Penn State Sanctions

[adventure]

It's what people want. Consumer demand drives higher education. Guys want hot coeds; hot coeds want jocks; the schools want jocks to fill stadiums; jocks want to go to a school with hot coeds; fat middle aged couch potatoes want a break from their nagging wives so they tune them out for a weekend of football with big jocks and upskirt cheerleader shots. Advertisers want the dollars of fat couch potatoes. The universities want to be in conferences with huge bowl payouts.

The circle is complete. If a bunch of kids get raped, even if it's in a campus shower stall, no big deal, as long as the money keeps flowing.

[jamesblakefan#1]

Originally Posted by Fearsome Forehand

Yes, there is something seriously wrong when a university president and board have to kiss the ring of the head football coach. Bass ackwards.

But, big time college football brings in a lot of money via conferences, television, gate, parking/concessions and merchandising. It is the sacred cash cow in many places.

When Tom Harmon played at Michigan, the season was about 8 games plus the Rose Bowl if a team won the Big 10. Now most teams play a 12 game schedule plus a playoff game and a bowl game. The student/athletes are more athletes than students.

Maybe, it is time to rethink the way things are.

That's part of why I disagree when the NCAA says this ruling will change the culture of putting football ahead of kids. You really think this will stop teams paying players under the table? A team in Boise, Idaho playing in the BIG EAST conference for some reason? Hmm...I wonder why. The same thing that drives everything, money. It's too late to turn the train around, with the playoff coming things are only going to be even more about money and give these coaches/football programs even more power.

[adventure]

The NCAA is just as big of a problem. It basically pimps off college athletes to schools and advertisers. The problem is most severe in college football, where power-mad, sadistic coaches rule like tyrants over entire towns.

I've never witnessed it myself, but I've heard multiple reports of the endless verbal abuse these athletes endure from coaches. We see a glimmer of it from time to time (Knight caught on film with a hand on a college player's throat).

And then there are the injuries. I had a serious injury when I was in college, and was shocked to see a line of football players, all with equally serious or even more severe injuries than myself in the university hospital. Concussions, broken bones, early onset arthritis, serious stuff.

College athletics is a meat market, plain and simple.

[adventure]

The corruption of college athletics is endemic and the dictatorial rule of the NCAA itself is disgusting. Having said that, there are two options once you discover wrong doing:

A. Do nothing and continue to "enjoy" sports entertainment, or

B. Do something to try to rectify the situation, even if the solution is imperfect and/or itself subject to criticism.

Your nihilistic stance, i.e., "nothing will ever change" is first of all, factually incorrect. Second, it is morally objectionable (if I wanted to be harsh I could use the term bankrupt). It is a defeatist mentality.

Let's look at the situation and take the hypothetical one step further. Let's say the 4 team "playoff" does give some ncaa programs more power (I don't really see how this changes the financial landscape significantly, as only 1 additional bowl game will be played, but whatever).

If this is true, corruption increases. Teams are more likely to cheat. But as more teams cheat, and/or cheat to a greater extent, this increases the probability that they will get caught (statistical probability). This will lead to more investigations and hence more sanctions.

The tide could very well turn in the opposite direction then--more restrictions, more rules, fewer violations.

All in all, I'm simply questioning your basic assumption, ie that no improvements are possible and that further corruption is inevitable. NOTHING is inevitable. We all have a choice. Always.

Originally Posted by jamesblakefan#1

That's part of why I disagree when the NCAA says this ruling will change the culture of putting football ahead of kids. You really think this will stop teams paying players under the table? A team in Boise, Idaho playing in the BIG EAST conference for some reason? Hmm...I wonder why. The same thing that drives everything, money. It's too late to turn the train around, with the playoff coming things are only going to be even more about money and give these coaches/football programs even more power.

[jamesblakefan#1]

I meant nothing will ever change as far as these schools always going after the money first. Even my school (ODU) is moving to FBS to try and go for more money, even though we're going to lose our natural rivalries in football and basketball and likely get crushed in football for a few years because of it. You obviously took my words out of context - these schools are always going to go for the big dollars, as long as they're out there to be had.

[Avles]

Originally Posted by Fearsome Forehand

But, big time college football brings in a lot of money via conferences, television, gate, parking/concessions and merchandising.

It brings in donations too:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2...otball-success

The NCAA is corrupt, the universities are corrupt, but a lot of blame goes to the fans as well. If the fans stopped coming to the games and snapping up merchandise, if alums stopped basing their donations on football success, things would change in a big hurry.

But I think college sports is too much of a religion for that to happen.

[albino smurf]

They covered up child **** for over a decade. They should have shut down the football program permanently.

[norbac]

http://www.wgal.com/news/susquehanna...E5mVo.facebook

[hollywood9826]

The NCAA penalized Penn State for covering up criminal activity for over 10 years. They are not intersted in the victims opinions.

If another teams assistant committed multiple felony's over and School and team spent over 10 years hiding it, then a similar punishment was likely.

I dont like that Lawyer. This is how I read that whole atricle. My Client loved Penn State football and they should have penalized them. But we want to penalize the School by making them pay us money. But now that the football program is banned they wont make as much money to pay us.

If he feels the School is liable enough to warrant a civil suit for damages, then how in the eff is the fottball program not?

[volleygirl]

Originally Posted by Kevin T

I think the penalty is 20 scholarships per year? Add to the above vacating all wins since '98. It's probably as close to the death penalty you can get without being the full death penalty. It's been 25 years since SMU's NCAA hammering and they still haven't recovered. Penn St certainly has more tradition and $$ but I would guess 15-20 years before they compete for a national title again. They honestly haven't contended in over a decade, so maybe longer?

The penalty is not 20 scholarships per year, they are losing 10 a year for 4 years. Instead of having 25 per year, they will only have 15. This is not anywhere near the death penalty either so stop with that comparison. They may not get th 4 and 5 star athletes they usually get but there will be plenty of 2 and 3 star guys who will go there and there are enough patsies on their schedule to give them at least 3-4 wins every year. No they wont challenge for a title but the program would be shut down totally if they got what they deserved, so having football and 4-5 wins a year is better than none if all you care about is PSU football.

[Kevin T]

Originally Posted by volleygirl

The penalty is not 20 scholarships per year, they are losing 10 a year for 4 years. Instead of having 25 per year, they will only have 15. This is not anywhere near the death penalty either so stop with that comparison. They may not get th 4 and 5 star athletes they usually get but there will be plenty of 2 and 3 star guys who will go there and there are enough patsies on their schedule to give them at least 3-4 wins every year. No they wont challenge for a title but the program would be shut down totally if they got what they deserved, so having football and 4-5 wins a year is better than none if all you care about is PSU football.

Yes, 10 scholarships/year. It was misreported earlier in the day on many news outlets. You say it's nowhere near the death penalty/no comparison but that's arguing semantics. SMU lost 55 scholarships in 4 years and PSU loses 40 in 4 years. SMU lost a full season plus home games the next season (and volunteered to completely sit out the next full season) and PSU gets a 60 million dollar fine, equal to one season of football-related income. SMU got nothing close to 60 million (actually 60 million less). With the Internets/social media/exponentially more $$ in college football these days, the financial implications (current and future) for PSU are likely far greater. I'm not arguing that the program should be shut down or not but the penalty is pretty darn close to the death penalty, IMHO. How about a 1/2 death penalty? In addition, the students were involved in the infractions at SMU. Penn State's football team had nothing to do with it.

A short comparison on foxsports:

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefoot...thodist-072312

PSU's non-conference schedule next year is Ohio, UVA, Navy and Temple, then 'Cuse, UVA, Eastern Michigan and Kent State in '13. They should certainly win a few of those but none are 1AA like so many other top 25 schools schedule.

[volleygirl]

Originally Posted by Kevin T

Yes, 10 scholarships/year. It was misreported earlier in the day on many news outlets. You say it's nowhere near the death penalty/no comparison but that's arguing semantics. SMU lost 55 scholarships in 4 years and PSU loses 40 in 4 years. SMU lost a full season plus home games the next season (and volunteered to completely sit out the next full season) and PSU gets a 60 million dollar fine, equal to one season of football-related income. SMU got nothing close to 60 million (actually 60 million less). With the Internets/social media/exponentially more $$ in college football these days, the financial implications (current and future) for PSU are likely far greater. I'm not arguing that the program should be shut down or not but the penalty is pretty darn close to the death penalty, IMHO. How about a 1/2 death penalty? In addition, the students were involved in the infractions at SMU. Penn State's football team had nothing to do with it.

A short comparison on foxsports:

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefoot...thodist-072312

PSU's non-conference schedule next year is Ohio, UVA, Navy and Temple, then 'Cuse, UVA, Eastern Michigan and Kent State in '13. They should certainly win a few of those but none are 1AA like so many other top 25 schools schedule.

Kevin, I wanted to ask someone about this. The $60 mill penalty is a pretty big amount but couldnt some big alumni just pop off a check to cover that if they wanted to? I am sure they have some big donor like OK St has in T Boone Pickens and he writes off checks like its Monopoly money.

[Kevin T]

Originally Posted by volleygirl

Kevin, I wanted to ask someone about this. The $60 mill penalty is a pretty big amount but couldnt some big alumni just pop off a check to cover that if they wanted to? I am sure they have some big donor like OK St has in T Boone Pickens and he writes off checks like its Monopoly money.

Absolutely that can and likely will happen. That was the topic this morning on my local sports radio show. Apparently a lot of big PSU donors are saying they will substantially increase their giving. Honestly, I'm torn on how to approach the punishment issue. I would have been fine with the death penalty but at the same time, it's been a very clean program (in terms of NCAA violations) and the players seem to be without fault. You could fine PSU until doomsday but as you said, there will probably be someone to bail them out. Throw the book at the perv, Paterno (his assets now that he is deceased), the administrators, coaches involved and the university itself. I think I'm ok with the punishment that was handed out. Maybe along with the fine, forbid any alumni donations to the football program for a few years? I did see that the Big 10 will not share post-season/bowl revenue with PSU during their bowl ban, which = tens of millions.

[hollywood9826]

Yea somebody could step in and help with that. But its still a penalty. and its 12 mil a year for 5 years.

plus the los of 4 years of Bowl revenue (~13 mil).

There are also speculation that after the civil cases they will lose sponsporships, and thier credit rating could be downgraded.

PSU prifted over 50mil last year on football alone. Total revune for footbal was 72mil and other atletic department sales were close to 25 mil.

The fines aint as big of an issues as will be lower TV ratings and merchandise sales.

[Kevin T]

Originally Posted by hollywood9826

Yea somebody could step in and help with that. But its still a penalty. and its 12 mil a year for 5 years.

plus the los of 4 years of Bowl revenue (~13 mil).

There are also speculation that after the civil cases they will lose sponsporships, and thier credit rating could be downgraded.

PSU prifted over 50mil last year on football alone. Total revune for footbal was 72mil and other atletic department sales were close to 25 mil.

The fines aint as big of an issues as will be lower TV ratings and merchandise sales.

Yep. A reporter from Altoon, PA was saying that ticket sales had already dropped off late last season and apparently season tickets now get a $400 per seat charge tacked on. It's easy to imagine that there will be a large drop in season ticket sales.

[volleygirl]

Originally Posted by Kevin T

Yep. A reporter from Altoon, PA was saying that ticket sales had already dropped off late last season and apparently season tickets now get a $400 per seat charge tacked on. It's easy to imagine that there will be a large drop in season ticket sales.

They get an extra $400 added onto their season tickets for supporting the scumbags who ran this university? Who thought of this idiotic idea? Amazing how the costs always get pssed down the line.

[WildVolley]

I think the Orwellian changing of the school's wins to losses is absurd. As I understand it, the school is being punished for the bad behavior of the coaches covering up child molestation, not for cheating. How did child molestation help the team win games?

[adventure]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

I think the Orwellian changing of the school's wins to losses is absurd. As I understand it, the school is being punished for the bad behavior of the coaches covering up child molestation, not for cheating. How did child molestation help the team win games?

Trying to make sense of NCAA rulings is like trying to find meaning in a Pauly Shore movie.

[michael_1265]

Originally Posted by WildVolley

I think the Orwellian changing of the school's wins to losses is absurd. As I understand it, the school is being punished for the bad behavior of the coaches covering up child molestation, not for cheating. How did child molestation help the team win games?

I'm not sure about Orwellian, but I am sure the NCAA was trying to hit PSU where it hurt: Paterno's legacy. I don't know how much sense it makes, or what it will change, though.

[Fearsome Forehand]

^ It sets a precedent NOT to do what PSU did because if you get caught, all the wins will be vacated.

Big 10 will also nix the usual bowl revenue sharing for a period.

PSU Football will be messed up for quite some time. They really deserve all this and worse IMHO.