Let's disspel the myth that Federer thrived against a "weak field"

[DRII]

Originally Posted by TopFH

Why, because he does not agree with you? He's correct by saying the finalists of Federer's slams were the best at that time, if not they could not have reached the final. Just like Rafa was the best at the 2010 USO or Federer was the best at the 2009 RG. Both beat the second best player of the tournament. Not the 2nd ranked, but the second best at that particular tournament, the one who rose to the challenge of reaching a Grand Slam final. Not Rafa's nor Roger's fault the finalist was not who you wanted to see. Case in point, both the slams I mentioned had no #1 or #2 finalists. The champions were the #1 and #2. In 2009, #2 Federer beat Soderling, who had just beaten #1 Nadal. In 2010, #1 Nadal beat Djokovic, who had just beaten #2 Federer. Does this diminish their slams? Of course not.

On paper, no it does not. However, when a broader, more discerning discussion is had with qualitative comparisons and contrasts -- of course it can and often does!

[The_Order]

Originally Posted by abmk

what a load of cr*p..

del potro FO 2009 >>>>>>>>>>>>> djoker USO 2010 , djoker FO 2012

roddick wimbledon 2009 >>>>>>>>> djoker USO 2010 , djoker FO 2012

Lol you're right Del Po was better than Djoker 2010... until he gassed out and was physically DONE like a dinner. It was so visible that JMDP barely had anything left and Fed was playing poorly enough to allow him chances. I'd say RG 09 along with '12 are his worst RG performances since 04. He even struggled past a what 31? yr old Haas.

Delpo was not playing at a higher level than Novak this year, that's just complete crap from your part. It seems that if Nadal beats Novak, it's because he has played crap yeah? The only reason he pushed Fed to 5 sets was because Fed played well below his best too.

Keep sooking but everyone knows for a FACT now that Fed has only beat the #1 or #2 (if you're ranked #1 you cannot face #1 lol) ranked player in 4 slams in his entire career.

Originally Posted by abmk

Quality of play over reputations ........

Sorry, I didn't realise one slam wonders were capable of more quality play than guys like Fed, Rafa and Novak. I suppose Rafa needs to beat a few more one slam wonders in order to prove himself yeah? Please you sound so ridiculous just stop for your sake.

Originally Posted by abmk

lol, how could federer beat the #1, #2 players that consistently, when he was the #1 player at his prime and the no #2 (nadal ) player was AWOL at the final stages of the HC slams ? ( he did beat nadal at wimbledon )

Oh so it's Rafa's fault that Fed couldn't beat the #2 player because the very early 20's Rafa's game wasn't up to scratch to make it to HC finals. LOL Fed is LUCKY Rafa didn't have the game back then to make it to HC finals because unfortunately for Fed, Rafa whipped his butt in HC finals even from age 18.

Fed also had 3 chances to beat Rafa while he was at his peak at RG and couldn't get the job done. In fact not really close. Yet Rafa WAS able to knock Fed off his perch while still in his prime at his best slam WIM in 08 and even got really close in 07. What's your grand explanation for Fed's failure to accomlish this?

Also, FYI Rafa made it to a HC slam final in 2009 age 22 against Fed and beat him and before you start with your "Oh Fed was past his prime" crap, he made ALL 4 SLAM FINALS in 2009. Sorry but you don't do that past your prime especially in what you yourself is calling a strong field (RG 09 and WIM 09).

Why isn't post-prime Fed making it to Rafa in the HC finals now? It seems a bit convenient that he would lose to Novak after having MP 2 years in a row, I mean you seem content to blame pre-prime Rafa for not making HC finals, but I don't see you blaming post-prime Fed for not making it. But it's ok we all know ****s such as yourself have double standards for the guy.

What makes it even more funny is you use a mid 30's Agassi as an example of an extremely tough opponent Fed had to deal with but beating an early 30's Fed doesn't count because "he's past his prime" LOL Double standards.

Originally Posted by abmk

baggy and gonzo played MUCH better than soderling in FO 2010 final or berdych in wim 2010 final

See now it's quite obvious that you have a Fed poster on your bedroom cieling and dream about him all night long. Baggy was MUCH better than Sod and Berdych? For what the first 2 sets until he choked the second set? He got bagelled in the third and lost the 4th 6-2 . That means he won a total of JUST TWO GAMES after having the chance to serve for the 2nd set and choking, and you want to justify that as a tough final opponent? GTFO LOL.

Gonzo was also pretty average after the first set. It's not really much to justify that Fed had it tough, was it tougher than Rafa's RG and WIM 2010? Well who cares seriously we're comparing crap finals performances here on both sides. I've already stated on 2 occasions but since you can't read I'll say it again, RG and WIM 2010 were EASY SLAM WINS for RAFA. However, they are the ONLY 2 really easy slams he picked up, Mr. Fed otoh has picked up quite a few more. I suppose you're going to say Phillipoussis was tough too lol.

Originally Posted by abmk

2004 AO - federer beat hewitt, nalbandian, ferrero and safin in a row. Are you gonna cry because he didn't beat #1, roddick ? LOL !

Ferrero? lol coming off his loss to CHRIS GUCCIONE in Sydney? The guy who beat a bunch of clowns to make it to that semi?

Safin was clearly gassed out he played what about 3 5 setters before that final, 2 of which coming in the QF and SF stages.

Hewitt was coming off a poor 2003 where his ranking dropped coinsiderably and didn't recapture his form until later in the year. I sooo wish Rafa was able to get those first 2 TBs against Hewitt the round before, he could've gone on with it and faced Fed in the 4th rd. THAT would've been interesting!

So who's his tough opponent? an 8th ranked Nalbandian who played to his ranking. WOW. Much tougher than beating Novak in 2010 USO

Originally Posted by abmk

2004 USO - he beat agassi and hewitt, the best HC players at that time , roddick was eliminated in the QF by big hitting JJ

but but but Agassi was past his prime, so it doesn't count right? Lol he was 34.5 years old and still pushed Fed to 5 sets imagine what would've happened if he had to face Rafa or Novak, not a chance in hell he would've beat them.

And here we go this is amazing, Hewitt who got bagelled in 2/3 sets in the final and you talk about quality play lol you're making a complete fool of yourself and contradicting yourself so bad now LOL.

And how was Safin not the best HC player at the time, I mean he made the AO final which was the previous HC major? Oh that's right he lost in the FIRST ROUND. LOL only further highlights my previous points about how inconsistent he was.

Originally Posted by abmk

2005 USO - he beat nalbandian, agassi and hewitt, the best HC players at that time, the #2 player nadal of course was eliminated by blake

Oh how nice of you to bring up that a NINETEEN YEAR OLD Nadal lost to Blake. Here's one for you, a TWENTY ONE YEAR OLD Fed lost to Ancic in the first round at Wimbledon. Did that mean Fed was forever bound to suck at WIM? Obviously not, Nadal's game was only primed for clay at that stage, sure he was still capable of good HC results but not consistent enough and certianly not experienced enough to do it over 5 sets at the time. Your arguments are so weak this is FAR TOO EASY LOL.

And here we go with the Agassi crap again, this time he's 35.5 getting better with age yeah? Oh and Nalby was a TOUGH opponent wasn't he because Fed beat him. LOL you keep telling me about quality of PLAY so tell me how you classify someone winning only 7 games in a slam QF as quality play? Please tell me this, you say Berdych and Soderling played crap (which I agree with) and use that as a basis to discount Rafa's slam wins but when Nalby plays crap you conveniently ignore that fact and insert him as a tough opponent along with a guy on the brink of retirement who struggled to get to the final even though he was given a cake walk draw.

Originally Posted by abmk

2007 USO - he beat roddick, davydenko and djoker in a row, the best HC players at that time ...

Again with Davydenko LOL you must have mini posters of this guy too. Seriously and for the last time, DAVYDENKO WAS NEVER A SLAM THREAT. EVER. and NEVER WILL BE LOL. Then you use Novak as a tough opponent. LOL so he was tough in 07 final but not in 10 final. Double standards again. The 07 USO was Novak's first final and he choked on opportunities to win the first 2 sets because of this. Fed has capitalised on guys making their first final and getting nervous when in a chance to put some real SB pressure on him.

Originally Posted by abmk

2008 USO - he beat djoker and murray, the best HC players at that time ...

How were they the best HC players at the time? Rafa won Toronto and the Olympics leading into the USO. I think you enjoy making stuff up. Just because Murray beat him in that semi where Murray played really well and Rafa was below his best after playing so many more matches doesn't make him a better HC player at the time. Fed was lucky that Murray had the game at the time to take advantage of Rafa's fatigue and knock him out, just like he was lucky Soderling took Rafa out at 09RG.

Originally Posted by abmk

Should I go on ?

Nah, enough bs from you just save yourself from further embarrassment because it is sure to come with your gibberish.

Originally Posted by abmk

nadal is far far more luckier that the surfaces have been slowed down, otherwise he'd have at max have 2 slams outside of clay ...

Tennis evolves, the ATP obviously wanted something more for the fans than stupis serve fests so they slowed the surfaces to allow for more different styled players to face each other.

BTW the courts were slowed in 2001 or 2002 at WIM and Fed went out in the first round to Ancic, who coincidently played Rafa in the first round the very next year and LOST. I'd say the slower grass helped Fed's baseline game, if it was faster, there's no doubt Roddick's serve would've got him a win or two against Fed up there.

[merlinpinpin]

Originally Posted by DRII

On paper, no it does not. However, when a broader, more discerning discussion is had with qualitative comparisons and contrasts -- of course it can and often does!

Not with rational people, actually. Thankfully, we don't have that many here, or this thread wouldn't still be alive and kicking after all this time.

[abmk]

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

As usual you grossly exagerrated the truth and think speaking in hysteria strengthens your argument when it doesnt. Del Potro at the 2009 French was not that great. He was great for him considering he isnt a great clay courter to begin with, probably as well as he will ever play on clay. He struggled vs clay mug Tsonga, and his draw to the semis was a cakewalk.

delpo in that semi final was absolutely brilliant. He was hitting nearly as hard and with as much precision as soderling.

delpo struggled with tsonga ?

really, 6-1,6-7,6-1,6-4 ..... handing two breadsticks, losing one set in a TB is struggling ??? ha ha ....

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

He then wore himself out and lost to a pushing and tenative Federer who was playing mediocre until playing a great final at that years French. Djokovic has never lost to Del Potro, and I highly doubt he would lose to the 2009 French Open version of Del Potro at either the 2012 French or 2010 U.S Open either. The Del Potro of the 2009 French probably wouldnt have even won a set vs Nadal at this years French, no chance in hell he goes on an 8 game run at one point or goes to a almost a 4th set tiebreak, so already the idea he was way better than Djokovic at this years French is clearly false.

federer was playing well in patches until the final .... he played well vs haas in the last 2 sets ( of course haas' form had come down as well ), vs PHM in the last 3 sets, vs monfils and played decently vs delpo as well .....

delpo after come back , breadsticked nadal in davis cup on clay and was serving for the 5th set ..... nadal wasn't playing as well as he was in FO 2010, yes, but delpo wasn't playing as well as he was in FO 2009 ....

the idea that djoker 2012 FO final ( apart from that stretch of 8 games ) coming even close to how delpo was playing in 2009 semi is laughable ...

djoker was down 2 sets to love vs seppi and was down 4 MPs to tsonga at this year's FO .... yes, the same claycourt mug you referred to before ...

weren't you also yapping again and again about how delpo was a grasscourt mug, but didn't he give nadal one hell of a fight at wimby 2011 ?

duh !!!!

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi

Roddick played great at Wimbledon 2009 but still nearly went out to an old and injured Hewitt. He wasnt that much better, if at all, than Djokovic at the 2 slams you refer to. Djokovic wasnt playing that badly at those 2 slams, if he were he wouldnt have even been in the final and been competitive with a red hot Nadal.

hewitt was playing really well at that wimbledon because he finally was getting an injury free stretch ....

and yes, roddick 2009 wimbledon final was much better than djoker USO 2010 final or FO 2012 final , its a no contest frankly

USO 2010, he got lucky that federer was on an error-fest and even then he had to save MPs (granted that took courage ).... had a scare in 1R with troicki as well IIRC , going to 5 sets

FO 2012 , already mentioned above .....

[DRII]

Originally Posted by merlinpinpin

Not with rational people, actually. Thankfully, we don't have that many here, or this thread wouldn't still be alive and kicking after all this time.

Rational people

You and other Fedephants have no problem making qualitative judgements when it comes to Nadal or other players; yet dismiss any attempt to do so regarding Federer and his wins. Makes no sense!

[abmk]

Originally Posted by The_Order

Lol you're right Del Po was better than Djoker 2010... until he gassed out and was physically DONE like a dinner. It was so visible that JMDP barely had anything left and Fed was playing poorly enough to allow him chances. I'd say RG 09 along with '12 are his worst RG performances since 04. He even struggled past a what 31? yr old Haas.

Delpo was not playing at a higher level than Novak this year, that's just complete crap from your part. It seems that if Nadal beats Novak, it's because he has played crap yeah? The only reason he pushed Fed to 5 sets was because Fed played well below his best too.

Jeez, learn to read. I was talking about delpo @ FO 2009 and not at this year ......

Novak's form was wildly fluctuating this year. He was down 2 sets to love vs seppi and down 4 MPs to tsonga ..... he played well vs an error-prone federer in the semis and in that 8 game stretch in the finals that;s it ....Apart from that in the finals , his BH sucked outright , wasn't able to get a good first serve in when required .....

RG 08 and RG 12 were easily worse than RG 2009 as far as federer's form is concerned ...

Originally Posted by The_Order

Keep sooking but everyone knows for a FACT now that Fed has only beat the #1 or #2 (if you're ranked #1 you cannot face #1 lol) ranked player in 4 slams in his entire career.

I already debunked this cr*p ....Plus even though he didn't win it, fed also beat novak in FO 2011 ...

[abmk]

Originally Posted by The_Order

Oh so it's Rafa's fault that Fed couldn't beat the #2 player because the very early 20's Rafa's game wasn't up to scratch to make it to HC finals. LOL Fed is LUCKY Rafa didn't have the game back then to make it to HC finals because unfortunately for Fed, Rafa whipped his butt in HC finals even from age 18.

I was saying it isn't fed's fault that he couldn't beat the #2 player in slams, because the #2 player wasn't good enough to meet him there when he was at his peak, duh !!!!

[merlinpinpin]

Originally Posted by DRII

Rational people

You and other Fedephants have no problem making qualitative judgements when it comes to Nadal or other players; yet dismiss any attempt to do so regarding Federer and his wins. Makes no sense!

Oh, did I? Could you please get a quote?

[abmk]

Originally Posted by The_Order

Sorry, I didn't realise one slam wonders were capable of more quality play than guys like Fed, Rafa and Novak. I suppose Rafa needs to beat a few more one slam wonders in order to prove himself yeah? Please you sound so ridiculous just stop for your sake.

it depends on the form, clueless.

just because novak is a superior player to delpo and roddick, doesn't mean that when they are playing well, they can't play better than an average djoker ......

[The Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by abmk

it depends on the form, clueless.

just because novak is a superior player to delpo and roddick, doesn't mean that when they are playing well, they can't play better than an average djoker ......

So then Roddick played better than Nadal in 4 slam finals?

[TMF]

Originally Posted by DRII

Rational people

You and other Fedephants have no problem making qualitative judgements when it comes to Nadal or other players; yet dismiss any attempt to do so regarding Federer and his wins. Makes no sense!

Rational people would never say such thing like a healthy Haas is another Federer.

[NatF]

Originally Posted by The Dark Knight

So then Roddick played better than Nadal in 4 slam finals?

Strawman argument. But yes if Roddick made it through the draw and Nadal didn't then Roddick was playing better than Nadal. Nadal entered almost as many Grand Slam tournaments as Federer, if he couldn't even make it to the final then the chances are he wouldn't have been able to stop Federer anyway.

[The_Order]

Originally Posted by abmk

delpo in that semi final was absolutely brilliant. He was hitting nearly as hard and with as much precision as soderling.

delpo struggled with tsonga ?

really, 6-1,6-7,6-1,6-4 ..... handing two breadsticks, losing one set in a TB is struggling ??? ha ha ....

Delpo played well in RG09 but do not make him sound like he was playing at Rafa's level up there. Almost unbeatable and only Fed could stop him. Seriously Fed was playing crap at RG09 by his standards and Delpo ran out of gas after the third set. Fed breadsticked him and wasn't playing really well after he got up a break in the fifth which is why Delpo was able to make a bit of a late charge, but once Fed was in danger all he had to do was turn it up a bit and Del Po couldn't go with him.

Originally Posted by abmk

federer was playing well in patches until the final .... he played well vs haas in the last 2 sets ( of course haas' form had come down as well ), vs PHM in the last 3 sets, vs monfils and played decently vs delpo as well .....

All of those were easy opponents that Fed struggled to beat. it wasn't because they were playing really well, it was because Fed's form was not great.

Originally Posted by abmk

delpo after come back , breadsticked nadal in davis cup on clay and was serving for the 5th set ..... nadal wasn't playing as well as he was in FO 2010, yes, but delpo wasn't playing as well as he was in FO 2009 ....

What 5th set? LOL talking crap again as usual. Rafa beat him in 4 and returned the breadstick favor back to him in the 3rd.

Originally Posted by abmk

the idea that djoker 2012 FO final ( apart from that stretch of 8 games ) coming even close to how delpo was playing in 2009 semi is laughable ...

It's laughable to say the Delpo's RG09 level was miles ahead of Novak 2012. THAT is what's laughable. Your completely biased opinion is what is laughable. At least Novak was fit enough to last on the court. He was also the ONLY guy to take a set off Rafa and there's no way Fed would've, had Fed somehow made it, Rafa would've beat him probably worse than the 08 final.

Originally Posted by abmk

djoker was down 2 sets to love vs seppi and was down 4 MPs to tsonga at this year's FO .... yes, the same claycourt mug you referred to before ...

But he beat Fed in straights. So his form was better heading into the final.

Originally Posted by abmk

weren't you also yapping again and again about how delpo was a grasscourt mug, but didn't he give nadal one hell of a fight at wimby 2011 ?

duh !!!!

Yep he sure did, Delpo played very well at WIM 11, better than any finalist Fed ever beat at a major. Oh wait, no Delpo lost to Rafa at WIM 11 so scratch that, Delpo played crap and was easy.

Originally Posted by abmk

hewitt was playing really well at that wimbledon because he finally was getting an injury free stretch ....

Injury free stretch or not, Hewitt was well past it and Roddick still struggled past him.

Originally Posted by abmk

and yes, roddick 2009 wimbledon final was much better than djoker USO 2010 final or FO 2012 final , its a no contest frankly

Why? Because he took Fed to 5 sets? Fed was not playing ANYWHERE NEAR as well as Rafa was at USO10 or RG12. Roddick pushed Fed for the first time ever at Wimbledon (well 2004 is probably another time but the 09 5 setter was the one where Fed was really in danger of losing to him) and it was mainly due to 2 factors: 1. Roddick was playing well that cannot be denied and 2. Fed was not playing as well as he had in the past.

When those two factors work hand in hand it usually calls for a close match. BUT Rafa was not playing poorly in USO10 or RG12 in fact he produced some of his best tennis in those two tournaments played very sharp and was always going to win the finals in no more than 4 sets.

Originally Posted by abmk

USO 2010, he got lucky that federer was on an error-fest and even then he had to save MPs (granted that took courage ).... had a scare in 1R with troicki as well IIRC , going to 5 sets

Everyone gets lucky when they beat Fed. If Fed this and if Fed that. Fact is nobody pushes Fed's buttons like Novak and Rafa and the main reason for that is their defensive skills, forcing him into error. Fed knows when he plays these two, if he doesn't hit close to the lines they will send the ball back with interest. This puts pressure on his shots and forces him to go for more, hence the errors. He can't play as safely as he does against Hewitt and Roddick against these two.

[The_Order]

Originally Posted by abmk

Jeez, learn to read. I was talking about delpo @ FO 2009 and not at this year ......

So was I, I said Delpo was not playing better than Novak this year. I meant 2009 Delpo was not playing better than Novak 2012. Sorry I forgot to put a number after Delpo's name.

Originally Posted by abmk

Novak's form was wildly fluctuating this year. He was down 2 sets to love vs seppi and down 4 MPs to tsonga ..... he played well vs an error-prone federer in the semis and in that 8 game stretch in the finals that;s it ....Apart from that in the finals , his BH sucked outright , wasn't able to get a good first serve in when required .....

Those matches against Seppi and Tsonga allowed Novak to get into form for his semi vs Fed. They played him into form. And AGAIN with the Fed was error prone. LOL he ALWAYS SEEMS to be error prone when losing to Novak I wonder why this is the case... hmmm I mentioned it in a previous post Novak FORCES HIM into error. Fed is not STUPID he knows that he needs to hit as close to the lines as possible or with as much pace as he can to win rallies against him. It's not like against Del Potro or Roddick or Hewitt where he can play a bit safer and still win the rallies.

Originally Posted by abmk

RG 08 and RG 12 were easily worse than RG 2009 as far as federer's form is concerned ...

Yeah 08 was another bad RG for Fed but not easily worse than 09 and neither was 12 easily worse. They probably could be considered worse but not easily, Fed struggled to find consistent form throughout the whole 09 RG until he played a choker in the final.

Originally Posted by abmk

I already debunked this cr*p ....Plus even though he didn't win it, fed also beat novak in FO 2011 ...

No you did not debunk anything! Tell me WHY FED has FAILED to win more than 4 majors whilst having to beat the #1 or #2 ranked player? He sure as hell has played against them and LOST to them plenty of times.

[abmk]

Originally Posted by The_Order

See now it's quite obvious that you have a Fed poster on your bedroom cieling and dream about him all night long. Baggy was MUCH better than Sod and Berdych? For what the first 2 sets until he choked the second set? He got bagelled in the third and lost the 4th 6-2 . That means he won a total of JUST TWO GAMES after having the chance to serve for the 2nd set and choking, and you want to justify that as a tough final opponent? GTFO LOL.

Gonzo was also pretty average after the first set. It's not really much to justify that Fed had it tough, was it tougher than Rafa's RG and WIM 2010? Well who cares seriously we're comparing crap finals performances here on both sides. I've already stated on 2 occasions but since you can't read I'll say it again, RG and WIM 2010 were EASY SLAM WINS for RAFA. However, they are the ONLY 2 really easy slams he picked up, Mr. Fed otoh has picked up quite a few more. I suppose you're going to say Phillipoussis was tough too lol.

gonzo was pretty decent even after the first set ..... nowhere near a cr*p performance like berdych/soderling in 2010 finals .....

baghdatis actually played well for 2 sets atleast. soderling only for patches here and there and berdych lost it whenever it got anywhere near close ...

I'm not saying gonzo or baggy were super-tough, but they were by some distance better than sod/berdych in the 10 finals ...

Originally Posted by The_Order

Ferrero? lol coming off his loss to CHRIS GUCCIONE in Sydney? The guy who beat a bunch of clowns to make it to that semi?

Safin was clearly gassed out he played what about 3 5 setters before that final, 2 of which coming in the QF and SF stages.

Hewitt was coming off a poor 2003 where his ranking dropped coinsiderably and didn't recapture his form until later in the year. I sooo wish Rafa was able to get those first 2 TBs against Hewitt the round before, he could've gone on with it and faced Fed in the 4th rd. THAT would've been interesting!

So who's his tough opponent? an 8th ranked Nalbandian who played to his ranking. WOW. Much tougher than beating Novak in 2010 USO

yes, 2004 rafa who beat a sick federer in miami and lost to hewitt in straights would make it interesting vs federer in excellent form ? LOL .....

hewitt had just beaten federer in the Davis Cup in 2003 , coming back from being down 2 sets to love ...

ferrero was rapidly improving on HC at that time ...

nalby of course was playing well ....

safin, though admittedly had some fatigue , still put in a performanc by some distance better soderling/berdych put in the 10 finals ...

Originally Posted by The_Order

but but but Agassi was past his prime, so it doesn't count right? Lol he was 34.5 years old and still pushed Fed to 5 sets imagine what would've happened if he had to face Rafa or Novak, not a chance in hell he would've beat them.

the wind was a big factor in that 2004 USO match . and clueless, federer actually beat novak at the USO in 2007,08 and 09 ...

Originally Posted by The_Order

And here we go this is amazing, Hewitt who got bagelled in 2/3 sets in the final and you talk about quality play lol you're making a complete fool of yourself and contradicting yourself so bad now LOL.

hewitt was playing well until the finals, then just taken totally out of his comfort zone by federer playing his best. Granted that wasn't hewitt's best or close to it, but federer's form was the overwhelming factor in that ...

[The_Order]

Originally Posted by abmk

I was saying it isn't fed's fault that he couldn't beat the #2 player in slams, because the #2 player wasn't good enough to meet him there when he was at his peak, duh !!!!

He played the #2 many times at RG when in his prime. Why couldn't he win then? Afterall that #2 was still a teenager or in his very early 20's.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by NatF

Strawman argument. But yes if Roddick made it through the draw and Nadal didn't then Roddick was playing better than Nadal. Nadal entered as many Grand Slam tournaments as Federer, if he couldn't even make it to the final then the chances are he wouldn't have been able to stop Federer anyway.

Absolutely. Strawman argument and that's why *** is on my ignore list.

The very similar case for Gonzo in 2007 AO. He blew everyone including Nadal off the court. Of course he's not a star player like Nadal, so only irrational fans like *******s will say Fed wins wasn't that impressive, ignoring the fact that Gonzo was playing out of his mind except only judge him by his GS history(LOL !). We don't even know if a prime Nole/Nadal would have beaten 2007 Gonzo.

[abmk]

Originally Posted by The_Order

So was I, I said Delpo was not playing better than Novak this year. I meant 2009 Delpo was not playing better than Novak 2012. Sorry I forgot to put a number after Delpo's name.

ha ha ha, LOL ...... delpo was playing much better than djoker in this year's final ...

Originally Posted by The_Order

Those matches against Seppi and Tsonga allowed Novak to get into form for his semi vs Fed. They played him into form. And AGAIN with the Fed was error prone. LOL he ALWAYS SEEMS to be error prone when losing to Novak I wonder why this is the case... hmmm I mentioned it in a previous post Novak FORCES HIM into error. Fed is not STUPID he knows that he needs to hit as close to the lines as possible or with as much pace as he can to win rallies against him. It's not like against Del Potro or Roddick or Hewitt where he can play a bit safer and still win the rallies.

err what ? federer wasn't playing well even before he played Novak and that was evident ....

didn't see that last year when he beat novak at RG last year, did you ? or the 3 times he beat him at the USO ?

Originally Posted by The_Order

No you did not debunk anything! Tell me WHY FED has FAILED to win more than 4 majors whilst having to beat the #1 or #2 ranked player? He sure as hell has played against them and LOST to them plenty of times.

because the #2 player wasn't there to meet him majority of the times ....

the no of times he has lost to #1 or #2 from 2004-10 - nadal RG 06, nadal RG 07, nadal RG 08, nadal wim 08, nadal AO 09 ... that's 5 times ....oh yeah, that's plenty of times

big decline from AO 2010 onwards , though he's played well in patches ...

[abmk]

Originally Posted by The_Order

He played the #2 many times at RG when in his prime. Why couldn't he win then? Afterall that #2 was still a teenager or in his very early 20's.

because nadal was a better clay courter ( & not that easy a matchup for federer )

[The Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by abmk

because nadal was a better clay courter ( & not that easy a matchup for federer )

Not a good match up = Nadal > Federer