How to learn the straight arm forehand?

[aimr75]

Verdasco is or is close to SW too

[TheCheese]

I think it's important if you go look at tricky's posts that you don't get too caught up in mentally trying to force your arm to do all these technically complex sounding maneuvers.

If you're doing it correctly, you should not be forcing your arm to pronate or straighten.

Also, this might help: Taken from http://blog.tennisspeed.com/2012/01/...nd-part-4.html

[Migelowsky]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

I don't usually hit a straight arm fh. But, I do sometimes unintentionally straighten my arm when I make contact a bit further in front and away than usual.

That´s it. After watching videos of myself I noticed that I was hitting a bit close to my body, close to the side and not so far in front , a bit late.
After correcting my contact point I was hitting with a straight arm without doing it on purpose .

[DeShaun]

I do not hit straight arm forehands in matches and I no longer attempt to hit them practice, but when I was practicing this stroke, as a possible addition to my repertoire, something that I did that coincided often with my hitting a very nice straight arm forehand was to lead with my chest.
It was almost as if my chest was doing all of the targeting.

[formula16]

thanks everyone, not really sure what pronation means but i have a eastern/semi western forehand grip, when i take it back, the face of the racquet which i am using to hit the ball faces the side fence/back. Does that mean i pronate?

[TheCheese]

Originally Posted by formula16

thanks everyone, not really sure what pronation means but i have a eastern/semi western forehand grip, when i take it back, the face of the racquet which i am using to hit the ball faces the side fence/back. Does that mean i pronate?

Pronation is like what you do on your serve.

[Magnetite]

You just have to translate all the energy from your legs and trunk, through your shoulder and up your arm into the racket.

If you do that with a modern grip, you'll have a straight arm on contact.

With a more conventional grip, it's not going to happen in the same way.

[1HBH Rocks]

Originally Posted by BevelDevil

Ultimately, I think it comes down to how much of a risk OP is willing to take and how much time he's willing to dedicate.

A full Federer stroke has more potential, however getting near that potential will be further in the future (measured in court time), and may never come at all if he doesn't get a feel for it. Only the OP can decide whether this is a risk and commitment worth taking. Although he seems to be a die-hard Fed fan, so I'd guess he'll jump straight into the Fed forehand. But even if this is the case, I think a reasonable way to arrive at the Fed forehand is via Delpo's.

Federer's forehand isn't the only example of forehand which achieves pronation at the end of the take back. Djokovic, Murray, Nadal, Berdych, Cilic, Safin all do it and they do not all swing with a straight arm, if you notice.

And, seriously, it's more complicated? I told you, you can do like these guys above and ensure the most consistent way you can find to achieve great contact at high speed or, like most people, you supinate. You will do one of the three methods -- I don't know about the third, but I surely know the first one (pronation) is correlated to higher swinging speed and spin production on average. Of course, some compensate the movement and hit more flat with it (Cilic and Berdych), but that's not the point.

Your arm, you see, will supinate in the forward swing. If you don't pronate, you risk opening your racket face too early and players who do that are force to fool around with their racket face to keep it closed at contact. That's a mess and that's complicated to do -- yet most players play this way.

[1HBH Rocks]

1.Indeed, Del Potro isn't the best model you can find.

2.Some think about patting the dog, but I don't really care the wording. I am talking about what happens with their forearm as they are about to swing, at the very end of their take back.

3.I know, it's a weird swing. That's why the researcher had put him in a third kind alongside of Agassi. I didn't pay attention to exactly what he was doing; I just know he's not in the optimally efficient kind given the data he piled and that's enough.

4.The tweaks I am talking about involve simple body position at given moment of the stroke. You take an average stroke and you improve it by adding in a few details -- pronation at the end of the take is one; ulnar deviation, wrist flexion and a supine hand position nearby contact that is reversed to a prone position and radial deviation after contact is a second one (that's what people call the wrist snap). Both aren't very hard to implement... most of the time, you need to add them into the movement; the high performance coach who wrote about it and studied it says most of his students don't need to get rid of details that should be out of the swing unlike what most people might think. He says they needed things to be added. The two above details are things to be added.

5.As for your Tsonga, here he is:

He does it too. It's more his elbow and forearm you should look at than his racket as his body position, the ball will make contact with and his intention might change how far the racket faces the ground. If the elbow tries to show its face, there's pronation, even if only mild.

6.I don't think we should use any movement besides our own, but you are being consequent with the above: I said we need to add stuff to make good forehands turn into great forehands... you do need to work on big movements before working on smaller ones and it's indeed a fast and easy change if you know how to teach it right.

7. The same coach resumed what details the best forehands get right that amateurs can learn without being exceptionally gifted themselves.

Originally Posted by SpeedMaster(Blog.Tennisspeed.com)

1) You need to pronate the elbow of your hitting arm before starting the forward swing – to the same extent as the players pictured earlier—to compensate for the natural supination – or opening of the hand causing the palm to face skyward – of the racquet elbow /hand to ensure that you can deliver the racquet face in a closed position – i.e. racquet tilted forward—at impact.
2) You can start to experiment with how steep or how shallow your upward swing path affects the resulting shot. The simplest way to do this is to start experimenting with how far below the impact point you start your forward swing. You might also experiment with the height at which your racquet hand finishes after impact. You may find that you produce more topspin when you shallow out your overall swing path and use a finish lower versus swinging more steeply upwards and finishing high – when the racquet hand finishes up at head-height or higher. And, you should note that this concept effectively runs counter to the “how topspin is produced” paradigm ingrained into the “stroke knowledge” of most tennis players and coaches possess.
3) You need to learn when and how to pronate your hand – or “re-pronate” is the more appropriate description—as you accelerate your racquet through the impact zone. Elbow Pronation in the impact zone is how you can support, stabilize and maintain the forward tilt of the racquet face at impact, especially when impact is made off-center. Elbow Pronation of the racquet arm at FFM and just prior to impact creates maximum racquet speed and acceleration to maximize energy transfer to the ball. In other words, Elbow Pronation plays a crucial role in maximizing both spin production and ball speed.

8. When I explained that it's easier to achieve consistent contact, I meant that your racket will behave this way and open as you swing. If you don't get into this position, you make your life harder for no reason.



In his experience, players who have implemented these advices -- and we're talking about ranked juniors, competitive players -- have seen their top spin production increase by as much as 40% on average and some of the flat hitters have nearly doubled it.

[BevelDevil]

Originally Posted by 1HBH Rocks

....

You've cherry-picked for photos of Tsonga hitting very specific shots.


Here are some other pictures where he is clearly not turning his palm down. Also, note that his racket head has not dropped yet, thus he hasn't begun his forward swing yet:








Tsonga slow motion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CrWFui1jW4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VVCiegIGQY



Based on this video, Agassi normally doesn't turn his palm down either (unless the ball is low, perhaps).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXWks8yvRJQ

[Rickson]

I suppose if you need to reach for it, that's fine, but why would you want a straight armed forehand just for a basic forehand?

[guitarplayer]

Originally Posted by Rickson

I suppose if you need to reach for it, that's fine, but why would you want a straight armed forehand just for a basic forehand?

This is what I was thinking. Sounds like it would hurt!

[aimr75]

Originally Posted by guitarplayer

This is what I was thinking. Sounds like it would hurt!

it doesnt hurt.. usually there is a slight bend anyway. Guys like Nadal, Verdasco, Fed wouldnt be doing it if it was hurting them

[connico]

Originally Posted by Rickson

I suppose if you need to reach for it, that's fine, but why would you want a straight armed forehand just for a basic forehand?

Consistency; Its much easier for kids early on to use straight arm as its easier for the muscle to remember. Its actually easier to replicate and achieve consistency.

From a biomechanic point of view, the longer the extension the more power. Would you rather get hit with a short stick or a long stick? kenetic energy is transfered better if the arm is at full extension at contact.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by connico

Consistency; Its much easier for kids early on to use straight arm as its easier for the muscle to remember. Its actually easier to replicate and achieve consistency.

a straight arm requires a higher level of control and timing than a bent arm and also you need better footwork for a straight arm. and by accounts of ppl i know and from what i read here on tt often a straight arm is harder to learn and harder to achieve consistency with than a bent arm. so i disagree.

Would you rather get hit with a short stick or a long stick?

Would you have more success trying to precisely hit a small, fast moving object moving towards you and curving with a short stick or a long stick?

[connico]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

a straight arm requires a higher level of control and timing than a bent arm and also you need better footwork for a straight arm. and by accounts of ppl i know and from what i read here on tt often a straight arm is harder to learn and harder to achieve consistency with than a bent arm. so i disagree.



Would you have more success trying to precisely hit a small, fast moving object moving towards you and curving with a short stick or a long stick?

You can disagree thats not and issue. But I don't understand what your trying to say? Everyone should do bent arm because they shouldn't work on their foot work, use a less extension and not try to achieve maximum power?

The reason why I say bent arm is more consistent is because it doesnt vary. A bent arm can very in angle, it can vary during the stroke. Creating inconsistency. So you have to think about swing path and bentness of the arm. A straight arm varies very little.

[TheCheese]

Imo, the straight arm actually has more room for adjustment. You aren't forced to hit with a fully straight arm on every shot. If your footwork is a little off or the ball takes a weird bounce, you can naturally change into a more bent position. You see Fed do this sometimes.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by connico

You can disagree thats not and issue. But I don't understand what your trying to say? Everyone should do bent arm because they shouldn't work on their foot work, use a less extension and not try to achieve maximum power?

I said what i'm trying to say clearly in my last post. no need to try to blow it out of proportion or twist it around to make it sound 'controversial' or 'combative' because someone disagrees with you.

The reason why I say bent arm is more consistent is because it doesnt vary. A bent arm can very in angle, it can vary during the stroke. Creating inconsistency. So you have to think about swing path and bentness of the arm. A straight arm varies very little.

'Consistent' means to be able to hit a ball with a good amount of control and placement repeatedly. To do that requires adjustments and that's why a bent arm is easier to achieve consistency with... because you can vary it. if you footwork is off you can compensate easier. if the ball takes a funny hop you can adjust easier. Also it's easier to judge a ball and strike it when it's closer to your body. with a straight arm the contact point is quite a bit further away from the body than bent arm.

Also, i'm guessing you made up the part about 'kids being able to learn a straight arm easier' part. Have you ever seen any studies or experts stating as such? I haven't. If you have then i concede on that part.

If a straight arm was easier to learn, easier to achieve consistency with etc etc don't you think most ppl would be playing with a straight arm? I don't know the exact percentages but i can safely say straight arm players are well below 50%.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by TheCheese

Imo, the straight arm actually has more room for adjustment. You aren't forced to hit with a fully straight arm on every shot. If your footwork is a little off or the ball takes a weird bounce, you can naturally change into a more bent position. You see Fed do this sometimes.

imo it doesn't. With a bent arm you can extend or shorten the arm. With a straight arm you can only change it into a bent arm (which is no longer straight in a lot of cases) (giving a little room for interpretation of straight arm). with a straight arm if your footwork isnt great or the ball takes an unexpected bounce that puts the ball further away from you can't make the straight arm straighter. but with bent arm you are closer to the ball and can extend if need be.

[connico]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

Snip

To remain consistent and to learn is to do things repetively. Adjusting on the fly to compensate is a bad thing.. you know that right?

So whether you hit with bent arm or a straight arm you still need to work on your foot work and should not be adjusting your arm position on the fly.

Unless your a professional tennis player or a high level tennis player, adjusting on the fly can only lead to disaster.