NTRP Singles?

[SuperLotto]

I am on a quest to get bumped up to 4.0 from 3.5. My team needed someone to step up to play singles against a tough team. I went in and lost 0-6, 0-6. Will that severely hinder my changes of being bumped up? Even if I win a couple of doubles 4.0 matches? Did I make a mistake to step up?

[SweetH2O]

You lucked out. From what I've been told here, the USTA computer doesn't know how to handle 0-6 0-6 scores so it doesn't count towards your rating. This is basically because the computer cannot tell if you played at a level 0.5 below your opponent, or 1.0 below, or 1.5 below, etc.

[floridatennisdude]

Was this bagel-bagel drubbing at 3.5? 4.0? Just curious as it would indicate that you are far from a 4.0 rating either way. If you took these at 3.5, I wouldn't worry about getting to 4.0...you aren't close. If at 4.0, you might be closer. Still, just doesn't seem like anyone is ready for a bump up if they take bagels in NTRP C rating levels.

[olliess]

Hmm one question though, do you understood what happened to produce that score?

Absent any other information, if you are facing a score of 6-0 6-0 in 4.0 singles then do you really want to get bumped up?

[beernutz]

Originally Posted by SuperLotto

I am on a quest to get bumped up to 4.0 from 3.5. My team needed someone to step up to play singles against a tough team. I went in and lost 0-6, 0-6. Will that severely hinder my changes of being bumped up? Even if I win a couple of doubles 4.0 matches? Did I make a mistake to step up?

Was this a 3.5 or 4.0 match? Saying you "stepped up" to play a tough team is just vague enough to make this unclear. What was your opponent's rating? Were they self-rated, computer-rated, or a benchmark? What was their record prior to playing you?

[anubis]

There's often ppl on teams that self-rate themselves low and are really supposed to be a level or two above.

Perhaps you got unlucky and faced someone that is a 4.5 masquerading as a 3.5. The good thing for you is they likely won't stay in 3.5 or even 4.0 next season, so you won't have to face them again.

Bad news is there are almost always team members that are "trolling" unsuspecting lower levels and many levels of play.

Or, to be more fair, sometimes players are rated at one level but disagree so they appeal the rating thru USTA. This means they have to "slum" it at lower teams until USTA makes the correction. I would think it professional courtesy for the. To tell you before a match "Look, I'm a 4.5 and in the middle of an appeal." Then, at least you aren't completely blind-sided.

[TennisProdigy]

Lol... If you get doubled bageled in a 4.0 match, I pray that you don't get bumped up haha. You should be winning every 3.5 match in str8 sets and not giving up anymore than 5 games a match.

[SuperLotto]

When I say "stepped up" I mean my team was going to default. It was a 4.0 singles match and the lady had a decent record on 4.0 and 4.5. I am a 3.5 and have won my 4.0 doubles. I had never played singles before. I want to be bumped up because I want to play on a 4.0 team with my friends. Is it still early enough in the rating season for me to redeem myself in NTRP? I guess that's my real question.

[SuperLotto]

BTW...I did play 3.5 for the past 2 years and was winning 6-1, 6-3, 6-0. Stuff like that. It was boring. I think I may have lost 2 3.5 doubles match in the past 2 years. That's another reason why I feel I should be playing 4.0.

[Xisbum]

Originally Posted by SuperLotto

When I say "stepped up" I mean my team was going to default. It was a 4.0 singles match and the lady had a decent record on 4.0 and 4.5. I am a 3.5 and have won my 4.0 doubles. I had never played singles before. I want to be bumped up because I want to play on a 4.0 team with my friends. Is it still early enough in the rating season for me to redeem myself in NTRP? I guess that's my real question.

I believe you can play 4.0 without being rated at 4.0. Go for it if your friends don't mind and that's what you really want to play.

[SuperLotto]

BTW...I did play 3.5 for the past 2 years and was winning 6-1, 6-3, 6-0. Stuff like that. It was boring. I think I may have lost 2 3.5 doubles match in the past 2 years. That's another reason why I feel I should be playing 4.0.

[jk175d]

Originally Posted by SuperLotto

BTW...I did play 3.5 for the past 2 years and was winning 6-1, 6-3, 6-0. Stuff like that. It was boring. I think I may have lost 2 3.5 doubles match in the past 2 years. That's another reason why I feel I should be playing 4.0.

then just play 4.0. You don't have to be bumped to play up one level.

[ian2]

Originally Posted by jk175d

then just play 4.0. You don't have to be bumped to play up one level.

This. But from a purely "technical" point of view, the very first reply was correct: the "computer" will not count the 6-0 6-0 score. It's like that match never happened . You lucked out indeed, courtesy of some lazy (or misguided) NTRP algorithm programming.

Have you been able to get on the scoreboard, a 6-0 6-1 loss might have substantially lowered your dynamic NTRP rating in the short term. Or it might have not: it all depends on your and your opponent's DNTRP prior to the match. For example, if yours war 3.49 (high 3.5) and hers 3.99 (high 4.0), 6-0 6-1 score would be exactly what the "computer" expects, and neither your NTRP or hers would have changed. If you were 3.25 (mid-3.5) and she 3.99, 6-0 6-1 loss would likely raise your NTRP and lower hers... makes perfect sense, eh?

The above is a very simplistic explanation. There are other factors involved, i.e. averaging of the last four match results, whether one of the opponents was self-rated, whether it was a play-off match (districts, etc.)...

Disclaimer: NTRP algorithm is a closely guarded secret, and so are the individual DNTRP ratings. All that we know about it is based on the publicly available info that is intentionally vague, and on various leaks and extrapolation. I'm sure there are a couple of people on this board who are privy to "the secret" but they ain't talking.

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by SuperLotto

When I say "stepped up" I mean my team was going to default. It was a 4.0 singles match and the lady had a decent record on 4.0 and 4.5. I am a 3.5 and have won my 4.0 doubles. I had never played singles before. I want to be bumped up because I want to play on a 4.0 team with my friends. Is it still early enough in the rating season for me to redeem myself in NTRP? I guess that's my real question.

Wait, I'm confused. You just said it was a 4.0 match, so aren't you already on the 4.0 team?

[SuperLotto]

I am a 3.5 player playing on a 4.0 team. Sorry for the confusion. I want to get officially bumped up. It's a goal of mine. I am a strong 3.5. Believe me, they wouldn't let me play if I was a low 3.5. I am one of 2 3.5 players on a 4.0 team. Just want to be a "real 4.0".

people actually pay the USTA money to take double bagels like this? sorry you probably met when of the many many 4.5 ringers who dropped down to play 4.0. that drop is probably the easiest one to "fake".

[SuperLotto]

My opponent had been winning 4.5 doubles matches so she probably had a pretty high NTRP. Does the NTRP system differentiate between singles and doubles matches? Or do they get the same weight?

[J_R_B]

Originally Posted by SuperLotto

My opponent had been winning 4.5 doubles matches so she probably had a pretty high NTRP. Does the NTRP system differentiate between singles and doubles matches? Or do they get the same weight?

The formula is applied slightly differently in doubles because you have 4 people to deal with instead of 2, but there is not a separate rating for doubles. You have one rating that is used in both the singles and doubles algorithms.

[cknobman]

Originally Posted by SuperLotto

I am a 3.5 player playing on a 4.0 team. Sorry for the confusion. I want to get officially bumped up. It's a goal of mine. I am a strong 3.5. Believe me, they wouldn't let me play if I was a low 3.5. I am one of 2 3.5 players on a 4.0 team. Just want to be a "real 4.0".

So you don't need to do anything other than win your league matches. The bump will occur once you have accumulated enough rating points to warrant it. The way to accumulate rating points is to win matches.

If your worried about about league play not being enough then enter some 4.0 singles tournaments. Make some wins there and you will get bumped.