Pros using silcone spray on their strings

[Larrysümmers]

i stung up a 110 sqin racket with a 6x6 pattern. full bed of kevlar. i will see you at the French open.

[topseed]

Originally Posted by Wuppy

I bought some at Walmart today for $2+ and will try it out on my nylon strings. It dries almost completely after about 3 minutes.

NOT the same as WD-40 for chrissakes which is mineral oil (and solvents).

EDIT:

I do have one issue with the whole story. The article here (http://engineeringsport.co.uk/2012/0...out-of-control) talks about it, and says this:

"Advances in racket technology and increases in ball speed don’t favour the traditional (and arguably more exciting) player who attacks the net and plays off the volley."

I'd have to disagree and say that serve & volley is not "more exciting" than baseline bashing. The ITF, ATP, and everyone else dread going to back to men's serve & volley tennis. Crowds love to see 10, 15, 20-shot rallies, not serve-return-smash over and over again. Which is why the people in charge have done everything they can over the past two decades to (rather successfully) eradicate S&V from men's tennis.

Yup, its $2.99 to be exact. Cheers!

[mikeler]

I tried it last night on a new string bed. The strings still moved around some. I'm hoping to try it out a few more times to see if the strings will stop moving.

[chunlimeyers]

"Are you telling us that you've just only discovered that more open string patterns give more spin? Wow, I'm so glad I read these boards or else I never would have known."

No, "breakpoint", I am not trying to prove that. In fact, at one point, i SUPERGLUED the strings together, hoping to lessen the time it took them to break, relying totally on the 'open' stringbed. Well, what i got was a very stiff, unresponsive, and way less spin stringbed, until the glue started giving way. So, no, again, you missed the whole entire point and science project. You must have been an impossible student to teach in school! haha Many will tell you they get the same or better spin with a 18 x 20 string pattern than say a 16 x 19. There is no learnin this guy.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by chunlimeyers

"Are you telling us that you've just only discovered that more open string patterns give more spin? Wow, I'm so glad I read these boards or else I never would have known."

No, "breakpoint", I am not trying to prove that. In fact, at one point, i SUPERGLUED the strings together, hoping to lessen the time it took them to break, relying totally on the 'open' stringbed. Well, what i got was a very stiff, unresponsive, and way less spin stringbed, until the glue started giving way. So, no, again, you missed the whole entire point and science project. You must have been an impossible student to teach in school! haha Many will tell you they get the same or better spin with a 18 x 20 string pattern than say a 16 x 19. There is no learnin this guy.

Yeah, it's not worth anyone's time.

[DavaiMarat]

Let me clear the air, I didn't read all 9 pages of stuff but there looks like there's a quite a bit of confusion here.

Poly strings, generally known as the strings which produce the most spin, are inherently smooth by nature. Look at RPM, it's a very smooth string, round and non textured. It's claim to fame from babolat is the strings 'move' and return to their original place post hit.

Poly's generate spin by being a very dead string bed. They absorb pace but don't generate a rebound like more 'elastic' strings. This results in the ball staying on the string bed longer allowing the players muscles to rip the ball more by carrying it more. That's why most polys are considered as very low powered strings.

Yes poly strings move alot! This is how they absorb incoming pace and spin. The more the strings move the more power they can absorb across the string bed and not give it back into the ball. If the strings don't move the less contact you will get with the ball = I don't care if they were made of barbwire = you will get less spin and control.

Violin string or Polyester? Polyester will generate more spin hands down everytime. Though your more likely to take a chunk out of the ball with violin string!

Summarize

Poly strings move = Absorb pace = Longer Dwell time = More spin = less power.

[BreakPoint]

Bottom line:

Poly strings are stiff = stiff stringbed = more ball compression = more of ball's surface area biting into more strings = more rotational force imparted to ball when brushing up = more spin.

[colan5934]

Originally Posted by chunlimeyers

I am hoping to only stop idiotic "Breakpoint" posts on this subject

Best of luck. As you can see from his response to your post, he reads selectively at times and while you have quite the valid point, he tried to make fun of you for saying that open patterns give more spin, which you obviously know.

[DavaiMarat]

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

Bottom line:

Poly strings are stiff = stiff stringbed = more ball compression = more of ball's surface area biting into more strings = more rotational force imparted to ball when brushing up = more spin.

While I agree poly strings are stiff, it's not the inherent stiffness that creates the spin. I can string natural gut at 90 pounds and still not get a 'spin' friendly frame.

Look at Fed and Nadal, both who string in the low 50s and high 40's respectively. They have the two heaviest laden forehands on the tour. Do you think their string beds are harder then a multi done at 58lbs. As a stringer, I guarantee no.

Poly's are dead strings, that means they aren't very elastic. They absorb pace like a wet dish cloth. This helps reverse the incoming spin and increase dwell time. This combined with a vertical-friendly swing = lots of spin.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by DavaiMarat

While I agree poly strings are stiff, it's not the inherent stiffness that creates the spin. I can string natural gut at 90 pounds and still not get a 'spin' friendly frame.

Look at Fed and Nadal, both who string in the low 50s and high 40's respectively. They have the two heaviest laden forehands on the tour. Do you think their string beds are harder then a multi done at 58lbs. As a stringer, I guarantee no.

Poly's are dead strings, that means they aren't very elastic. They absorb pace like a wet dish cloth. This helps reverse the incoming spin and increase dwell time. This combined with a vertical-friendly swing = lots of spin.

Bjorn Borg strung his tiny 65 sq. in. wood racquets with the super dense 18x20 string pattern (incredibly dense in a tiny head) with natural gut at 85lbs and got tremendous spin from it. His stringbed was as stiff as a wooden board. That resulted in more ball compression, and thus, more spin.

Nadal and Federer can string much lower because they use poly strings. Poly at 50lbs is about as stiff as natural gut at 90lbs., perhaps even stiffer, IMO. I can feel the stiffness of poly on my elbow at ANY tension. Heck, when I string poly on a dropweight stringer, the weight doesn't drop nor budge even a centimeter. With a multi, it will drop like 2 feet several times so I have to keep racheting. The difference in resiliency is like night and day.

It's not just the dwell time that creates the spin. It's the fact that a stiff stringbed causes the ball to flatten more against it. This allows a greater percentage of the ball's surface area to come into contact with more of the strings in the stringbed. Thus, when you swing vertically, you are "grabbing" more of the ball with more strings and each string is digging into the ball more. This allows you to transfer more rotational force to the ball resulting in more spin. This is why poly users feel more "bite" and hear a louder "pop" when they hit the ball than multi users do. That's the sound and feel of the ball flattening more against the stiff poly stringbed.

[Wilson 1986]

I have never heard of this before, but does this go some way to explaining why the pros are always playing with their string bed between points?

[daved]

Have people not been paying attention to the little bit of actual research done on the subject by Lindsey, Cross, et al.?

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/lear...ngmovement.php

Poly strings slide easily against each other. According to research to date, there is an actual "slingshot" effect with the strings flexing and snapping back during the ball's dwell time on the stringbed, thus helping the player put more spin on the ball. While this happens with any string type, it is much amplified with poly (or any strings sliding easily against each other...hence the silicone spray thread here).

Yes, use of poly may affect spin production in other ways -- if the string is less elastic and less powerful, the player may feel more free to swing out hard on every shot.

But the "slingshot" effect appears to be the crucial difference. Try poly at 30 pounds in an open stringbed and you'll feel it.

[nyc]

Originally Posted by daved

Have people not been paying attention to the little bit of actual research done on the subject by Lindsey, Cross, et al.?

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/lear...ngmovement.php

Poly strings slide easily against each other. According to research to date, there is an actual "slingshot" effect with the strings flexing and snapping back during the ball's dwell time on the stringbed, thus helping the player put more spin on the ball. While this happens with any string type, it is much amplified with poly (or any strings sliding easily against each other...hence the silicone spray thread here).

Yes, use of poly may affect spin production in other ways -- if the string is less elastic and less powerful, the player may feel more free to swing out hard on every shot.

But the "slingshot" effect appears to be the crucial difference. Try poly at 30 pounds in an open stringbed and you'll feel it.

Thank you. Finally someone's got it right.
This was getting painful.

[Povl Carstensen]

Poly strings give less speed, but not less spin than other types of strings. So they have a higher spin to speed ratio, that is the real difference. You can hit harder, get more spin but not more speed (relatively), which basically means more control.
Just my theory but I rather like it.
It seems to work at even very low tensions where BP's deformation theory is perhaps not so much in play.
Edit: Oh, I see now that that is included in the link above, which seems quite comprehensive.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by Povl Carstensen

Poly strings give less speed, but not less spin than other types of strings. So they have a higher spin to speed ratio, that is the real difference. You can hit harder, get more spin but not more speed (relatively), which basically means more control.
Just my theory but I rather like it.
It seems to work at even very low tensions where BP's deformation theory is perhaps not so much in play.
Edit: Oh, I see now that that is included in the link above, which seems quite comprehensive.

That's because even at very low tensions, a poly stringbed will still be stiffer than a multi stringbed at higher tensions. Thus, the ball will still flatten more against a poly stringbed at low tensions. And, yes, the low power of poly will also allow the player to swing more aggressively at the ball, which will of course, put more spin on the ball because you're swinging faster.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by daved

Have people not been paying attention to the little bit of actual research done on the subject by Lindsey, Cross, et al.?

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/lear...ngmovement.php

Poly strings slide easily against each other. According to research to date, there is an actual "slingshot" effect with the strings flexing and snapping back during the ball's dwell time on the stringbed, thus helping the player put more spin on the ball. While this happens with any string type, it is much amplified with poly (or any strings sliding easily against each other...hence the silicone spray thread here).

Yes, use of poly may affect spin production in other ways -- if the string is less elastic and less powerful, the player may feel more free to swing out hard on every shot.

But the "slingshot" effect appears to be the crucial difference. Try poly at 30 pounds in an open stringbed and you'll feel it.

FYI, in the above experiments, the racquet was stationary and not moving at all.

"In these movies, the racquet was clamped into a secured holding device."

That is completely different from what happens when the racquet is swung vertically at a very high rate of speed. The direction and magnitude of the forces on the strings will be completely different. There would be much more force in pulling the strings aside on impact so the strings will move more (assuming a slippery poly) but the ball would likely have already left the stringbed by the time the strings fully snap back.

Take a poly stringbed and use your fingers to pull the main strings to one side as far as you can. Now time how long it takes for the strings to snap back. Is it longer than 0.005 seconds? Because according to Cross and Lindsey (in the book Technical Tennis, page 82), the ball only stays on the strings for 0.005 seconds.

[Power Player]

It seems like when people want to argue wrong theories about strings, they cite Technical Tennis.

[daved]

Originally Posted by Power Player

It seems like when people want to argue wrong theories about strings, they cite Technical Tennis.

OK, leave Lindsey and Cross out of it.

Have you tried full poly at low tensions in an open stringbed?

I have played with a POG OS for the last 3 years. Have tried nearly every possible string and tension combo. Mostly use full poly at 45 lbs. Very spinny. Spinnier than full poly at 60 lbs, which I used to use, or than poly and syn gut at 50 lbs., which I used for about a year.

I've also strung this racquet with the same poly at 30 lbs. Insane spin. At this tension, the "ball flattens more on any poly at any tension" argument falls apart.

What's happening?

At any rate, this is a fascinating question to try to solve. So many variables.

[BreakPoint]

Originally Posted by daved

OK, leave Lindsey and Cross out of it.

Have you tried full poly at low tensions in an open stringbed?

I have played with a POG OS for the last 3 years. Have tried nearly every possible string and tension combo. Mostly use full poly at 45 lbs. Very spinny. Spinnier than full poly at 60 lbs, which I used to use, or than poly and syn gut at 50 lbs., which I used for about a year.

I've also strung this racquet with the same poly at 30 lbs. Insane spin. At this tension, the "ball flattens more on any poly at any tension" argument falls apart.

What's happening?

At any rate, this is a fascinating question to try to solve. So many variables.

What's happening? Dwell time. The lower the tension, the greater the dwell time on the strings. More dwell time combined with more flattening of the ball means you can "grab" the ball more and for longer which will result in more spin.

[daved]

Originally Posted by BreakPoint

What's happening? Dwell time. The lower the tension, the greater the dwell time on the strings. More dwell time combined with more flattening of the ball means you can "grab" the ball more and for longer which will result in more spin.

Your argument is self-contradictory and not rationally coherent.

Your previous argument was that a stiffer stringbed makes the ball flatten more and this phenomenon results in greater spin.

Stiffer stringbed = shorter dwell time.

Your argument here is that softer stringbed creates more spin because of LONGER dwell time.

These arguments are mutually exclusive.