Rivalries at all 4 Slams

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Xavier G

Didn't Lendl beat McEnroe in the AO 89?.

Yes, in the quarter finals. Lendl won 7-6, 6-2, 7-6.

McEnroe's last win over Lendl was just after this, a 6-7, 7-6, 6-2, 7-5 victory in the semi finals of the 1989 WCT Dallas event.

[Xavier G]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Yes, in the quarter finals. Lendl won 7-6, 6-2, 7-6.

McEnroe's last win over Lendl was just after this, a 6-7, 7-6, 6-2, 7-5 victory in the semi finals of the 1989 WCT Dallas event.

Thanks. I was sure Lendl had beaten Mac in Australia that year.1989 was quite a good year for McEnroe with some better showings like making the Wimbledon semi's and winning the WCT Finals beating Lendl along the way. I think John finished that year at no.4.

[Mustard]

Originally Posted by Xavier G

I think John finished that year at no.4.

He did, behind Lendl, Becker and Edberg. Number 4 was McEnroe's highest ranking after his 6 month sabbatical in 1986.

[krosero]

Originally Posted by Xavier G

I like the Mac-Wilander rivalry. Mats was really a great player for most of the 80's and gave John a few surprising defeats in my eyes like the AO semi final in 83 for instance. That was a good chance for Mac to win the Australian Open. The USO semi of 1985 was another classic which McEnroe just closed out, but it took a lot of him for the final.

McEnroe often seemed to have more trouble with Wilander than with Borg. Even in their first meeting, when Wilander was still only 18 and in some ways still a claycourter, McEnroe needed 6 hours to beat him in that Davis Cup match -- and that was on indoor carpet.

I think two things helped Wilander. He stood in closer to the baseline than Borg; and he showed McEnroe fewer second serves than Borg did. He could do that because he didn't do as much with the first serve, tending to spin it in; but that meant that McEnroe had fewer chances to attack a second ball and get into net.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by Xavier G

Thanks. I was sure Lendl had beaten Mac in Australia that year.1989 was quite a good year for McEnroe with some better showings like making the Wimbledon semi's and winning the WCT Finals beating Lendl along the way. I think John finished that year at no.4.

He also reached the Masters semifinals, along Lendl, Becker and Edberg.One of the best all time draw at an indoor event.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by krosero

McEnroe often seemed to have more trouble with Wilander than with Borg. Even in their first meeting, when Wilander was still only 18 and in some ways still a claycourter, McEnroe needed 6 hours to beat him in that Davis Cup match -- and that was on indoor carpet.

I think two things helped Wilander. He stood in closer to the baseline than Borg; and he showed McEnroe fewer second serves than Borg did. He could do that because he didn't do as much with the first serve, tending to spin it in; but that meant that McEnroe had fewer chances to attack a second ball and get into net.

Wilander was also steadier at the net than Borg, even if his serve was weaker.

[Xavier G]

Originally Posted by krosero

McEnroe often seemed to have more trouble with Wilander than with Borg. Even in their first meeting, when Wilander was still only 18 and in some ways still a claycourter, McEnroe needed 6 hours to beat him in that Davis Cup match -- and that was on indoor carpet.

I think two things helped Wilander. He stood in closer to the baseline than Borg; and he showed McEnroe fewer second serves than Borg did. He could do that because he didn't do as much with the first serve, tending to spin it in; but that meant that McEnroe had fewer chances to attack a second ball and get into net.

Yes, it was clear Mats was going to be a player to be reckoned with after that Davis Cup encounter added to him winning the French at just 17.
Borg often stood way back against John and I think Mats will have had a good look at Mac's game.

[Xavier G]

Originally Posted by kiki

He also reached the Masters semifinals, along Lendl, Becker and Edberg.One of the best all time draw at an indoor event.

Yes, he did. Great line-up!

[krosero]

Originally Posted by kiki

Wilander was also steadier at the net than Borg, even if his serve was weaker.

Even in St. Louis in '82, Drysdale was saying that Wilander already was volleying better than Borg. It's funny how tennis writers and commentators said, year after year, right up to '88, that Wilander had recently decided to add a volley to his game. In '82 his volley already looked like it did in later years, at least technically.

Of course his net game did mature over the years, because it's one thing to know how to volley, another to come in consistently over the course of a match against someone like Lendl. That's what Mats got better at over the years. His net approaches, roughly speaking, were one reason he beat Lendl at the '83 AO; a key factor in his win over Lendl at RG in '85; and practically the entire cause of his victory over Lendl at Flushing in '88.

Borg never came in at RG the way Wilander did in that '85 final, and unfortunately he never did so at Flushing against Mac. On the other hand, Borg successfully SV'd, often on 2nd serve, at Wimbledon over a six-year period, something which Wilander never pulled off successfully despite attacking the net pretty well on Australian grass.

Originally Posted by Xavier G

Borg often stood way back against John and I think Mats will have had a good look at Mac's game.

On this board when we got a look at Borg's win over Mac in the autumn of '82, at AKAI, we speculated that Borg may actually have observed Wilander's success against McEnroe and taken a page from it. Pure speculation but possible.

Originally Posted by kiki

He also reached the Masters semifinals, along Lendl, Becker and Edberg.One of the best all time draw at an indoor event.

One point from that event: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXitxEkVz3Y

[krosero]

Nadal and Djokovic have now met in the finals of all four of the Grand Slam events, a first among the men.

Laver and Emerson met in the finals everywhere but Wimbledon
Laver and Fraser met in the finals everywhere but RG
Stolle and Emerson met in the finals everywhere but RG
Nadal and Federer have met in the finals everywhere but USO


The women who have met in all 4 finals:

Court and Bueno
Evert and Navratilova
Graf and Sanchez Vicario
Graf and Seles
Venus and Serena

[ruerooo]

Originally Posted by krosero

Nadal and Federer have met in the finals everywhere but USO

I can't tell you how much it hurt my feelings when Roger didn't make that final.
I was mad at him till the WTF.

(And yes, I was sad every year before that when Roger made the final and Rafa didn't.)

I mean, I guess it's okay now that I could see a FEDAL semi here in the States but before that to see a FEDAL match I'd have to travel to Europe?
And they can't get it together to play in my hometown?

[BrooklynNY]

Originally Posted by krosero

Nadal and Djokovic have now met in the finals of all four of the Grand Slam events, a first among the men.

Laver and Emerson met in the finals everywhere but Wimbledon
Laver and Fraser met in the finals everywhere but RG
Stolle and Emerson met in the finals everywhere but RG
Nadal and Federer have met in the finals everywhere but USO

Not sure if it was mentioned but Sampras and Agassi have also met in the finals everywhere but Roland Garros as well, I think may have only played in the Qtrs or 4th round

[1477aces]

Originally Posted by Mustard

I have another. Hewitt vs. Roddick. Hewitt has won 3 of their 5 slam meetings.

2001 French Open R32: Lleyton Hewitt def. Andy Roddick (6-7, 6-4, 2-2 ret.)
2001 US Open QF: Lleyton Hewitt def. Andy Roddick (6-7, 6-3, 6-4, 3-6, 6-4)
2005 Australian Open SF: Lleyton Hewitt def. Andy Roddick (3-6, 7-6, 7-6, 6-1)
2006 US Open QF: Andy Roddick def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-3, 7-5, 6-4)
2009 Wimbledon QF: Andy Roddick def. Lleyton Hewitt (6-3, 6-7, 7-6, 4-6, 6-4)

Now 4 out of 6. AO2012

[krosero]

Originally Posted by BrooklynNY

Not sure if it was mentioned but Sampras and Agassi have also met in the finals everywhere but Roland Garros as well, I think may have only played in the Qtrs or 4th round

Not yet, thanks! They played in the quarters in '92.

[Moose Malloy]

Lendl & Wilander met in finals everywhere except Wimbledon

[kiki]

Originally Posted by krosero

Even in St. Louis in '82, Drysdale was saying that Wilander already was volleying better than Borg. It's funny how tennis writers and commentators said, year after year, right up to '88, that Wilander had recently decided to add a volley to his game. In '82 his volley already looked like it did in later years, at least technically.

Of course his net game did mature over the years, because it's one thing to know how to volley, another to come in consistently over the course of a match against someone like Lendl. That's what Mats got better at over the years. His net approaches, roughly speaking, were one reason he beat Lendl at the '83 AO; a key factor in his win over Lendl at RG in '85; and practically the entire cause of his victory over Lendl at Flushing in '88.

Borg never came in at RG the way Wilander did in that '85 final, and unfortunately he never did so at Flushing against Mac. On the other hand, Borg successfully SV'd, often on 2nd serve, at Wimbledon over a six-year period, something which Wilander never pulled off successfully despite attacking the net pretty well on Australian grass.

On this board when we got a look at Borg's win over Mac in the autumn of '82, at AKAI, we speculated that Borg may actually have observed Wilander's success against McEnroe and taken a page from it. Pure speculation but possible.

One point from that event: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXitxEkVz3Y

I agree with Wilander developing a solid and accurate apprach game which enhanced his pretty good ( not great anyhow) volley.

One thing about Mats is that he never looked like doing a big effort, he was very fluent or, at least, he seems to me the most fluent top spin player that I can remember.I think it is due to his fantastic footwork, he was not ultrafast but had great anticipation and was very cool and calm.

[kiki]

Borg and Gerulatis met everywhere except at the AO ( which they seldom played, anyway).They played a Wimbledon semi and a Wimbledon 4 th round, a US Open semi, a Masters final, a WCT semifinal, a FO semifinal and a FO final...

Of course, Borg always won, although many of those were clsoe and competitive matches.

Connors and Mac met everywhere except...AO...

[krosero]

Federer and Djokovic have now met in all 4 places. Federer and Murray have met everywhere but RG.