Wow, NFL great Junior Seau dead?

[Ronaldo]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Don't tennis player's compete? Why don't many of them commit suicide?

No job, no wifey, plenty of booze to mask the pain. Suicide, nah, sign me up. Get busy living

[hollywood9826]

Originally Posted by tricky

Yes.

http://deadspin.com/5867720/death-is...-1994-chargers

Wow

In 1998, LB Doug Miller was struck by lightning while camping in Colorado. CPR was being performed on Miller when he was struck again by a second bolt.



Thursday, July 23, 1998 Last modified at 1:35 a.m. on Thursday, July 23, 1998

Miller dies after being hit by lightning

DOTSERO, Colo. (AP) - Doug Miller, a linebacker for the San Diego Chargers in the 1995 Super Bowl, was killed by lightning. He was 28.

Miller was hit by lightning twice Tuesday night while camping on the Colorado River, according to Garfield County Sheriff Tom Delessandri.

A friend, David Petterson, told deputies Miller was hit by a bolt of lightning and Petterson was "performing CPR on Miller when another lightning bolt hit Mr. Miller," Dalessandri said. Petterson said both bolts missed him.

Miller played for South Dakota State before being drafted by San Diego in the seventh round in 1993.

Miller played in the Blue Gray All-Star game. He had been working as a graduate assistant at California.

[LuckyR]

Originally Posted by ollinger

The research on athlete suicide suggests it's not the loss of athletic ability, aderenaline high, or loss of attention/glory that impacts them. The risk factors that increase suicide generally among men -- divorce, alcohol abuse, lack of employment, chronic pain -- are all very prevalent among retired NFL players, who have a suicide rate six times that of the general population.

But is there any data to show that the highlit reasons don't lead to more divorce, alcohol abuse and emotional issues that would impact employability?

It's all valid. Only the overly simplistic would ignore the very atypical lives that NFL retirees have lived, starting well before they ever played Pro ball.

[ollinger]

^^ If loss of attention and glory were important factors, we'd expect to see high suicide rates in former players from other sports as well, and we don't. The suicide rate for current and ex baseball players is quite low, according to data I saw some years ago. I can't offhand recall an ex tennis pro committing suicide. Former players from those sports don't have the high rate of chronic pain seen in football players, don't have as aggressive personality traits, and don't have the cognitive issues from recurrent head trauma.

[Fearsome Forehand]

Originally Posted by ollinger

^^ If loss of attention and glory were important factors, we'd expect to see high suicide rates in former players from other sports as well, and we don't. The suicide rate for current and ex baseball players is quite low, according to data I saw some years ago. I can't offhand recall an ex tennis pro committing suicide. Former players from those sports don't have the high rate of chronic pain seen in football players, don't have as aggressive personality traits, and don't have the cognitive issues from recurrent head trauma.

Unlike tennis or baseball, football is a very violent game and those who are big, or big and fast, and also very good at physical violence excel at football. That propensity to be violent would seem to be as big a factor in the suicide rate of ex-football players as concussions.

Do boxers have a statistically significant higher than average rate of suicide? They should have an ever higher rate of concussions in an even more violent sport. If the argument holds, they should have an even higher rate of suicide than football players.

Don't dentists have a high rate of suicide? What is the cause? We could argue that an obsession with flossing leads to suicide.

Do gun owners have a higher rate of suicide? Does criminality correlate with suicide rate? We are talking about the National Felon League after all. Most of these guys own weapons. And the rate of criminality in the NFL seems much higher than the societal average. I can see the concussions made me do it defense coming soon.

Most people who commit suicide have never played football. Most people who have mental illness (suicidal depression) or otherwise have never played football.

Seau had mental illness problems of some sort. He tried to drive his car off a cliff a few years back. That should have been everyone's first clue.

If the stats indicate someone who has had one or more serious concussions is much more likely to commit suicide than someone who has not maybe there is a correlation.

The NFL Players Union is angling for money and that is a lot of what is driving this argument. Concussions are a hazard of certain sports, just like knee injuries are in other sports, or arm problems are in tennis. No one forces anyone to play a certain sport. It is an individual choice. You play, you pay.

That said, the NFL should make sure they educate players as to the risks of injury, financial management, etc. Unfortunately, most of the players have been coddled all their lives due to their athletic abilities. They are taught that the normal rules don't apply to them and many seem dumber than rocks. Despite making huge sums for a number of years, something like 80% are broke within a few years of retirement. That is very telling.

I would never advise a kid to play organized football unless he is huge, fast and violent as hell because the sport seems to select for those attributes. Tennis is a much better game IMHO.

[volleygirl]

Originally Posted by Fearsome Forehand

Unlike tennis or baseball, football is a very violent game and those who are big, or big and fast, and also very good at physical violence excel at football. That propensity to be violent would seem to be as big a factor in the suicide rate of ex-football players as concussions.

Do boxers have a statistically significant higher than average rate of suicide? They should have an ever higher rate of concussions in an even more violent sport. If the argument holds, they should have an even higher rate of suicide than football players.

Don't dentists have a high rate of suicide? What is the cause? We could argue that an obsession with flossing leads to suicide.

Do gun owners have a higher rate of suicide? We are talking about the National Felon League after all. Most of these guys own weapons. And the rate of criminality in the NFL seems much higher than the societal average. I can see the concussions made me do it defense coming soon.

Most people who commit suicide who have never played football. Most people who have mental illness (suicidal depression) or otherwise never played football.

Seau had mental illness problems of some sort. He tried to drive his car off a cliff a few years back. That should have been everyone's first clue.

If the stats indicate someone who has had one or more serious concussions is much more likely to commit suicide than someone who has not maybe there is a correlation.

The NFL Players Union is angling for money and that is a lot of what is driving this argument. Concussions are a hazard of certain sports, just like knee injuries are in other sports, or arm problems are in tennis. No one forces anyone to play a certain sport. It is an individual choice. You play, you pay.

That said, the NFL should make sure they educate players as to the risks of injury, financial management, etc. Unfortunatel, most of the players have been coddled all their lives due to their athletic abilities. They are taught that the normal rules don't apply to them and many seem dumber than rocks. Despite making huge sums for a number of years, something like 80% are broke within a few years of retirement. That is very telling.

I would never advise a kid to play organized football unless he is huge, fast and violent as hell because the sport seems to select for those attributes. Tennis is a much better game IMHO.

Did you see there are now over 1,500 former NFL players jumping on the bandwagon to sue the NFL? These guys act like they had no idea it was a dangerous sport to go into. They got paid handsomely, blew all that money, and now want the NFL to pay them again? The NFL is gonna see a huge dropoff in popularity IMO because they are gonna legislate all the hits out of the game to protect themselves from these bogus lawsuits. All the rules are set up to protect the offensive players and to put up more points while the defensive players are expected to gently tackle a 6'7" TE going over the middle. Thats not what made the NFL king.

[angharad]

Originally Posted by volleygirl

Did you see there are now over 1,500 former NFL players jumping on the bandwagon to sue the NFL? These guys act like they had no idea it was a dangerous sport to go into. They got paid handsomely, blew all that money, and now want the NFL to pay them again? The NFL is gonna see a huge dropoff in popularity IMO because they are gonna legislate all the hits out of the game to protect themselves from these bogus lawsuits. All the rules are set up to protect the offensive players and to put up more points while the defensive players are expected to gently tackle a 6'7" TE going over the middle. Thats not what made the NFL king.

I agree that the lawsuit is bogus, but much of the knowledge we have about how dangerous the game is, particularly in brain trauma, has only come recently. I don't think the NFL ever tried to actively cover up the ramifications of concussions, but there was true ignorance throughout the league and the medical community as to what constituted concussion and what the long-term effects of concussion could be.

As a side note, many of the early NFL players (pre-1980s strike) were not paid all that handsomely nor were they taken care of the way more modern players were. Hell, many players today aren't making millions.

[jamesblakefan#1]

Originally Posted by volleygirl

Did you see there are now over 1,500 former NFL players jumping on the bandwagon to sue the NFL? These guys act like they had no idea it was a dangerous sport to go into. They got paid handsomely, blew all that money, and now want the NFL to pay them again? The NFL is gonna see a huge dropoff in popularity IMO because they are gonna legislate all the hits out of the game to protect themselves from these bogus lawsuits. All the rules are set up to protect the offensive players and to put up more points while the defensive players are expected to gently tackle a 6'7" TE going over the middle. Thats not what made the NFL king.

You forget about the journeymen players that don't get multi million dollar contracts and are left debilitated after their careers with relatively little pension from the NFL. What the NFL gives guys in retirement benefits is peanuts compared to the revenue the league makes.

The NFL's pension plan covers every eligible player (meaning he played four years in the league) since 1920. That four-year requirement drops to three for players in the league after 1992. Full benefits are available at the age of 55, with a minimum payout of $200 a month for each season played in the NFL.

That monthly payout, based on the number of seasons played, does not amount to millions. Even a veteran like Darrell Green, who retired in 2002 after 20 seasons, will only be looking at $5,805 per month. Approximately $70,000 per year or $290 a month for each season played.

And despite the fact that the total pension fund was raised to $40 million annually in 2002, there are still disputes over payouts. In May 2004, the estate of Mike Webster began the legal process to sue the NFL's retirement and disability plans over his pension. Webster, who died in 2002, allegedly suffered brain damage while playing in the NFL. With his 1999 request for full disability benefits rejected, he ended up in debt and homeless for a short time. In 2005 his estate received full retroactive benefits, which amounted to $1.18 million plus interest and fees, dating back to 1991. Of course the NFL appealed, but in 2006 the U.S. Court of Appeals backed the ruling of the original federal judge.

http://www.askmen.com/sports/busines...#ixzz1tpjXidFf

[hollywood9826]

I think the issue with the lawsuit is that they are claiming the NFL had knowledge of these issues and didnt not present it to the players union in an attempt to not have to act on it.

They will all agree that the game is dangerous. And its possible some people will not risk the effects.

But I think most teenagers young 20's types will take the chance.

[volleygirl]

I cant believe that "steroids and HGH" arent being talked about more as a problem in the NFL. With 8 players off that 1994 SD Chargers super bowl team already dead at such young ages, its ridiculous that they are closing their eyes to the performance enhancing drug problem in the NFL. With Goddell continually talking about "player safety," i dont think theres one thing that could improve players safety more than drug testing to get the cheating players out of the league so the athletes are on level playing fields. Protect the players by getting the roiders out.

[maverick66]

Originally Posted by volleygirl

I cant believe that "steroids and HGH" arent being talked about more as a problem in the NFL. With 8 players off that 1994 SD Chargers super bowl team already dead at such young ages, its ridiculous that they are closing their eyes to the performance enhancing drug problem in the NFL. With Goddell continually talking about "player safety," i dont think theres one thing that could improve players safety more than drug testing to get the cheating players out of the league so the athletes are on level playing fields. Protect the players by getting the roiders out.

Most of them had substance abuse issues more related to pain killers than performance enhancers. Also blaming roids for this doesnt work at all. Seau had mental health issues that will probably slowly come to the public eye now.

People shouldnt go on a crusade about something they have no knowledge about. I suggest you watch the documentary Bigger, Stronger, Faster about performance enhancers than decide if you really feel they are killing athletes.

[onehandbh]

His blitzes never surprised me, but I'm shocked to hear about his passing

[LuckyR]

Originally Posted by ollinger

^^ If loss of attention and glory were important factors, we'd expect to see high suicide rates in former players from other sports as well, and we don't. The suicide rate for current and ex baseball players is quite low, according to data I saw some years ago. I can't offhand recall an ex tennis pro committing suicide. Former players from those sports don't have the high rate of chronic pain seen in football players, don't have as aggressive personality traits, and don't have the cognitive issues from recurrent head trauma.

Three things: Football players (unlike baseball and tennis) retire much, much earlier and therefore the retirement is more a drastic life interuption. Second, in the US they have a much bigger ego buildup in HS and college than baseball and tennis players do (therefore contributing to bigger let down). Cheerleaders at college baseball games and tennis matches? ummm, no.... Lastly, I would argue that football selects for a different calibre of individual, perhaps an individual much less equipped to deal with the issues discussed here than the average tennis player or baseball player, not that they are all thoughtful individuals. I agree about the selection for aggressiveness and head trauma.

[volleygirl]

Originally Posted by maverick66

Most of them had substance abuse issues more related to pain killers than performance enhancers. Also blaming roids for this doesnt work at all. Seau had mental health issues that will probably slowly come to the public eye now.

People shouldnt go on a crusade about something they have no knowledge about. I suggest you watch the documentary Bigger, Stronger, Faster about performance enhancers than decide if you really feel they are killing athletes.

I am not just talking about the Seau death, I am talking about the "safety" of the players and the possible side effects these drugs have on them years after they have stopped playing. . The size and speed of many of the players is enhanced by performance enhancing drugs and if you dont believe that, then you are as blind as the people running baseball were when they acted like they didnt know over half their players were cheating.

[maverick66]

Originally Posted by volleygirl

I am not just talking about the Seau death, I am talking about the "safety" of the players and the possible side effects these drugs have on them years after they have stopped playing. . The size and speed of many of the players is enhanced by performance enhancing drugs and if you dont believe that, then you are as blind as the people running baseball were when they acted like they didnt know over half their players were cheating.

I was gonna type out a long post about why I think you are wrong but this isnt the thread for it.

[tricky]

Maverick66 is right. I'm not advocating PEDs, but there's a lot of misconceptions about it. It's nothing like addiction to painkillers, which is perhaps a worse problem in the NHL.

[volleygirl]

Originally Posted by tricky

Maverick66 is right. I'm not advocating PEDs, but there's a lot of misconceptions about it. It's nothing like addiction to painkillers, which is perhaps a worse problem in the NHL.

So a sport like baseball had a HUGE problem with PEDs but a sport like football where size and speed enhancement would help even more doesnt have any problem at all? Amazing if you believe that.

[hollywood9826]

Originally Posted by onehandbh

His blitzes never surprised me, but I'm shocked to hear about his passing

I get it, maybe a little too soon. But I get it

Originally Posted by LuckyR

Three things: Football players (unlike baseball and tennis) retire much, much earlier and therefore the retirement is more a drastic life interuption. Second, in the US they have a much bigger ego buildup in HS and college than baseball and tennis players do (therefore contributing to bigger let down). Cheerleaders at college baseball games and tennis matches? ummm, no.... Lastly, I would argue that football selects for a different calibre of individual, perhaps an individual much less equipped to deal with the issues discussed here than the average tennis player or baseball player, not that they are all thoughtful individuals. I agree about the selection for aggressiveness and head trauma.

Plus in baseball there are more ways to stay involved in the game. Every team had at least minor league affilites and if you wanted to go down the coaching or scouting roads they are there.

Most football players do not get to end thier career on thier own terms. They show up to camp and get told they are cut and some guy is taking over.

Originally Posted by volleygirl

So a sport like baseball had a HUGE problem with PEDs but a sport like football where size and speed enhancement would help even more doesnt have any problem at all? Amazing if you believe that.

In the NFL you can get suspended for 4 games in a season and win the defensive player of the year award in that same year. They dont care about PEDs until the public makes it an issue. But the NFL has the common fans so into the hard hits and galiator type stuff nobody seems to mind.

Players can get suspended for a game for a illegal hard hit but then the NFL will include that hit in an end of year hard hits video you can purchase.

[maverick66]

Originally Posted by volleygirl

So a sport like baseball had a HUGE problem with PEDs but a sport like football where size and speed enhancement would help even more doesnt have any problem at all? Amazing if you believe that.

We know they take stuff but that isnt why they are having suicide rates through the roof.

There isnt much link to PEDS and suicide if there was track and field athletes would be dropping dead left and right. Tennis players, Soccer players, cyclists, basketball,hockey, and just about every other sport would be dropping dead left and right. They all take them its just a fact of life now. So yes other things are what is causing football players issues.

[tricky]

Originally Posted by volleygirl

So a sport like baseball had a HUGE problem with PEDs but a sport like football where size and speed enhancement would help even more doesnt have any problem at all? Amazing if you believe that.

Maverick is discussing causal link between PEDs and extreme depression. It's just not very strong. Addiction to painkillers? Very, very strong.