Having some fun practicing (video)

[vil]

Originally Posted by ATP100

IMO, same as last time, hit the ball higher. It will make you better in the long run.

I know I haven't changed that much but it's not like I'm not trying though. What do you mean by "hit the ball higher" ...to clear the net?

[ATP100]

Originally Posted by vil

I know I haven't changed that much but it's not like I'm not trying though. What do you mean by "hit the ball higher" ...to clear the net?

Hmmm, yes, the net is not part of the game. The net puts points on the board. The net doesn't make you hit better, serve better, volley better, It prevents you from these things. I know, sounds crazy, but in 2 hours, if you hit the ball higher, you will hit "X" amount of balls. If you keep hitting the net, you will hit less balls, slowing your learning curve.

P.S. You do hit good, I can just tell, if you choose to, you can be better.

[vil]

Originally Posted by ATP100

Hmmm, yes, the net is not part of the game. The net puts points on the board. The net doesn't make you hit better, serve better, volley better, It prevents you from these things. I know, sounds crazy, but in 2 hours, if you hit the ball higher, you will hit "X" amount of balls. If you keep hitting the net, you will hit less balls, slowing your learning curve.

P.S. You do hit good, I can just tell, if you choose to, you can be better.

I understand what you are saying but I think with my current way I hit the ball, if I go any higher, balls will start landing behind the baseline. I think most of my normal shots have fair clearance (at least I feel it that way) and the ones that go lower are usually flatter. I need to put more topspin to my forehand to make this effective for me.

[ATP100]

Originally Posted by vil

I understand what you are saying but I think with my current way I hit the ball, if I go any higher, balls will start landing behind the baseline. I think most of my normal shots have fair clearance (at least I feel it that way) and the ones that go lower are usually flatter. I need to put more topspin to my forehand to make this effective for me.

Yeah, I know, it's called training.
The lines only count when you keep score.



Good Luck

[Chas Tennis]

Originally Posted by vil

Thanks, great video! I watched it 'till the end. Some very good points he makes. One thing I need to force myself, is to make the back swing more compact by holding the racket with my right hand a bit longer and secondly, watch the ball all the way to the impact. I get sometimes too carried away and can easily take my eyes off the ball.

My worse problem is not keeping my eye on the ball also, it affects everything.

There are two ways discussed for watching the ball strike:

1) track the ball in and stabilize the head/view on the impact area

2) as the ball is coming in at some point, say, for example when the ball is 6-10? feet away from impact, forget the tracking and switch the view, head stabilized, to the area of impact. See D. Knudson tennis book, Biomechanical Principles of Tennis Technique.

I sometimes watch videos or do stop action on my DVR to see which method the pro's are using most often. I have definitely seen pros track as #1. I believe that they will also break off and switch to the impact area but have not viewed enough for stats. I tried viewing as #2 and liked it.

With the backswing, Elliott describes an angle between 1) the line between the shoulders and 2) the line between the hips as a measure of trunk twist. For the back swing he says to have the shoulders go back farther than the hips as a means of loading, stretching the trunk muscles. Elliott does not describe, I think, the arm forward of the body plane as Macci does. But the main idea seems to be - add power from the trunk. They also both start the forward swing with the upper arm up - elbow raised. ( I think that upper-arm-up is recommended because it gets the lat muscle somehow more involved.) Macci does not discuss muscles and Elliott does. Best book that I have found on stroke technique is Technique Development for Tennis Stroke Production by B. Elliott, M. Reid, & M. Crespo. Available only from the ITF Store for $20.

[vil]

Originally Posted by Chas Tennis

My worse problem is not keeping my eye on the ball also, it affects everything.

There are two ways discussed for watching the ball strike:

1) track the ball in and stabilize the head/view on the impact area

2) as the ball is coming in at some point, say, for example when the ball is 6-10? feet away from impact, forget the tracking and switch the view, head stabilized, to the area of impact. See D. Knudson tennis book, Biomechanical Principles of Tennis Technique.

I sometimes watch videos or do stop action on my DVR to see which method the pro's are using most often. I have definitely seen pros track as #1. I believe that they will also break off and switch to the impact area but have not viewed enough for stats. I tried viewing as #2 and liked it.

With the backswing, Elliott describes an angle between 1) the line between the shoulders and 2) the line between the hips as a measure of trunk twist. For the back swing he says to have the shoulders go back farther than the hips as a means of loading, stretching the trunk muscles. Elliott does not describe, I think, the arm forward of the body plane as Macci does. But the main idea seems to be - add power from the trunk. They also both start the forward swing with the upper arm up - elbow raised. ( I think that upper-arm-up is recommended because it gets the lat muscle somehow more involved.) Macci does not discuss muscles and Elliott does. Best book that I have found on stroke technique is Technique Development for Tennis Stroke Production by B. Elliott, M. Reid, & M. Crespo. Available only from the ITF Store for $20.

There's so many theories on tennis strokes, it's not funny. Somehow I never tried to copy any pro. I want to develop my own strokes that work for me taking some modern ideas. These tips are great, makes me realise how many things I do wrong. Sometimes with a small change you can make a milestone. Watching the ball is a big thing for me. I was never a clean hitter. I was always too preoccupied to see what my opponent is up to.

[connico]

It looks to me from the available angle, vil is making very good clearance of the net on the forehand?

[LeeD]

I haven't looked at the vid in 3 days, but it seems Vil's partner hits shorter more often.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by vil

Me and my partner tried to out hit each other just for change. Down side is rallies are shorter. We are both old school as you can see but I would loved to modernise my shots a bit. I have got a few great tips here in the past but I'm finding, when I simply get into rally I forget what I'm supposed to do. I also know my prep can be a bit late on faster balls.
Anyway, here is the video, if you have any tips feel free to comment.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGQw66fWRvQ

Not a big fan of the fh or the flying elbow. Your windup is too big, too complicated, too much independent arm swing, not enough upper body rotation. No wonder you tend to be late. Further, your huge windup seems to result in deceleration by contact and a short follow through.

I would recommend a couple of things to start:
- SW grip, or at least a full Eastern grip.
- Keep your racquet pointing straight up and your right hand on the throat of the racquet until you have completed your unit turn back.
- Initiate the unit turn forward with your legs and right hip, which pulls your upper body, which pulls your arm and racquet through contact.
- Keep your elbow in and forward during your entire stroke until contact.
- At contact your elbow moves out and up.
- Turn your chest to 9 O'Clock on your unit turn back, and 3 O'Clock on your finish with your elbow pointing to the target.

Ultimately, you will be swinging almost exclusively with upper body rotation and very little with independent arm movement until after contact.

[vil]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

Not a big fan of the fh or the flying elbow. Your windup is too big, too complicated, too much independent arm swing, not enough upper body rotation. No wonder you tend to be late. Further, your huge windup seems to result in deceleration by contact and a short follow through.

I would recommend a couple of things to start:
- SW grip, or at least a full Eastern grip.
- Keep your racquet pointing straight up and your right hand on the throat of the racquet until you have completed your unit turn back.
- Initiate the unit turn forward with your legs and right hip, which pulls your upper body, which pulls your arm and racquet through contact.
- Keep your elbow in and forward during your entire stroke until contact.
- At contact your elbow moves out and up.
- Turn your chest to 9 O'Clock on your unit turn back, and 3 O'Clock on your finish with your elbow pointing to the target.

Ultimately, you will be swinging almost exclusively with upper body rotation and very little with independent arm movement until after contact.

Thanks Limpin, that's what I need to hear. I always thought I have a big swing that never lived to its potential 'cos I'm often late. I'm talking about fast balls. With medium pace I rarely have timing issues. Can you please explain what do you mean by "keep your elbow in and forward"
Excuse my lack of understanding, I can't quite imagine that bit.

[LeeD]

Lead your forward swing with your elbow tucked close to your body, instead of flying loose far away from your body. Shorter arc, more control.

[vil]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Lead your forward swing with your elbow tucked close to your body, instead of flying loose far away from your body. Shorter arc, more control.

OK I see, I'll try the wall first. It's funny, I read a lot of these things in the other posts but thought I'll do one little bit at the time. I guess I have to get out of my comfort zone to make a real change. I'm a self taught player, never had any coaching lessons but I used liked to watch Lendl, Edberg, Sampras..etc. So I guess my style probably reflects that era. This is actually the first time I'm trying to get some guidance.

[LeeD]

You hit with more open stance, more windmill windup, less linear, shorter followthru than those guys....OK, Edberg has long windup.
But who's to say your method is not as good, if you hit well enough for your level of play.

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by vil

Thanks Limpin, that's what I need to hear. I always thought I have a big swing that never lived to its potential 'cos I'm often late. I'm talking about fast balls. With medium pace I rarely have timing issues. Can you please explain what do you mean by "keep your elbow in and forward"
Excuse my lack of understanding, I can't quite imagine that bit.

You asked the right question: The simpler your stroke (the fewer unecessary variables), the better. One thing you can do to simplify your stroke and eliminate variables is to start your unit turn with your racquet and arm in their hitting position. That is, with the throat of the racquet in your right hand, the racquet pointing straight up, your wrist laid back toward you, and your elbow in and forward - close to your ribs and in front of the side seam of your shirt. (You currently have a "flying elbow"). When you make your unit turn, keeping the elbow in close to your ribs and and as close to in front of the side seam of your shirt as you comfortably can (in and forward), the racquet head moves back very close to your head, with the face of the racquet facing the side fence, and then the back fence. When you've completed your unit turn, your arm and racquet haven't moved (only your upper body has rotated), and you are ready to let go of the racquet with your right hand and turn back toward the ball leading with your hips, which pulls your shoulders, which pulls your arm and racquet (ie: kinetic chain), continuing to keep your elbow in and forward during the forward swing. It's such a simple motion.

PS: This is a long lesson that talks about a lot of things, but, this young girl's forehand technique demonstrates a lot of what I'm talking about starting at about 22 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbwyL...LMIDCyV3x4-c&t

[Greg G]

Welcome to the "fix my forehand club!"

It is a bit difficult, and I'm not quite there yet, but I am starting to feel the benefits. So yes I feel it was/is worth the effort to change, or at least incorporate some aspects of the modern forehand into my game. I'll leave the advice to the others, am just here for moral support

Hey LeeD come visit my thread

[vil]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

You asked the right question: The simpler your stroke (the fewer unecessary variables), the better. One thing you can do to simplify your stroke and eliminate variables is to start your unit turn with your racquet and arm in their hitting position. That is, with the throat of the racquet in your right hand, the racquet pointing straight up, your wrist laid back toward you, and your elbow in and forward - close to your ribs and in front of the side seam of your shirt. (You currently have a "flying elbow"). When you make your unit turn, keeping the elbow in close to your ribs and and as close to in front of the side seam of your shirt as you comfortably can (in and forward), the racquet head moves back very close to your head, with the face of the racquet facing the side fence, and then the back fence. When you've completed your unit turn, your arm and racquet haven't moved (only your upper body has rotated), and you are ready to let go of the racquet with your right hand and turn back toward the ball leading with your hips, which pulls your shoulders, which pulls your arm and racquet (ie: kinetic chain), continuing to keep your elbow in and forward during the forward swing. It's such a simple motion.

PS: This is a long lesson that talks about a lot of things, but, this young girl's forehand technique demonstrates a lot of what I'm talking about starting at about 22 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbwyL...LMIDCyV3x4-c&t

Thanks again, I took your first advice and had a hit today. (our usual doubles afternoon.) I'm not sure if I did everything to the book but hitting this way makes the topspin so much more vicious. There's also element of heaviness, which is good. I'm very excited about this now. I need more practice though. I found I have two problems. My original grip was easternish, with this type of hitting, SW I find most ideal, so needless to say I forgot to change the grip sometimes so the balls ended up long. The other problem, I caught myself guiding the ball (towards the end of the day), which also sends it long. However, whenever I hit through the ball it was simply awesome feeling. There are things to polish up a bit and it will take time until I feel totally comfortable but I'm happy it didn't turn out to be as difficult as I initially thought.

[vil]

Originally Posted by Greg G

Welcome to the "fix my forehand club!"

It is a bit difficult, and I'm not quite there yet, but I am starting to feel the benefits. So yes I feel it was/is worth the effort to change, or at least incorporate some aspects of the modern forehand into my game. I'll leave the advice to the others, am just here for moral support

Hey LeeD come visit my thread

Thanks Greg, sorry I didn't expect this thread to swing this way, so don't take it as I try to steal your thread. I guess I'm now in "fix my forehand club"

[vil]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

You asked the right question: The simpler your stroke (the fewer unecessary variables), the better. One thing you can do to simplify your stroke and eliminate variables is to start your unit turn with your racquet and arm in their hitting position. That is, with the throat of the racquet in your right hand, the racquet pointing straight up, your wrist laid back toward you, and your elbow in and forward - close to your ribs and in front of the side seam of your shirt. (You currently have a "flying elbow"). When you make your unit turn, keeping the elbow in close to your ribs and and as close to in front of the side seam of your shirt as you comfortably can (in and forward), the racquet head moves back very close to your head, with the face of the racquet facing the side fence, and then the back fence. When you've completed your unit turn, your arm and racquet haven't moved (only your upper body has rotated), and you are ready to let go of the racquet with your right hand and turn back toward the ball leading with your hips, which pulls your shoulders, which pulls your arm and racquet (ie: kinetic chain), continuing to keep your elbow in and forward during the forward swing. It's such a simple motion.

PS: This is a long lesson that talks about a lot of things, but, this young girl's forehand technique demonstrates a lot of what I'm talking about starting at about 22 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbwyL...LMIDCyV3x4-c&t

It's a great instructional video. I think I'm getting on the right track.

[Greg G]

Originally Posted by vil

Thanks Greg, sorry I didn't expect this thread to swing this way, so don't take it as I try to steal your thread. I guess I'm now in "fix my forehand club"

Not at all, the more the merrier!

[connico]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

PS: This is a long lesson that talks about a lot of things, but, this young girl's forehand technique demonstrates a lot of what I'm talking about starting at about 22 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbwyL...LMIDCyV3x4-c&t

I like that leverage band and also one of the last comments "the hands travels relatively straight"