Female Clay Court GOAT

[suwanee4712]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

It is hard to rank someone like Sabatini since she was such a force on the regular clay circuit. To never make a French Open final was shameful for her though, even in the era she played in. She also lost some big matches from ahead at Roland Garros, 87 FO semis vs Graf, 92 FO semis vs Seles, and worst of all that horrific 93 FO quarterfinal vs Fernandez where she would have had a way off form Sanchez in the semis, and a well below her best Graf in the final. The last loss was her last great chance of winning a major, and destroyed her career for her (albeit she already seemed on slight decline before then).

Martinez tended to be hugely consistent on clay except when she ran into one of the dominant big hitting and mentally tough type champion girls, and she seemed to have no answer to them, even on clay. Her many Premier type clay titles often came vs good opposition, but she also tended to need to avoid Graf and Seles, and sometimes even Sanchez or Pierce.

Mandlikova obviously underperformed on the main clay circuit outside Roland Garros given her performances at Roland Garros. She should have had some better titles on clay than the ones I mentioned outside her RG win, or atleast more finals. Evert and Navratilova certainly didnt play every decent sized clay event back then.

For whatever reason Hana only played Rome a few times and only once after 1982. In years where the weather was warm and dry she likely would've done well. Not sure why she played Berlin more often later in her career. It was usually wet and/or cold which didn't suit her game and actually was the beginning of her career long back injury at the 1981 Berlin event because of the heavy conditions. She did help the Czechs win 2 Fed Cups on red clay and beat everyone of consequence on that surface except Martina (0-3).

Its interesting that you mentioned the 1987 French match between Graf and Sabatini. For the lack of a better word, I always felt that was the biggest match of their rivalry and put Grad in the drivers seat for good. Had she beaten Grad it would've. put more pressure on Steffi who had not yet won a slam. I think Martina would've. won that hypothetical final, but imagine what a French title might have done for her career.

[NadalAgassi]

Sabatini beat Martina 7-6, 6-1 at Rome that year. I actually think Sabatini would have won that hypothetical final but it is pretty much a 50-50 call. Either way I agree the pressure on Graf would have rose further had she lost that match.

Graf always seemed to have a HUGE chip on her shoulder when playing Sabatini though, despite getting the better of their rivalry by a long ways. I think she viewed Sabatini's talents and abilities as far beneath her own and resented that Gaby could have challenge her and beat her as many times as she did. When Sabatini briefly dominated their head to head from mid 1990-mid 1992, that was the most miserable I saw Graf look on the tennis court in general (also around the same time Seles began dominating the game too of course). What is ironic is she seemed to respect Sanchez Vicario infinitely more despite that Aranxta IMO was a less talented player than Sabatini.

[dannykl]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

Graf always seemed to have a HUGE chip on her shoulder when playing Sabatini though, despite getting the better of their rivalry by a long ways. I think she viewed Sabatini's talents and abilities as far beneath her own and resented that Gaby could have challenge her and beat her as many times as she did. When Sabatini briefly dominated their head to head from mid 1990-mid 1992, that was the most miserable I saw Graf look on the tennis court in general (also around the same time Seles began dominating the game too of course). What is ironic is she seemed to respect Sanchez Vicario infinitely more despite that Aranxta IMO was a less talented player than Sabatini.

Both Sanchez and Sabatini have good relations with Graf despite their long rivalry on court. From mid 1990 to 1992, a period when Graf was deeply troubled by family problems and media malicious attacks, she not only had bad losses to Sabatini, but also 2 big losses to Sanchez in the Aus and the US Open. The family scandal is first revealed by tabloid in mid 1990 just day before the final of the Berlin, Graf lost that final to Seles and the French Open final 2 weeks later. She also broke down in front of media in Wim that year and lost in the semi in Wim.

Steffi loves his father, his father plays a vital role in her tennis career. He brings her into tennis world, coaches her, manages her career. Peter has tremendous influence on Steffi in family life and in tennis career. So the family trouble by Peter really has great impact on a young Graf who was previously well protected by Peter. She loves her father, her famliy, but she had to learn to accept and face the hurt his father has done to her and her family.

She gradually overcame the trouble and become a mentally stronger and more mature player.

She still has a loving and close relation with her father after all these family troubles. She also brings Agassi back to his father, according to old Agassi. She shows us family love can overcome hate and hurt. And now Steffi has her own loving family with 2 kids. Very happy for her. She is the person who really understands and believes the meaning of love.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by dannykl

Both Sanchez and Sabatini have good relations with Graf despite their long rivalry on court. From mid 1990 to 1992, a period when Graf was deeply troubled by family problems and media malicious attacks, she not only had bad losses to Sabatini, but also 2 big losses to Sanchez in the Aus and the US Open. The family scandal is first revealed by tabloid in mid 1990 just day before the final of the Berlin, Graf lost that final to Seles and the French Open final 2 weeks later. She also broke down in front of media in Wim that year and lost in the semi in Wim.

Steffi loves his father, his father plays a vital role in her tennis career. He brings her into tennis world, coaches her, manages her career. Peter has tremendous influence on Steffi in family life and in tennis career. So the family trouble by Peter really has great impact on a young Graf who was previously well protected by Peter. She loves her father, her famliy, but she had to learn to accept and face the hurt his father has done to her and her family.

She gradually overcame the trouble and become a mentally stronger and more mature player.

She still has a loving and close relation with her father after all these family troubles. She also brings Agassi back to his father, according to old Agassi. She shows us family love can overcome hate and hurt. And now Steffi has her own loving family with 2 kids. Very happy for her. She is the person who really understands and believes the meaning of love.

3 Steffi Graf posts in a row, in 3 separate threads. It's Joe Pike with details about Steffi Graf and her family that only Joe Pike cares about.

[BTURNER]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

3 Steffi Graf posts in a row, in 3 separate threads. It's Joe Pike with details about Steffi Graf and her family that only Joe Pike cares about.

God, I hope not. We do not need every thread derailed by Steffi talk.

[kiki]

Pike is back...c´mon, tell me what would have Graf accomplished had not been for Sylvia Hanika pathfinding her...