memory). Pro players are 7.0, world class players. And the ranking stops there because there are of course some guys even higher than this. They can put an end to a point with you anytime they want.

McEnroe plays the senior tour, Auzoux coaches and seems to have his academy. So while Auzoux may be less good than before since he doesn't play seriously anymore, and JMac because he's older, you don't become that bad so fast.

[10sDog]

Originally Posted by Lukhas

5.3 or 5.4? Are all of you serious? Granville is 5.5, Troy, Mike, Mark and Chris are 5.0. And they are arguably better than most of the people of their rating because it's their job. College players are over that (http://www.youtube.com/user/Maximagq?feature=watch). World class players are even higher. No kind of 5.0 would get a game out of a top 500 ATP player except on a very bad day. You don't suddenly become that bad because you retire, especially technically (built in muscle memory). Pro players are 7.0, world class players. And the ranking stops there because there are of course some guys even higher than this. They can put an end to a point with you anytime they want.

McEnroe plays the senior tour, Auzoux coaches and seems to have his academy. So while Auzoux may be less good than before since he doesn't play seriously anymore, and JMac because he's older, you don't become that bad so fast.

By official NTRP ratings (from USTA sources), believe it or not, yes 5.3-5.4. I know some confidential info on the actual ratings. For example, a couple top Ivy players were rated 5.599 or 5.499. They would be ranked about 100-250 in ITAs individual rankings. I agree those numbers are lower than we expect. A US junior ranked 50-75 nationally or let's say #7 in ******* or Texas would actually be rated maybe 5.400-5.450 but a player like Alex Domijan of Virginia might be rated 6.200.

However, popularly, people like to use a slightly more inflated ratings. So we like to think Domijan as maybe 6.3-6.4 and in 2 years when he gets out on the tour he'll probably get to 150 ATP in his first year, top 50 in his second, and potentially like Isner a top 15 player. So I thought those Ivy players should be rated 5.7-5.8 but I was given the actual number which was lower. On that rating system, Yann should be 5.5-5.6. But again, that's a good open division player or a US junior ranked 50-75 (when he was playing for Cameroon). World Group II often has ATP players ranked 75-500 (playing for maybe Finland, Israel, New Zealand, Ecuador, Mexico, etc). World Group III usually is a bit lower, maybe ATP 500 and lower. Given he and Cameroon lost his matches, my guess is that he was at the bottom of WG3 and maybe ATP 1300-1700 (US junior top 50) at best.

That might play #4-6 for a team ranked #15-20 in NCAA Div 1. But maybe not. I've seen even lower players (playing #4-5 for a team ranked #50) beat ATP #500. Very competitive level.

[10sDog]

Originally Posted by Lukhas

5.3 or 5.4? Are all of you serious? Granville is 5.5, Troy, Mike, Mark and Chris are 5.0. And they are arguably better than most of the people of their rating because it's their job. College players are over that (http://www.youtube.com/user/Maximagq?feature=watch). World class players are even higher. No kind of 5.0 would get a game out of a top 500 ATP player except on a very bad day. You don't suddenly become that bad because you retire, especially technically (built in muscle memory). Pro players are 7.0, world class players. And the ranking stops there because there are of course some guys even higher than this. They can put an end to a point with you anytime they want.

McEnroe plays the senior tour, Auzoux coaches and seems to have his academy. So while Auzoux may be less good than before since he doesn't play seriously anymore, and JMac because he's older, you don't become that bad so fast.

Still means Yann is an excellent player (see my comments). Maybe he if played ITF juniors, he might have been #200-250 which would be top 5 (and Davis Cup) in many small countries.

[10sDog]

Originally Posted by subban

I can't believe I am going to entertain this but here it goes: How old is Yann? What is his background? Was he a former challenger or atp player? What kind of level is he playing at now?

He's 41 this month. He played Davis Cup for Cameroon (World Group III) and may have had points in ATP doubles (ranked in doubles in 1998-99 #1379 but that might be 1 or 0 pts). From one video with Will Hamilton, he looks fit and is probably 5.0-5.2. I use an NTRP scale that is close to the actual values. There's a note below questioning when I suggested he was 5.3-5.4 but USTAs NTRP actually has rated players ranked 100-200 in ITA singles (Div 1) around 5.5-5.6.
Given Yann played and didn't win for Cameroon would suggest he might have been 5.3-5.4 (in popular NTRP, that may translate to 6.0 but often if you call yourself a 5.5 player, your computer rating is lower...like 5.077 for example). My guess he may still play fairly close to that level since he looks very fit. So if he plays in USTA Mid-Atlantic, he might be ranked #3-5 in men's open.

[10sDog]

Originally Posted by Lukhas

5.3 or 5.4? Are all of you serious? Granville is 5.5, Troy, Mike, Mark and Chris are 5.0. And they are arguably better than most of the people of their rating because it's their job. College players are over that (http://www.youtube.com/user/Maximagq?feature=watch). World class players are even higher. No kind of 5.0 would get a game out of a top 500 ATP player except on a very bad day. You don't suddenly become that bad because you retire, especially technically (built in muscle memory). Pro players are 7.0, world class players. And the ranking stops there because there are of course some guys even higher than this. They can put an end to a point with you anytime they want.

McEnroe plays the senior tour, Auzoux coaches and seems to have his academy. So while Auzoux may be less good than before since he doesn't play seriously anymore, and JMac because he's older, you don't become that bad so fast.

Yann is obviously a very fine coach. And many of the best coaches are not former top 100 ATP players. Rather many of the best players are the best athletes and competitors, not the best students of the game. There are exceptions notably Ivan Lendl who always had an interest in junior tennis (he would volunteer for USTA Committees and drive kids to tournaments including his daughters) and now coaching. Darren Cahill is another fine example. But they are the exception (try watching a Boris Becker video lesson...but that doesn't disqualify his coaching ability).

Yes, there is a gap between the actual computer NTRPs and the popularly stated NTRP. Usually someone who says they are 5.5 is more like, for example, 5.107. That rating would fall into the 5.5 class. The top 300 players are 6.5-7.0 if rated (I can ask if the USTA committee actually tries that). Top college or ITF players are 6.0-6.5. A top USTA junior is typically 5.5-6.0. So Federer might be 6.978, Blake 6.841 (but keep in mind they are not officially rated), Alex Domijan 6.189, then #5 on UCLA is 5.671, or US #45 Boys 5.463, US #166 Boys 5.102 (still classified as 5.5), USTA Eastern B18 #45 4.882, etc. A Kalamazoo winner might be 5.8-6.1

It is quite difficult for a 5.0 to get a game off a player equal to top 500 ATP.
Even winning rallies is a challenge sometimes. I've seen that among my colleagues and players. BTW, there is not such thing as "muscle memory" but rather neuromuscular motor control/skills if you mean that.

[10sDog]

Originally Posted by Lukhas

5.3 or 5.4? Are all of you serious? Granville is 5.5, Troy, Mike, Mark and Chris are 5.0. And they are arguably better than most of the people of their rating because it's their job. College players are over that (http://www.youtube.com/user/Maximagq?feature=watch). World class players are even higher. No kind of 5.0 would get a game out of a top 500 ATP player except on a very bad day. You don't suddenly become that bad because you retire, especially technically (built in muscle memory). Pro players are 7.0, world class players. And the ranking stops there because there are of course some guys even higher than this. They can put an end to a point with you anytime they want.

McEnroe plays the senior tour, Auzoux coaches and seems to have his academy. So while Auzoux may be less good than before since he doesn't play seriously anymore, and JMac because he's older, you don't become that bad so fast.

Yann may well have been 5.500-5.700 (rather than 5.3-5.4) when playing Davis Cup but there's so few results (I could only find 2 losses). That's equal to playing #1-2 for a typical Ivy League school.