The TT Football Club

[crosscourt]

You can be fairly confident those five don't include Messi, Xavi, Villa, Iniesta or Fabregas...

[Ross K]

Of course ^^^, and it won't include Pep G either sadly.

[crosscourt]

It turns out you aren't the only person who is sad. The papers today have photos of our fallen giants returning from Poland/Ukraine and some of them are still unable to hold back their tears. If it isnt JT it's WR or SG. They really are ridiculous.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Ross K

The enigmatic (or should that be 'shambolic'?) situation re Spurs and a new manager has at least been enlivened by the now public news that Sigurrdson is close to being snatched from Liverpool's hands. Of course what with the longest protracted deal in history to sign the Ajax skipper, Vertonghen, STILL not resolved, and with us having actually signed NOBODY, I'm not taking anything for granted until it's signed and sealed. But with Chelsea and Arsenal having already got a few players in (another one for AFC today I believe), we're way behind.

BTW, July 1st is the day I've been reliably informed who our manager is will be made public. As my info derives from the same sources who gave me great info re Redknapp being sacked weeks before it happened, I'm earmarking that day to finally be put out of my misery. And FWIW, the rumours are also still circulating that we are being taken over by a new company, investors, etc.

Whatever, I fully expect it's going to be a killer announcement... Guardilola on a 3-year deal and we've also secured 5 of Barca's first team!

They're saying it's Villas-Boas, which could be good for Spurs. They don't really have alot to lose, even if it doesn't work out too well and they drop a few places, it wouldn't be massive. If it does come off and he gets them into the Champions League, he'll of done well.

His style probably suits Tottenham, i'm interested to see how he handles the players this time though. A few weeks ago the Spurs players were wary of having him as their new manager, maybe he's learnt a few things and will pay more attention to forming a bond with them this time round.

[Ross K]

Originally Posted by Feña14

They're saying it's Villas-Boas, which could be good for Spurs. They don't really have alot to lose, even if it doesn't work out too well and they drop a few places, it wouldn't be massive. If it does come off and he gets them into the Champions League, he'll of done well.

His style probably suits Tottenham, i'm interested to see how he handles the players this time though. A few weeks ago the Spurs players were wary of having him as their new manager, maybe he's learnt a few things and will pay more attention to forming a bond with them this time round.

Yes, it almost certainly will be AVB it seems.

However, I don't actually expect him to get us into the Champions League next season - and I certainly wouldn't have expected us to with Redknapp either, had he remained. Last season was a freak year where Chelsea and Arsenal are concerned, and it's in part due to the abject failure to capitalize on this by Harry that got him the boot. City and United should be battling it out right at the summit. Chelsea (having spent astonomical sums) and the gooners (having bought well I think) should be back to more consistently dominant ways. I also expect Liverpool to be a lot better. Even Newcastle should surely be highly regarded.

Anyhow, I think it's a broad and more long-term project that Levy wants AVB to spear-head (and, yes, ultimately it will be regular CL footy we'll be requiring.) It's also about the style of football IMO (Levy is after a tactically progressive way of playing, I reckon.) It's definitely going to be about signings procedures (Levy never trusted HR with the £) and being able to work within certain constraints and alongside Levy, Lewis, etc. There's the proposed stadium change issue, which will have an influence. And there's a few other factors besides.


Will it work with AVB? I don't know. I also don't know if it would work with Blanc, Deschamps, deBoer, Emery, Benitez, Klinnsman, or Rijkhaard - all of whom who I really would seriously consider for the job.

Strangely though perhaps, I do actually trust Levy to a high degree. Yes, he has ballsed up managerial appointments in the past. He isn't perfect. But he is very hard-headed in his transfer dealings. I think he has the best interests of fans at heart and is tuned in to their views. I think he genuinely loves the club and his role, and isn't just in it for ulterior reasons. I generally think he's a pretty tough/smart cookie TBH.

So... yes, Fena... let's hope Villas-Boas isn't a complete d***head!

[Ross K]

He's obviously got a bit of an axe to grind, but I have to say, I agree with everything Rio says here.

http://www.espnstar.com/football/eur...39;s-campaign/

[Feña14]

I agree about Levy, he's made some mistakes but overall he's done a pretty impressive job.

As for Chelsea spending astronomical sums, well potentially by the end of the window yes. For now it's just the £32 Million for Hazard. Quite a big sum, no doubt, but one player isn't going to be enough to perform every week in the League like you need to. Last year we just never got started, every game looked difficult. Next year we won't have Drogba either, so astronomical sums do need to be spent if we want to go for the title, they've just not been spent yet

[crosscourt]

Originally Posted by Ross K

He's obviously got a bit of an axe to grind, but I have to say, I agree with everything Rio says here.

http://www.espnstar.com/football/eur...39;s-campaign/

There is a good article by Matthew Syed in The Times today along similar lines. If I knew how to post it I would. One of the points he draws out is that England's possession stats for the Italy (and I think France) games were equivalent to those recorded when Championship teams play a Premiership side.

[crosscourt]

Originally Posted by Ross K

Anyhow, I think it's a broad and more long-term project that Levy wants AVB to spear-head (and, yes, ultimately it will be regular CL footy we'll be requiring.)

If we are more succesful in Europe will we get more Premiership teams in? Or are we already at our limit?

[Ross K]

Could be total BLX of course as these fans ITK forum things frequently are rubbish, however...

PED, other gooners here... FYI...

RVP contract of £225k per week with #MCFC was agreed in March. The fee to #AFC is the only part of deal outstanding.

[Ross K]

Originally Posted by crosscourt

There is a good article by Matthew Syed in The Times today along similar lines. If I knew how to post it I would. One of the points he draws out is that England's possession stats for the Italy (and I think France) games were equivalent to those recorded when Championship teams play a Premiership side.

Cheers for link.

Have to say S, after these Euros, very quickly and certainly from the Swedish game onwards, I feel more negative and disgruntled with England than ever.

I can now see why Liverpool fans were so unhappy with Hodgson... rather like with my club at WHL, I think England desperately need a younger, progressive, tactically flexible and astute astute man in charge who isn't essentially 4-4-2 stick-in-the-mud and actually likes possession of the football.

Is it too early to join/start a "Hodgson out" campaign!

[raging]

Originally Posted by Ross K

Cheers for link.

Have to say S, after these Euros, very quickly and certainly from the Swedish game onwards, I feel more negative and disgruntled with England than ever.

I can now see why Liverpool fans were so unhappy with Hodgson... rather like with my club at WHL, I think England desperately need a younger, progressive, tactically flexible and astute astute man in charge who isn't essentially 4-4-2 stick-in-the-mud and actually likes possession of the football.

Is it too early to join/start a "Hodgson out" campaign!

I know it is fashionable to blame the manager in English football(& probably most countries) but the players got the manager they deserved!
Put another way, England don't have the players to play possession football,
England played the only way they knew how & nearly stole the game from Italy on penalties.
I haven't seen or heard of an English team who have played outright possession football. Maybe in 1966 but even then possession was pretty even, I think?
Hodgson shouldn't be flogged for getting the most out of what he was given.
I think you should be glad he managed to get the team working together, this was one of the most professional tournament teams to represent England for quite a while.

Good luck finding the players to play possession football, it might take 10 years.
It has taken Germany 12! (they started in 2000)

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by raging

I know it is fashionable to blame the manager in English football(& probably most countries) but the players got the manager they deserved!
Put another way, England don't have the players to play possession football,
England played the only way they knew how & nearly stole the game from Italy on penalties.
I haven't seen or heard of an English team who have played outright possession football. Maybe in 1966 but even then possession was pretty even, I think?
Hodgson shouldn't be flogged for getting the most out of what he was given.
I think you should be glad he managed to get the team working together, this was one of the most professional tournament teams to represent England for quite a while.

Good luck finding the players to play possession football, it might take 10 years.
It has taken Germany 12! (they started in 2000)

Agree 100%

I thought Hodgson did ok, the atmosphere in the squad seemed better than it's been for awhile. It's clear we aren't a particularly good team, the stats about England having about the same possession that a Championship team does against a Premier League one doesn't really come as a surprise.

Hodgson did what he could with what he had. The only criticisms I have of him were his original squad, Downing should of been nowhere near the squad and Johnson should of been. Henderson shouldn't of gone either. I'd of played more of Oxlade-Chamberlain too, apart from that I don't think the manager got alot wrong, especially when you think he only had a week or two in the job before the tournament started.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Ross K

Could be total BLX of course as these fans ITK forum things frequently are rubbish, however...

PED, other gooners here... FYI...

Interesting! It would start things moving I think, Tevez and/or Dzeko could be on the move if that's the case.

You heard Madrid are thinking of offering £30 Million and Sahin for Modric? I hope you bite their hands off! Sahin is a great deep lying playmaker, but you can get a top striker in aswell. That would certainly strengthen Tottenham, if you could sort out Vertonghen in the end and get Sigurdsson, Spurs would be in great shape.

[Breaker]

Originally Posted by raging

I know it is fashionable to blame the manager in English football(& probably most countries) but the players got the manager they deserved!
Put another way, England don't have the players to play possession football,
England played the only way they knew how & nearly stole the game from Italy on penalties.
I haven't seen or heard of an English team who have played outright possession football. Maybe in 1966 but even then possession was pretty even, I think?
Hodgson shouldn't be flogged for getting the most out of what he was given.
I think you should be glad he managed to get the team working together, this was one of the most professional tournament teams to represent England for quite a while.

Good luck finding the players to play possession football, it might take 10 years.
It has taken Germany 12! (they started in 2000)

Maybe not the players he brought, look at Swansea who had a base midfield of Joe Allen (Welsh) and Leon Britton (English) and a combination of English/Welsh defenders and wingers yet were consistently among the top 5-6 all year in possession statistics across Europe, their wingers being poor at finishing and Graham being average were their downfall but it shows that English players can play possession to great effect (at home they absolutely passed City off the park for 70 minutes and we have some of the best midfielders in the world).

If someone like Roberto Martinez were to take over England I'm sure possession football would come. Barry, Carrick, Cleverley, and Wilshere would be capable of this and I'm sure other mids could do this pretty well if the system was implemented.

With Hodgson it's always going to be 'defend first' counterattacking football in a 4-4-2, if he managed Spain he would do the same thing.

[Ross K]

Originally Posted by raging

I know it is fashionable to blame the manager in English football(& probably most countries) but the players got the manager they deserved!
Put another way, England don't have the players to play possession football,
England played the only way they knew how & nearly stole the game from Italy on penalties.
I haven't seen or heard of an English team who have played outright possession football. Maybe in 1966 but even then possession was pretty even, I think?
Hodgson shouldn't be flogged for getting the most out of what he was given.
I think you should be glad he managed to get the team working together, this was one of the most professional tournament teams to represent England for quite a while.

Good luck finding the players to play possession football, it might take 10 years.
It has taken Germany 12! (they started in 2000)

Like Breaker, I don't agree re the possession point, though there's a few aspects to this topic, and it wasn't my major contention that England should be playing a Spanish-style maximum possession game.

I am indeed glad he has raised the heart, unity and I think organization too. But for some of the reasons mentioned in previous post, I simply suspect Hodgson isn't the right man to oversee what is surely required here - ie, something of a revolution.

You heard Madrid are thinking of offering £30 Million and Sahin for Modric? I hope you bite their hands off! Sahin is a great deep lying playmaker, but you can get a top striker in aswell. That would certainly strengthen Tottenham, if you could sort out Vertonghen in the end and get Sigurdsson, Spurs would be in great shape.

Fena - Yes, at last Spurs seem to be getting somewhat more active, and this Sahin for Modric + 30M could be great for us. Sigurdsson I like a lot and see him as a good VdV replacement. The Vertonghen saga is trying my patience to breaking point. We dedperatey need him IMO. And I expect AVB to bring in a few more ppl in the next couple of weeks, including (hopefully) the likes of Mutinho, Hulk, D'Oliveira, etc!

[crosscourt]

I agree with you Ross. We aren't asking England to play like Spain, nor are we asking a manager to take a bunch of guys off a site and turn them into technically accomplished footballers. We are asking the manager to identify what he wants from the fuLl time professional players and then to see them respond. The idea that our players can't respond if they are given the right incentives is a strange one.

It is an error to think that we can survive if we don't play possession football. It is also an error to think that we don't aspire to play possession football. As Fena pointed out in one of his posts we will do it against less good teams and we will do it because it is to our advantage. Playing without the ball is exhausting. Controlling the ball is critical.

[raging]

Originally Posted by crosscourt

I agree with you Ross. We aren't asking England to play like Spain, nor are we asking a manager to take a bunch of guys off a site and turn them into technically accomplished footballers. We are asking the manager to identify what he wants from the fuLl time professional players and then to see them respond. The idea that our players can't respond if they are given the right incentives is a strange one.

It is an error to think that we can survive if we don't play possession football. It is also an error to think that we don't aspire to play possession football. As Fena pointed out in one of his posts we will do it against less good teams and we will do it because it is to our advantage. Playing without the ball is exhausting. Controlling the ball is critical.

All of that is great when the other guys don't want the ball too..
Agreed 100% England must aspire to getting the ball.
Not saying the english players don't want to play this style but you have to pick a side that is functional.Roy has to wear that criticism but I think he did a pretty good job, some guys who might of played lost form, had injuries or didn't fit with his system. He is a bit of a fireman, he goes in, rescues teams, gets people out safe & if possible with their respect intact.
This is no criticism as he is very good at it & saved England from what could have been a disaster, he molded a team, maybe not the one you guys wanted but one that worked.
I find it ironical that I am defending Hodgson because I don't like the system of football he plays & thought it was absolute madness playing Italy without man-marking Pirlo. This guy destroys zones!
I think this was his biggest folly as he could have used Parker, it would have left a huge hole but it would have created havoc within Italy's set-up.
But this is England we are talking about & being brave in making selections is not a strength.

Rooney needed a strike, midfield partner to make him more dangerous. Gerrard & Parker ran around & ran their hearts out, brave & strong, nobody could doubt their committment to the shirt.
But where were the creators in midfield?
Until they get someone who steps up & says playmaker, you actually need 2 to make it work & even then it can be shut down as we saw with Spain last night. They had arguably 4 & created chances but still got squashed out of shape a bit.

Really looking forward to how Germany deal with Pirlo & create chances with their playmakers, so difficult to get a chance to start for them.
There is a traffic jam to get into their side & the competition is fierce.
Will be fascinating watching Germany in 2 years.
They are impatient though & believe it is their time...

Sorry for diverging onto Euro but it reflects one future direction of international football. The Premier League is a strange, tribal beast that is now populated by highly paid international footballers who have less allegiance to the cause. Every footballer wants to win for their country.

I am sure a lot of Chinese coaches, those going to coach in China are taking notes, videos etc. In 10 years there will be some more amazing Chinese players..all countries should continue developing players.
Hope England can keep up.

[crosscourt]

I am sure that a lot of what you say is true. The thing about possession is that it helps you to do all the things you are talking about. If you don't have the ball you have to chase it. The longer you have to chase it the less you are able to do when you have it. The more chasers you have the fewer creators. What you want England to do is a function of possession and their lack of it.

This debate started with the shortcomings of our defence. What we want first is the ability to control the ball defensively. People are now starting to realise that the great strength and purpose in Spain's game is defending and that possession is everything to that, together with the ability to convert defence to attack. All things being equal international football matches are won by the team that recycles the ball most efficiently. Take the ball away from danger for you and put it somewhere dangerous for them. And then when they regroup, move it again.

[raging]

Originally Posted by crosscourt

I am sure that a lot of what you say is true. The thing about possession is that it helps you to do all the things you are talking about. If you don't have the ball you have to chase it. The longer you have to chase it the less you are able to do when you have it. The more chasers you have the fewer creators. What you want England to do is a function of possession and their lack of it.

This debate started with the shortcomings of our defence. What we want first is the ability to control the ball defensively. People are now starting to realise that the great strength and purpose in Spain's game is defending and that possession is everything to that, together with the ability to convert defence to attack. All things being equal international football matches are won by the team that recycles the ball most efficiently. Take the ball away from danger for you and put it somewhere dangerous for them. And then when they regroup, move it again.

There won't be a revolution of change in English football unless you change the technical director at the FA, Manager & whole coaching philosophy. (as Ross K wants?)

Clive Woodward said it all before, then did it with English Rugby.
It is possible to do it but you have to survive & want to put up with a lot of non-believers for 10 years. If you can get more people to buy into it you may survive longer. Woodward did really well with his time.

To change the mindset in football, It would make too many people uncomfortable for too long. You would need lots of backing & PR to do this.
For the playing style to change everyone has to commit & buy into the system, moving the ball around will be the easy part.
I agree with what you say, it is simple coaching practice for many football, hockey & even waterpolo codes.
I wish England well.