The TT Football Club

[Ross K]

Thought AVB did very well indeed at the press conference actually. That one short remark did stand out a bit, but in context and taking in the complete picture of what he said, well, he did absolutely fine IMHO.

He certainly came across as thoroughly at home and relaxed, as well as being somewhat commanding and professional. It was noticeable in the coverage I picked up they made a lot of him appearing at ease and being in his element, and in fact the whole occasion was slightly overtaken anyhow - rather than solely focus on AVB, seems the press were more interested and bowled over by the new training complex where the conference took place.

So, what with this stunning new training facility (and it's meant to absolutely state of the art, mega-impressive) now ready; new signings coming in; a young, new, progressive coach who really has a desire to prove himself, well, there is a certain excitement and momentum building at WHL right now.

Re Silva and Zlatan I, it's interesting to see PSG entering the dizzying, obscene levels of cash outlay more familiarly associated with Chelsea (and BTW I wish they'd stop hijacking our bloody deals!), and Man City (actually, who have they bought since the season ended?)... such a great and undervalued player (in the UK) too has been Zlatan...

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Ross K

Re Silva and Zlatan I, it's interesting to see PSG entering the dizzying, obscene levels of cash outlay more familiarly associated with Chelsea (and BTW I wish they'd stop hijacking our bloody deals!), and Man City (actually, who have they bought since the season ended?)... such a great and undervalued player (in the UK) too has been Zlatan...

Hijacking the Oscar deal? Well, Chelsea need that kind of player. We wanted Modric last year, you wouldn't sell at £40 Million (the price that they're struggling to get this time round). Oscar was lined up as a replacement for Modric at Spurs, so Chelsea went ahead and got a younger version of him instead

If Oscar was the one you wanted, surely you would of got him last year, or sold Modric already and have him signed by now? Sometimes it doesn't pay to keep players longer than needed. He has been on Chelsea's radar for awhile actually, it was AVB himself who said he wanted him and Chelsea have been working on it for around a year. I suppose you could say Tottenham coming in when AVB got the job was them hijacking it

PSG should have a great team next year, Sakho, Alex, Lugano and Silva at the back, Sirigu in goal, Pastore and Motta in midfield, Lavezzi, Ibrahimovic, Menez and Nene up top. They'll do some damage for sure, they could still possibly end up with Modric too, i'm sure he'll have second thoughts about saying he won't play there when he see's the signings they have made this summer.

[Feña14]

So Terry has been found not guilty, like he ever was in the first place.

The case only went to court after a QPR fan saw the clip on youtube and reported it to the police, Ferdinand himself said he didn't hear Terry call him anything untill he saw the same clip. How did they really expect to find Terry guilty when nobody heard him say it? Not even the QPR players.

Ferdinand's genius plan for winning the trial was to say he abused Terry about his 'affair', which got to Terry and he snapped. As a Chelsea fan who goes to alot of away games, that insult is tame compared to what he receives every week up and down the Country, where he doesn't snap. People shout sick things about his family, about his kids etc.. He keeps on playing. One person saying he slept with his friends wife and he decides to be racist for the first time in his life? Ha.

I work in Law and if that case was worthy of going to court, well, the Country is in a real mess.

[Ross K]

Originally Posted by Feña14

So Terry has been found not guilty, like he ever was in the first place.

The case only went to court after a QPR fan saw the clip on youtube and reported it to the police, Ferdinand himself said he didn't hear Terry call him anything untill he saw the same clip. How did they really expect to find Terry guilty when nobody heard him say it? Not even the QPR players.

Ferdinand's genius plan for winning the trial was to say he abused Terry about his 'affair', which got to Terry and he snapped. As a Chelsea fan who goes to alot of away games, that insult is tame compared to what he receives every week up and down the Country, where he doesn't snap. People shout sick things about his family, about his kids etc.. He keeps on playing. One person saying he slept with his friends wife and he decides to be racist for the first time in his life? Ha.

I work in Law and if that case was worthy of going to court, well, the Country is in a real mess.

Interesting. My only query is the fundamental question of why did Ferdinand go through with it then? Why put himself through it all, unless he held a deep conviction he was indeed racially abused or whatever?

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Ross K

Interesting. My only query is the fundamental question of why did Ferdinand go through with it then? Why put himself through it all, unless he held a deep conviction he was indeed racially abused or whatever?

It was because a QPR fan reported it to the police, so the police thought they would take it to court and play the judge a bit of youtube footage, laughable really. Suarez didn't end up in court because no fan reported it.

Nice to see the FA treat Terry like he was guilty when there was no real evidence to support it, they stripped him of the captaincy, it ended Capello's time in charge, lead to Terry living with the tag of being a racist etc..

You can make anything look like you want it to out of context, what's to stop a Chelsea fan reporting Ferdinand this season for being racist to one of our players? A bit of grainy footage on the internet where someone could possibly of said something seems to be all it takes to get the racist tag these days.

[Ross K]

Originally Posted by Feña14

It was because a QPR fan reported it to the police, so the police thought they would take it to court and play the judge a bit of youtube footage, laughable really. Suarez didn't end up in court because no fan reported it.

Nice to see the FA treat Terry like he was guilty when there was no real evidence to support it, they stripped him of the captaincy, it ended Capello's time in charge, lead to Terry living with the tag of being a racist etc..

You can make anything look like you want it to out of context, what's to stop a Chelsea fan reporting Ferdinand this season for being racist to one of our players? A bit of grainy footage on the internet where someone could possibly of said something seems to be all it takes to get the racist tag these days.

I see. I didn't fully realize this.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Ross K

I see. I didn't fully realize this.

The UK legal system there for you

The firm I work for ends up in court around 6-12 times a year. If the evidence against Terry was enough to merit the case going to court, we'd be in 10 times a week! Just think about all the man hours and money spent on this one alone, no wonder people have so little faith in the police.

[Meaghan]

So its ok for terry to say what he did ? It was never a court issue but nevertheless i hope the FA punish him like suarez, when his was one mans word against another, never disputed by suarez only the context in which it was said. Coming from one black man to another, i hear a lot worse said day to day that is ok because they are not white.

I expect terry to get a slap on the wrist and it will show up the FA in the hypocritical light hey deserve.

[Peters]

I'm not sure what the FA can do now, in terms of whether he could actually still be punished for racial abuse. If a court has access to all the evidence and can see it's clearly not enough for a guilty verdict (it's impossible to prove the context of some lip-read words with no witnesses) - then the FA would need to somehow find some new evidence I imagine. It wouldn't make sense for them to come to a different conclusion - and if they did, it would be refuted by Terry/Chelsea and a further legal battle would ensue.

I guess it's possible both Ferdinand and Terry might receive a fine for conduct unbecoming of professional sportsmen, etc. But I don't think it'll be anything major. It's pretty much all put to bed now I reckon.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Meaghan

So its ok for terry to say what he did ? It was never a court issue but nevertheless i hope the FA punish him like suarez, when his was one mans word against another, never disputed by suarez only the context in which it was said. Coming from one black man to another, i hear a lot worse said day to day that is ok because they are not white.

I expect terry to get a slap on the wrist and it will show up the FA in the hypocritical light hey deserve.

The court came to the conclusion it was highly unlikely he called Ferdinand that, he was on film saying he did not use the words he thought he heard Ferdinand say. Fans were shouting things, Ferdinand was shouting abuse etc.. No players on the pitch or camera's show Terry saying anything racist, just denying that he had. Ferdinand admitted in court he didn't feel he was racially abused.

Ferdinand didn't feel abused, the only person in the stadium and at home who thought he was, was one fan sitting at home who thought he might of lip read something Terry said. That seems to be all you need to end up in court and be branded a racist, something is wrong there. If I asked for a beer in a noisy bar and a black person serving mistakes it for something else, i'd officially be a racist for the rest of my life, my career would be over and i'd lose £2,500 if Terry was found guilty. Even Ashley Cole, someone people see as not the sharpest tool in the box found it ridiculous to be going to court.

Suarez got charged for actually saying something, his defence was that he comes from a part of the World where it's common and more acceptable. I'm not really sure how they're the same, using the direct insult Suarez did on tape isn't the same thing as Terry, so shouldn't, and won't be treated the same. It appears both players are going to be charged with misconduct, Ferdinand for the abuse towards Terry, and Terry for.. well, i'm not quite sure, swearing probably. I guess that means 20 players a game will be charged next year if that's the precedent that's been set.

[Ross K]

Originally Posted by Feña14

The court came to the conclusion it was highly unlikely he called Ferdinand that, he was on film saying he did not use the words he thought he heard Ferdinand say. Fans were shouting things, Ferdinand was shouting abuse etc.. No players on the pitch or camera's show Terry saying anything racist, just denying that he had. Ferdinand admitted in court he didn't feel he was racially abused.

Ferdinand didn't feel abused, the only person in the stadium and at home who thought he was, was one fan sitting at home who thought he might of lip read something Terry said. That seems to be all you need to end up in court and be branded a racist, something is wrong there. If I asked for a beer in a noisy bar and a black person serving mistakes it for something else, i'd officially be a racist for the rest of my life, my career would be over and i'd lose £2,500 if Terry was found guilty. Even Ashley Cole, someone people see as not the sharpest tool in the box found it ridiculous to be going to court.

Suarez got charged for actually saying something, his defence was that he comes from a part of the World where it's common and more acceptable. I'm not really sure how they're the same, using the direct insult Suarez did on tape isn't the same thing as Terry, so shouldn't, and won't be treated the same. It appears both players are going to be charged with misconduct, Ferdinand for the abuse towards Terry, and Terry for.. well, i'm not quite sure, swearing probably. I guess that means 20 players a game will be charged next year if that's the precedent that's been set.

That sentence sentence there signifies why it's 'case closed' IMO, plus also why it should never have escalated as far an actual court case at all.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Ross K

That sentence sentence there signifies why it's 'case closed' IMO, plus also why it should never have escalated as far an actual court case at all.

Yeah, there was no common sense in it at all. I feel sorry for Ferdinand really, he was put in a very awkward position in having to go to court. Terry lived for almost a year being treated as a racist, the FA had to make a difficult decision, it ended up forcing Capello out, it's costing tax payers up to £1 Million in legal fees, the vile atomosphere between the two clubs, probably the end of Rio Ferdinand's International career etc..

I can't think of anyone who comes out if it well, just totally unecessary.

[Breaker]

Terry should be locked up anyway as he's a twat, he and Wio can share a cell and discuss their true feelings on chocolate ices.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Breaker

Terry should be locked up anyway as he's a twat, he and Wio can share a cell and discuss their true feelings on chocolate ices.

Terry has been cleared, so I can't see that one happening as for Ferdinand? Well he will no doubt be reported. If one lone fan at home was enough to start the Terry thing going, the clear evidence against Ferdinand using derogatory racist terms is 10 times greater than what they had against Terry. I suppose he'll be in court this time next year then.

[Breaker]

Originally Posted by Feña14

Terry has been cleared, so I can't see that one happening as for Ferdinand? Well he will no doubt be reported. If one lone fan at home was enough to start the Terry thing going, the clear evidence against Ferdinand using derogatory racist terms is 10 times greater than what they had against Terry. I suppose he'll be in court this time next year then.

If he was found guilty he could accuse them of being racist though, it's never ending .

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by Breaker

If he was found guilty he could accuse them of being racist though, it's never ending .

True! It all started with Suarez, they handled that one poorly.

What happens now with Ferdinand though? Nobody was ever really convinced either way on what Terry did or didn't say, lip reading experts, players who were close by etc.. Rio actually came out on twitter and endorsed a racist comment towards a fellow professional. It has already been reported to the police, so surely we will have to go through this all over again?

If we don't and they let it slide, the term "choc ice" is fair game to be used freely on the pitch. How can the FA punish someone for doing it if they let Rio off now? It's an ugly mess.

[crosscourt]

Reading reports of the trial it is quite difficult to see how the prosecution hoped to obtain a conviction. But the conduct of the players is appalling. Terry and Ferdinand should face disciplinary charges.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by crosscourt

Reading reports of the trial it is quite difficult to see how the prosecution hoped to obtain a conviction. But the conduct of the players is appalling. Terry and Ferdinand should face disciplinary charges.

Yeah, i've been hearing that and it looks like it will happen. Someone said Terry could get between 8 and 12 matches, i'm just wondering what for exactly? All the camera's that caught him saying something were of him denying any racist insults. Whilst Ferdinand admitted to being abusive over Terry's personal life.

The latter happens in football, it's not very pleasant but I don't think little digs at opposing players in the heat of a match will ever stop. If they wanted to ban Ferdinand for that, but not all the other instances it goes on between players, I think he would be hard done by. Same for Terry getting a ban for being caught denying he said anything racist.

What do you think will happen with Rio after the tweet he made? It's been reported to the police, it seems we could be going through this whole trial all over again.

[PureAlph4]

What does Rio Ferdinand have to answer for? A Twitter follower tweeted him to say, "looks like Ashley Cole's going to be their choc ice. Then again he's always been a sell out. Shame on him." Ferdinand responded with, "I hear you fella! Choc ice is classic. hahaha!"

The slur on Ashley Cole was made by a 3rd party, whereas Ferdinand has merely recognised the content, and acknowledged that he identifies with the euphemism. He hasn't made a statement, nor has he necessarily even endorsed the 3rd party's slur.

The FA are now in the difficult position where they have set precedent (Suarez) seemingly with guilt being determined with a relatively low probability of guilt ('on the balance of probabilities'), as opposed to the criminal magistrate's 'beyond reasonable doubt.' They now have to decide whether to uphold their own precedent, and apply the same benchmarks in relation to Terry (he may well fail to satisfy this test anyway, based upon the questionable evidence). Doubtless they will **** it up.

I personally don't have a problem with the players spouting off streams of profanities on the pitch, but I do think offensive vulgarities of any kind addressed to the officials should be penalised.

[Feña14]

Originally Posted by PureAlph4

What does Rio Ferdinand have to answer for? A Twitter follower tweeted him to say, "looks like Ashley Cole's going to be their choc ice. Then again he's always been a sell out. Shame on him." Ferdinand responded with, "I hear you fella! Choc ice is classic. hahaha!"

The slur on Ashley Cole was made by a 3rd party, whereas Ferdinand has merely recognised the content, and acknowledged that he identifies with the euphemism. He hasn't made a statement, nor has he necessarily even endorsed the 3rd party's slur.

The FA are now in the difficult position where they have set precedent (Suarez) seemingly with guilt being determined with a relatively low probability of guilt ('on the balance of probabilities'), as opposed to the criminal magistrate's 'beyond reasonable doubt.' They now have to decide whether to uphold their own precedent, and apply the same benchmarks in relation to Terry (he may well fail to satisfy this test anyway, based upon the questionable evidence). Doubtless they will **** it up.

I personally don't have a problem with the players spouting off streams of profanities on the pitch, but I do think offensive vulgarities of any kind addressed to the officials should be penalised.

Well said, hard to argue with any of that. My only problem is the bit in bold, I think Ferdinand is at fault for acknowledging the tweet and then backing it up. To say he hears what he's saying and to laugh at a derogatory statement is just as bad for me personally. If someone says something racist and you verbally agree and laugh at it, I believe that's every bit as bad.