Lance - will they leave him alone?

[FastFreddy]

Lance Is A Dope!!

[vive le beau jeu !]

Originally Posted by fundrazer

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bass...obe-is-overdue

The incident with Simeoni in particular disgusts me. That's when I got an idea of the real Lance.

how can you not love this charming doped bully ?

[dParis]

Originally Posted by fundrazer

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bass...obe-is-overdue

The incident with Simeoni in particular disgusts me. That's when I got an idea of the real Lance.

I read the article. Are you referring to a deeper back-story not discussed in the article? Armstrong was talking trash to a guy who couldn't whip him on the road so he tried to take care of him in the courts. None of these guys are angels, so I don't find anything "particularly disgusting" about Armstrong's actions.

[fundrazer]

What's not to understand?

"Filippo Simeoni was involved in his own notorious spat with Armstrong at the 2004 Tour de France. Two years earlier, Simeoni had testified before an Italian magistrate that doctor Michele Ferrari had advised him to use EPO and testosterone in 1997, a claim that prompted Armstrong to brand Simeoni an “absolute liar” in an interview with Le Monde in 2003. The following year at the Tour, Armstrong thwarted Simeoni’s breakaway attempts and allegedly threatened to “destroy” the Italian in a mid-race exchange on stage 18."

Lance purposely ruined Simeoni's chances at a stage victory out of the breakaway. Lance had no business going into the break other than to force the peleton to pull back Simeoni.

[Bobby Jr]

Originally Posted by sureshs

..the double jeopardy clause in the constitution only pertains to criminal prosecutions and this seems to violate the spirit of it, even if it is legal.

Regardless, it only applies to cases which were pursued, not just investigations.

There is no "spirit of double jeopardy" - it's clear what is and isn't covered. Regardless, ever sport is well within its rights to lay down the criteria by which people are allowed to compete. If they choose not to they can be taken to task over it regardless of whatever criminal activities have or haven't occurred (or can/can't be proven). Criminal statute of limitations are irrelevant also with regards to a sporting body's own set of rules.

[dParis]

Originally Posted by fundrazer

What's not to understand?

"Filippo Simeoni was involved in his own notorious spat with Armstrong at the 2004 Tour de France. Two years earlier, Simeoni had testified before an Italian magistrate that doctor Michele Ferrari had advised him to use EPO and testosterone in 1997, a claim that prompted Armstrong to brand Simeoni an “absolute liar” in an interview with Le Monde in 2003. The following year at the Tour, Armstrong thwarted Simeoni’s breakaway attempts and allegedly threatened to “destroy” the Italian in a mid-race exchange on stage 18."

Lance purposely ruined Simeoni's chances at a stage victory out of the breakaway. Lance had no business going into the break other than to force the peleton to pull back Simeoni.

I'm looking at this through the perspective that we are talking about professional cyclists and not Boy Scouts. It appears this proven doper, Simeoni, had not won a single Tour de France stage prior to, or since, the 2004 Tour incident. Who does he blame for that? Anyhow, what obligation does Armstrong have to let this guy win a stage, especially since there were issues between the two? I still don't see what is "particularly disgusting" about what Armstrong did but then again, I'm not a cycling enthusiast, so I'll take your word for it.

[Bartelby]

Bodies usually don't pursue cases for which there is no evidence.

[Andreas1965]

Originally Posted by dParis

I'm looking at this through the perspective that we are talking about professional cyclists and not Boy Scouts. It appears this proven doper, Simeoni, had not won a single Tour de France stage prior to, or since, the 2004 Tour incident. Who does he blame for that? Anyhow, what obligation does Armstrong have to let this guy win a stage, especially since there were issues between the two? I still don't see what is "particularly disgusting" about what Armstrong did but then again, I'm not a cycling enthusiast, so I'll take your word for it.

Cycling is a sport with tradition. One thing common among riders is that the leader of a stage race NEVER should go for a stage win if there are other, minor riders to win the stage. The yellow jersey (at TDF) shouldn't hunt down escapees. It's simply a no-go.
Look at other great champions, like Indurain or Lemond. They just never did such things.
Armstrong wasn't a patron to the Tour, he was a bully.
His behaviour during those TDF-wins might now result in merciless actions from the press and all the others.

[dParis]

Originally Posted by Andreas1965

Cycling is a sport with tradition. One thing common among riders is that the leader of a stage race NEVER should go for a stage win if there are other, minor riders to win the stage. The yellow jersey (at TDF) shouldn't hunt down escapees. It's simply a no-go.
Look at other great champions, like Indurain or Lemond. They just never did such things.
Armstrong wasn't a patron to the Tour, he was a bully.
His behaviour during those TDF-wins might now result in merciless actions from the press and all the others.

Thanks. I suspected Armstrong's actions ran afoul of TdF custom. It's not like the action was completely unprovoked, though. Also, in a vengeful act, Simeoni attempted (unsuccessfully) to upstage Armstrong on the final, ceremonial stage of the TdF.

[Andreas1965]

Originally Posted by dParis

Thanks. I suspected Armstrong's actions ran afoul of TdF custom. It's not like the action was completely unprovoked, though. Also, in a vengeful act, Simeoni attempted (unsuccessfully) to upstage Armstrong on the final, ceremonial stage of the TdF.

Not only TdF custom. It's the same at all stage races.
For example, 2 riders successfully escape, one of them could take the lead. So it is good custom that the other rider will win the stage, so that both have their share. One gets the leader's jersey, the other one the stage win. So it was for more than 100 years, and I hope it'll stay like that another century.

Whenever a rider doesn't follow these "rules", he can be sure that he'll not make it for "employee of the month"

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Bobby Jr

Regardless, it only applies to cases which were pursued, not just investigations.

There is no "spirit of double jeopardy" - it's clear what is and isn't covered. Regardless, ever sport is well within its rights to lay down the criteria by which people are allowed to compete. If they choose not to they can be taken to task over it regardless of whatever criminal activities have or haven't occurred (or can/can't be proven). Criminal statute of limitations are irrelevant also with regards to a sporting body's own set of rules.

But the sports stuff eventually leads to a criminal case. That is the issue. I don't see why violations in sports should lead to criminal cases.

[cjj14u]

Having worked for Trek years ago I had the opportunity to meet him many times....

I can tell you unequivocally that he is the most arrogant jack$%# you would ever want to meet....

I know first hand that both Trek and Nike spent $$$$$$$$ to hire "people skills coaches" and PR people to improve Lance's relations and perception with the public....

I support his cancer awareness efforts but personally I hope the
party is finally over" and that he is brought down HARD....

I better run and hide now because I am sure that Lance's team of thug lawyers will hunt me down and threaten to sue me for slander and libel....LOL...

[Bobby Jr]

Originally Posted by sureshs

But the sports stuff eventually leads to a criminal case. That is the issue. I don't see why violations in sports should lead to criminal cases.

The sports stuff is about the athlete and their competing outside the sporting body's rules. The following criminal cases are generally about the company or people who facilitated it and broke drugs laws and/or committed forms of fraud.

[DavaiMarat]

Who cares? Lance is a dick. The whole sport is full of dopers. It seems to me they should just get robots to ride the bikes and the one with the best power to fuel ratio would win. I'd watch that.

Actually if they could push each other off the bikes roller derby style I'd watch that too. Just cancel the whole sport already. I ride my bike to work. It's awesome.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Bobby Jr

The sports stuff is about the athlete and their competing outside the sporting body's rules. The following criminal cases are generally about the company or people who facilitated it and broke drugs laws and/or committed forms of fraud.

Well, then it is no wonder Lance is defensive. Who wants to get caught in a criminal affair?