Etiquette of hitting at the net player in doubles

[Mongolmike]

Last tourney I was in I was watching a mixed open match.... dude was at the baseline and looked like he was gonna rip a forehand crosscourt, but actually went down the line.... and nailed the opponent lady up at the net in the head as she tried to duck out of the way for game point. Then he turned and walked away as his lady partner called out "good shot". Hard core, no mercy.

I go down the line often, so occasionally my shot gets close to or hits the net person. I do it because I have a heavy topspin shot that works really well for DTL, and I want the net player to freeze. It makes it so much easier to pass them down the middle when they know they have to guard the line. In rec play, everyone knows I go DTL often, so its no big deal... but in league or tourneys since I'm always playing against my level opponent or higher.... I don't really care so much what they think. I know I usually am not trying to hit anyone, and if I do and didn't mean to, I apologize. After that, what they think or say doesn't matter to me.

[Mauvaise]

Originally Posted by goober

Wait till you move up to higher levels than 6.5. I would say the majority of males in competitive matches always go after the female with full swings regardless of her position on the court since most of the time except in the occasional cases where the female is the higher rated player.

I know that 7.0 is not much higher than 6.5, but I haven't found your statement to be true. Every match I play at the 7.0 level, I'm expecting just what you describe because they know I'm the weak-link 3.0. I'm especially expecting it on the return of serve when my 4.0 partner is serving and I'm at the net, but 99% of the time the guy rips a return cross court. During the one match the guy didn't return cross court and I found I couldn't get set up for the volleys in time (I didn't get hit, just couldn't get the ball back) I moved back to the baseline so I could have a little more time to react.

Going back the OP: as the weakest player on the court (usually) during my 7.0 mixed matches, I expect to be hit at every time I take the net. I will also go at the net person myself if I have the opportunity and that's the best shot.

By "go at", I mean hitting towards the court where they are standing - at their feet if I'm volleying, or at their stomach (just over the net) if I'm hitting a ground stroke.

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Mauvaise

I know that 7.0 is not much higher than 6.5, but I haven't found your statement to be true. Every match I play at the 7.0 level, I'm expecting just what you describe because they know I'm the weak-link 3.0. I'm especially expecting it on the return of serve when my 4.0 partner is serving and I'm at the net, but 99% of the time the guy rips a return cross court. During the one match the guy didn't return cross court and I found I couldn't get set up for the volleys in time (I didn't get hit, just couldn't get the ball back) I moved back to the baseline so I could have a little more time to react.

Going back the OP: as the weakest player on the court (usually) during my 7.0 mixed matches, I expect to be hit at every time I take the net. I will also go at the net person myself if I have the opportunity and that's the best shot.

By "go at", I mean hitting towards the court where they are standing - at their feet if I'm volleying, or at their stomach (just over the net) if I'm hitting a ground stroke.

My first seasons of mixed were 7.0 as the 3.0 player. I think the reasons the guys aren't going for you is likely your partner's serve. If your 4.0 partner has a good serve, it is a tough ask to take that ball to the 3.0 lady at the net. This is especially so if the serve goes to the BH.

I remember that the best thing I could do was stay as close to the net no matter what, racket up. I would just try to touch the ball, and that was usually good enough. Usually the opponents would leave me alone if I could get the first one back.

Ah, good times.

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by goober

Wait till you move up to higher levels than 6.5. I would say the majority of males in competitive matches always go after the female with full swings regardless of her position on the court since most of the time except in the occasional cases where the female is the higher rated player.

I have played with 5.0 female players before. they are not that strong. even if they are playing with 4.0 male, i still go after the female. female 5.0 players kind of suck

[catfish]

Originally Posted by michael_1265

All is fair. That being said, my wife, who is a 2.5 and I are starting to play mixed together. Since 6.0 isn't an option, we will play 6.5, which makes it likely we will face a 4.0 man (I'm a 3.5).

In 6.5 combo, you're much more likely to face a 3.5 man and 3.0 woman or 3.5 woman and 3.0 man. In my experience, most 4.0's don't play 6.5 because they'd have to play with a 2.5.

I'm a 4.5 woman, and have played a lot of mixed at several levels. Every level has different tactics. I played 7.5 combo mixed last year with a 3.0 (beginner) man partner. We played many 3.5 woman/4.0 man teams. We played a few 3.5 man / 4.0 woman team. Frankly, the most dangerous people I've ever played in mixed were the 3.5 men. You just never know what will come off their racquet, so you better be alert at the net. They can usually hit the ball hard but they have no control and they often feel the need to try to hit winners from anywhere on the court. They hit a lot at the net person because most lower level players that they are used to playing don't have very good volleys or reflexes. My 3.0 partner and I did well against the 3.5 men/4.0 women, and it was mostly because the 3.5 men continued to hit every ball to me even though I was the most consistent player on the court. I'm not sure why they did that. Testosterone perhaps? We had a tougher time with the 3.5 woman / 4.0 man combinations. The 4.0 men usually noticed that my 3.0 partner was a beginner, and they would feed him balls until he hit one out. They pretty much kept me out of the match entirely. The 4.0 men were not wild for the most part.

I mostly play 8.5 and 9.0 mixed which usually involves 4.5 and 5.0 men. They usually try to control the match more with their spin and placement. They rarely hit the ball really hard at the net person because there is an expectation that people can actually volley at these levels. It's a totally different game at these levels.

[floridatennisdude]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

I have played with 5.0 female players before. they are not that strong. even if they are playing with 4.0 male, i still go after the female. female 5.0 players kind of suck

Im a 4.5 male and this is a losing strategy IMO. 9.0 mixed with a 5.0 female and 4.0 male? That man will be tested all day long. I ain't playing towards a 5.0 female who is likely either a teaching pro or former college player. You haven't played against enough 5.0c females if you're suggesting this.

[esgee48]

5.0C women know how to volley AND hit very good groundstrokes. There's reasons they're rated that high.

[michael_1265]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I can't get on board, Michael.

If your wife isn't ready to stand close to the net with her racket up to deflect balls struck at her, I say she should probably not play mixed until she can. And she definitely shouldn't play up.

I know I am in the minority, but I think if you can't take the heat, get off the net. Even if you are a woman.

Cindy,
I am okay with the play. I just think that the repeated application of the tactic by someone who has better options is not good form, and makes for a less than enjoyable match. My personal policy is to lay off if the woman is playing a "passive" net. If she starts to poach, than the light just turned green. The imbalances caused by mixed combo are a special case, I think. If you have four 4.0s on the court, there isn't any need for such considerations.

[michael_1265]

Originally Posted by esgee48

5.0C women know how to volley AND hit very good groundstrokes. There's reasons they're rated that high.

A couple of years ago, a 1977 Wimby Ladies' doubles champion, Joanne Russell, was a 5.0 woman. So much for lack of skill......

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by michael_1265

Cindy,
I am okay with the play. I just think that the repeated application of the tactic by someone who has better options is not good form, and makes for a less than enjoyable match. My personal policy is to lay off if the woman is playing a "passive" net. If she starts to poach, than the light just turned green. The imbalances caused by mixed combo are a special case, I think. If you have four 4.0s on the court, there isn't any need for such considerations.

Ok.

I was concerned about your remark that you would "take exception" if the guy hit at your wife at net. The last thing league competitive tennis needs is another guy who starts an argument when his wife learns she doesn't have a force field around her at net.

If you meant that you would suggest to her that she play from the baseline, that is fine.

I also doubt that special dispensation is owed because the four players are not at the same rating level. Anyone who plays up is presumably doing it because they can hang. People who cannot hang should not play up and then complain if the opponents take them seriously.

[Raul_SJ]

IMO,

Mixed 8.0 and 9.0 should be limited to 4.0's and 4.5's respectively.

I've watched several Mixed 8.0 matches and have observed that matches with four 4.0 players tend to be competitive and entertaining to watch.

Whereas, Mixed 8.0 with a 4.5 man and a 3.5 woman tend to be lopsided and involves hitting at the 3.5 woman and keeping it away from the 4.5 man.

I don't see the rationale for allowing it... Why allow a 4.5 to partner with a 3.5 in Mixed but not allow a 4.5/3.5 to partner
in Men's League 4.0 matches?

[Cindysphinx]

Originally Posted by Raul_SJ

IMO,

Mixed 8.0 and 9.0 should be limited to 4.0's and 4.5's respectively.

I've watched several Mixed 8.0 matches and have observed that matches with four 4.0 players tend to be competitive and entertaining to watch.

Whereas, Mixed 8.0 with a 4.5 man and a 3.5 woman tend to be lopsided and involves hitting at the 3.5 woman and keeping it away from the 4.5 man.

I don't see the rationale for allowing it... Why allow a 4.5 to partner with a 3.5 in Mixed but not allow a 4.5/3.5 to partner
in Men's League 4.0 matches?

^Agreed.

When I play 8.0 mixed, my partner and I just do not stand a chance against a 4.5 guy. I cannot get his serve back, ever. My partner will also struggle, so we cannot possibly break him. Meanwhile, 50% of my serves will come screaming back at me. If the opposing woman can get most of my serves into play and push the ball back long enough for her partner to poach, I stand no chance.

It would help if the 3.5 women were at the bottom of their level, but they never are. Only a few 4.5 guys want to play 8.0 mixed, so the captains have their pick of the best 3.5 women.

Mixed would be more fun for me if it were all 4.0 players (and 3.5s playing up).

[michael_1265]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

Ok.

I was concerned about your remark that you would "take exception" if the guy hit at your wife at net. The last thing league competitive tennis needs is another guy who starts an argument when his wife learns she doesn't have a force field around her at net.

If you meant that you would suggest to her that she play from the baseline, that is fine.

I also doubt that special dispensation is owed because the four players are not at the same rating level. Anyone who plays up is presumably doing it because they can hang. People who cannot hang should not play up and then complain if the opponents take them seriously.

Point taken. I consider myself chivalrous, but not psychotic. I wouldn't get confrontational. If he were headhunting though, he might get pegged with an overhead or two, something I am just beginning to have the ability to do.

Also, the score does make a difference. If we are playing even we are ahead, I don't expect them to hold back. If they are hammering us, I'd expect a good 4.0 to have a little grace, and not beat up on my partner

[Torres]

Originally Posted by tennistim

I have played a league match against another club where the server was hitting very soft, short 2nd serves. The same guy was also poor at judging the ball when at the net. Therefore, I hit a lot of balls straight at the net player. Most were hit from 3/4 court (just in from the baseline) so it wasn't too dangerous. If I was at the net, I aimed for their feet.

Although this play wasn't challenged in any way, I think some opponents would probably protest if it happened too often. This protesting could be used as a tactic.

What is the done thing at high club level?

Personally, I think deliberately targeting the net player, particularly if she's a woman, pretty lame. Simply because no match is THAT important at recreational level that you just HAVE to win under any circumstances.

I could understand if there was prize money or its livelihood at stake (for example, in the Wimbledon mixed dubs final, Myrini was firing balls directly at Robson) but at club level it smacks of 'big ego in small pond'.

I also can't see how you can really improve your tennis at club level playing that way by firing balls at a woman who can't return them. It's just false progression.

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

female 5.0 players kind of suck

They would still double bagel you.

[Clive Walker]

For me playing mixed league tennis (in the UK) it's totally acceptable to have a few pops at the woman at the net, but I feel that (for my own game) it has to be the right shot, and the right time.

In lower standard of tennis than I play (and I'm not great by any means) I see quite a few people simply picking on the weakest player and removing the strongest player from the game as best they can...

While that is a decent tactic for match play it teaches you nothing about tennis when there is no weaker player or in terms of personal game development, and gives you no options when playing up. I try to help out a bit as I remember what it was like when I was a lower standard player hoping to get a game against the better players in the club- Start taking a pop at the weaker net player purely because you feel that you have more chance of winning if you put it there is the wrong tactic to pursue in terms of learning the game, and IME will end up with the stonger player refusing to play down with you, even in a social game play manner.

[TeflonTom]

if u r playin purely 2 win, go for it

if ur playin for fun, dont be a ******. dont bomb weak players n beat them purely with pace. it doesnt teach u anythin and its no fun for the person ur beatin up on. rule of thumb for rec mixed is dont give a weak player a shot any harder than the ones they r hittin themselves

if ur playin for a combination of winnin and fun, n wanna develop urself, play the match as if both players r equal standard. playin the weak net player all the time is takin the easy way out, but goin outta ur way 2 avoid the net player aint natural either

mix it up. even if both players were the same standard u would still be goin down the line and hittin dippers at the net man occasionally 2 keep em honest. so dont feel like u cant do it at all

[mrw]

Doubles with equal ability it's OK

Mixed doubles- not cool ever for any reason.

[Setmatch45]

Mixed I am aware of the ladies if it 8.0 or under. Over that or in a mens match just say sorry and move on. Long long and short short if someone gets hit it is part of the match.

[beernutz]

This drives me crazy in mixed. I don't normally play mixed but Saturday I played in a big tennis round robin put on by my local league where you could end up with mixed sex partners and/or opponents. On one point I missed a relatively easy sitter overhead wide because I was focusing too much on NOT hitting the woman directly in front of me who was planted inside the service box. She was my same NTRP level and had no intention of bailing out but I couldn't bring myself to aim at her feet as I would have with a guy across the net.

If it was me in her position I know I would have gotten the hell out of there but she was apparently counting on me not hitting at her or maybe in the women's leagues she normally plays in they don't hit near each other.

[IA-SteveB]

I don't have a problem with avoiding a net player. I was pretty well known for feeding the net player as I learned doubles.