Finding my strokes after 20 years. Stroke video inside

[Greg G]

Hmm. One step forward, 2 steps back? I think in my attempt to lay the wrist back, I ended up with that exaggerated take back. I'll concentrate on the unit turn and keeping the left hand on the racquet longer, and let the relaxed wrist lay back naturally when the core rotates.

Do I have too much arm separation? Is the left leading too much because I released the racquet too early?

Will try to get back on the right track. Perhaps I went to hitting with added pace too soon.

@martini1: yes it is an indoor clay court, but instead of crushed bricks, we use crushed seashells. So we call them shell courts

[Cheetah]

can you make a video of yourself shadow swinging at 1/4 swing speed?

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by Greg G

Hmm. One step forward, 2 steps back? I think in my attempt to lay the wrist back, I ended up with that exaggerated take back. I'll concentrate on the unit turn and keeping the left hand on the racquet longer, and let the relaxed wrist lay back naturally when the core rotates.

Do I have too much arm separation? Is the left leading too much because I released the racquet too early?

Will try to get back on the right track. Perhaps I went to hitting with added pace too soon.

@martini1: yes it is an indoor clay court, but instead of crushed bricks, we use crushed seashells. So we call them shell courts

Not at all. You can only make a few changes at a time. Your takeback was always a bit too high, and you need to be aware of your racquet face angle. I would recommend going back and re-read post #12, with what I recently suggested about keeping your elbow lower, and the recquet head no higher than your head in the takeback in mind.

[Greg G]

Revisited the footage, and chose another stroke to show- is this any better in terms of contact?






Will take new video soon, hopefully improving on the issues raised re: takeback, contact, and follow through.

[Nellie]

on the FH, keep up that left arm! You are dropping it almost every time, so you are losing energy. Worse, when you finish, you jerk the left arm back up to catch the racquet, causing your body to bend back.

[FrisbeeFool]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

Well, that pictogram was put in the book I copied it from as a model of perfect technique for students to emulate. The reference to "flipping" (not the best terminology), is there because that's what you have to do to hit a 1hb. Hoad's wrist action (it's really forearm action), may be more pronounced than some of todays players, but not all. It's not as pronounced as Federer's, Haas's or Gasquet's wrist action. It's just coming from a less low to high swing path. But, it's important to understand that that wrist action is EVERYTHING when hitting a 1hb. It is not merely ideal for emulating, it is essential. Without it, you can't hit a 1hb effectively, topspin or slice.

This advice runs contrary to all advice I've ever heard about the one-handed backhand. You should focus on building a consistent, repeatable stroke. Good shoulder turn, then get the feeling for hitting through the ball at contact, then extending forward in the direction of your shot, making sure not to open your front shoulder too soon. Opening up your front shoulder too early on the one handed backhand will inhibit consistency, power, timing, etc. To build consistency and make sure it's repeatable get a feel for good spacing between the ball and your body so you're not cramped. Try to take the ball in your strike zone every time with your racket face perpendicular to the ground.

When learning the one-handed backhand many people don't have a repeatable stroke. They don't prepare early enough and they're not in position. Then they will try to compensate by flopping around with their wrist. Using your larger muscle groups in the shoulders and legs will create a consistent repeatable shot. Consciously focusing on wrist action on the one handed backhand is a recipe for inconsistency and spraying the ball.

I'm not sure where the wrist action advice is coming from. That's something beginners do, when they haven't prepared properly and they don't understand how to hit a repeatable stroke. If you're late to the ball, slice it or bunt it back.

Limpinhitter, what is this wrist action you're talking about, and why is it the essential part of a one-handed backhand?? I've never heard it taught this way before. Where is this information coming from? Do you hit with a one hander yourself? How successful has this method been for you?

[Greg G]

OK, videos from today's session. Hit so many forehands I got a new blister on my thumb! Hope there's some improvement. I had sooo many things in my head as I was hitting

Shadowing:
http://youtu.be/0O3uHLAAn4I

Front:
http://youtu.be/jsrRYWfK7zc

Back:
http://youtu.be/Za0OQLPTKV4

Side:
http://youtu.be/yBJaQhS0vxE

[5263]

really looks like you are headed quickly in the right direction.
Needs to get more natural of course, and maybe a little more from
the legs, but pretty nice overall. Contact pt seems much improved.
Maybe a little far to right for me, but you use a straighter arm.

Do look into the "pat the dog" position, which might help your backswing.
Really looking pretty good though!

[Greg G]

Thanks! Will try to pat the dog more next time out. I think sometimes I use the wrist to compensate for bad bounces, which are not uncommon on these gritty shell courts. Also sometimes when I try to really lay the wrist back I end up exaggerating it and not having any internal shoulder rotation. I suppose repetition will improve it.

It's really hard to keep the left arm up. Like a deep deep muscle memory, along with catching the racquet.

[Cheetah]

watch these videos. notice how the swing path is different than yours and how their racquet never gets to the position yours does as in the above frame in row 5 second image...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbwyL...3x4-c&t=02m55s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZqhH...feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J74Xp...9B4&playnext=1

[Greg G]

Hey thanks Cheetah! Now I have a clearer picture of what you mean about the wrist. Will try to keep that in mind. And resist the urge to get an AP band

Took video of it. I think I do break the wrist with a rotation/ forward snap (seen in first movement). Then I try to model the right way, just rotating with the wrist locked in a laid back position (subsequent movements)--is this better?

http://youtu.be/QhB0aU1qLqI

[Cheetah]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa-3GStYh_I&&t=04m10s

[Greg G]

Trying to work it out through shadowing. What should the vertical relationship of the shoulders be during the stroke? I find my left shoulder a bit lower than the right on follow through, which might be why my elbow goes up. If I try keeping it even, the stroke levels out.

Also experimented with a homemade "leverage band". Interesting results- the first part shows how the wrist remains laid back. Then I tried a forehand action- you can hear the velcro rip sound from the strain....

http://youtu.be/XRphkYtEv7o

[Limpinhitter]

Originally Posted by Cheetah

watch these videos. notice how the swing path is different than yours and how their racquet never gets to the position yours does as in the above frame in row 5 second image...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbwyL...3x4-c&t=02m55s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZqhH...feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J74Xp...9B4&playnext=1

The second video is contrary to many of the rudiments of the modern forehand, IMO.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by Greg G

Hey thanks Cheetah! Now I have a clearer picture of what you mean about the wrist. Will try to keep that in mind. And resist the urge to get an AP band

Took video of it. I think I do break the wrist with a rotation/ forward snap (seen in first movement). Then I try to model the right way, just rotating with the wrist locked in a laid back position (subsequent movements)--is this better?

http://youtu.be/QhB0aU1qLqI

yes that is correct. if you hit like that and don't break your wrist you will get hard, biting spin on the ball instead of that weak old school spin your current stroke is producing haha. and you'll get more power from the leverage.

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by Limpinhitter

The second video is contrary to many of the rudiments of the modern forehand, IMO.

the video was just to show him the wrist position. not the stroke

[Greg G]

OK here's a video of me shadowing with the homebrew leverage band. Taken at home since Fed-Del Potro kept me up late. Cropped so as not to show my bare feet

http://youtu.be/YICPnY0Rcss

This wrist slap component might be a hard habit to break...

[5263]

Originally Posted by Greg G

OK here's a video of me shadowing with the homebrew leverage band. Taken at home since Fed-Del Potro kept me up late. Cropped so as not to show my bare feet

http://youtu.be/YICPnY0Rcss

This wrist slap component might be a hard habit to break...

I like the idea there, but it has a neg effect on the loop or tk back imo.
It doesn't seem to let you pat the dog.

[Greg G]

Oh it does let me "pat the dog"- I just forgot to shadow that

Here you go. Keep in mind I have a grip between an Eastern and a Semi-Western, so it may not be as horizontal. I paused it at what I think is the pat the dog position. Let me know if it's OK. Thanks!

http://youtu.be/jxvfHxJfhcU

[Cheetah]

wrist looks good. swing looks a little better.

but your still going to produce a wimpy ball that i would eat up no problem.

you need to drive through the ball a little more. you have only brush there. no extension through the ball. and add some internal shoulder rotation. you have almost none.

all of your energy looks like it's focused on some point after the point of contact.
the energy has to be focused and explode on the contact point.

it looks like your main goal is to get the racquet to the left side of your body and you can't wait to get the racquet there. change your focus to impart power on the ball at the contact point.

look at djokovic. you can tell he wants to hit the ball hard with a lot of spin and he's going to tell the ball where to go. you on the other hand look like you want to dance with some imaginary partner that's waiting on your left side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbDl9...=related&t=58s

look how his racquet goes through ball. look at how his feet, rotation, uncoiling, body position, eyes, pronation, intent and his entire focus is all directed to the contact point. he's attacking the ball. the ball gets the energy and intent.

and he doesn't end up turned completely around facing the other way with his legs facing towards camera with the racquet nicely cradled in his left hand like an imaginary dance partner.

and look at his casual swing at 6:23. he's not swinging hard. but you can tell he's focused on impact point. everything goes there. the follow through happens naturally after that. you don't have to force the follow thru if everything before contact is good.