Where did talent go? U.S. tennis "Lost Generation"

[BeHappy]

There is no "system" in any democratic country on earth.

[JustBob]

Originally Posted by BeHappy

There is no "system" in any democratic country on earth.

Brilliant argument. You win!

[West Coast Ace]

Originally Posted by courtking

There are so many lame coaches in the local park that ruin the kids.. .. USTA should look again at the coach certification.. I have seen many guys with BIG certificate can't even hold the racket correctly..

+1. And a lot of them post here in the Tennis Tips/Instruction area.

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Originally Posted by sureshs

How many serve and volleyers are there in the top 10?

I think you're misunderstanding. At the time Nick poisoned the well with his baseline-centric crap, the field had numerous S&Vers along with baseliners occupying the field. Nick (and many in U.S. tennis) jumped on the anti-S&V bandwagon he launched via his own one-dimensional mind / Agassi's media identity. The rest is history into the Roddick era where his and the generation to follow (most playing variations of the same*) only to witness one of the most incredible drops from majors "grace" in generations. That influence corrupted American men's tennis, and there's no denying that such a form failed (miserably) to pay off with even a few majors--nevermind as many as Sampras.








*With a couple of minor exceptions--for example, Dent and Fish.

[sureshs]

You can say what you want, Nick has produced 10 world #1s. How many have serve and volley coaches produced?

Serve and volleyers like Dent and Rampras have not achieved much. Today, even the Doctor with his serve and physical attributes cannot win with S&V. The top four players today are baseliners.

If you just want to criticize someone for the sake of it, go ahead. But it is clear that only those who can construct points and grind it can win today, and for that clay training is very beneficial.

If someone like Sampras shows up again, that is good. Otherwise, today's game requires stamina, mental strength and patience. The Donald or Vania King are not going to be great players whether they serve and volley or not. That is not the issue.

[West Coast Ace]

Originally Posted by THUNDERVOLLEY

At the time Nick poisoned the well with his baseline-centric crap,...

You and I don't agree all that often, but I'm with you on this one big time. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Capitalist and respect what Nick has built (and he's not the only guy running an academy using this approach) - but so many of his students showed up with very incomplete games - many didn't even have decent serves - just put the ball in play. Agassi is the biggest example of this. Yeah, his approach gets (some) to the tour - but doesn't put them in a good position to excel.

[JustBob]

Originally Posted by sureshs

If you just want to criticize someone for the sake of it, go ahead. But it is clear that only those who can construct points and grind it can win today, and for that clay training is very beneficial.

If someone like Sampras shows up again, that is good. Otherwise, today's game requires stamina, mental strength and patience. The Donald or Vania King are not going to be great players whether they serve and volley or not. That is not the issue.

Yup, athleticism, good movement and solid defense have become paramount in the development of modern tennis players. Add to that point construction, and training on clay has become an integral part of good player development programs. That's not to say that players should only train on clay of course. The better programs/national tennis centers/academies such as INSEP in France, the Sanchez Casals academy near Barcelona and now the national tennis center at Uniprix stadium in Montreal have both.

Just a bit of trivia: When Tennis Canada hired Louis Borfiga, former director of coaching (tennis) at INSEP in France, as the director of elite player development, the first thing he said when he got here is "where are the clay courts?". There are now indoor clay courts (cleverly built) on the roof of the main building at Uniprix stadium.

The other issue which others have pointed out is coaching. This relates to not only "good coaching/training methods" but also to standardization/uniformization of coaching. The French tennis federation for example, not only develops it's own coaches but also supports independent coaches who satisfy the criteria set by the national coaching standards. This insures high quality of coaching throughout a player's development.

[sureshs]

The notion that Nick and Pat McEnroe did not "endorse" serve and volley and that is why it did not happen is ridiculous. When Nick started his academy, he was hand to mouth, and students sometimes slept in his apartment. Now, the best in the world train at his academy. Listening to this forum, they are all fools and should be losing to these posters here.

John Isner must have thought: I am the second tallest guy on the tour and when I come to the net, my wingspan is like an albatross. But since Agassi was a baseliner and I did not get email from Pat McEnroe to serve and volley, I am going to NOT use my advantages. And his stupid coach who knows less than the knowledgable posters here went: Righto, why would you want to win when you can lose?

[heftylefty]

There is a lot of work in developing a tennis player; and the USTA is only interested in poaching players and taking credit for their "development. Also America's best athletes still do not play tennis.

[Seany]

Don't always blame the coaches, the way American culture is heading, there are less and less kids who are willing to put the hard work in and and have a champion mentality, instead they become increasingly distracted by the internet/girls etc...Add to this they are probably comfortable financially. Sometimes you have to partially sacrifice these things and dedicate your life to your chosen sport, it appears to me the number of kids with the correct mentality is decreasing rapidly, not such a problem in Europe. You can't teach attitude.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Seany

Don't always blame the coaches, the way American culture is heading, there are less and less kids who are willing to put the hard work in and and have a champion mentality, instead they become increasingly distracted by the internet/girls etc...Add to this they are probably comfortable financially. Sometimes you have to partially sacrifice these things and dedicate your life to your chosen sport, it appears to me the number of kids with the correct mentality is decreasing rapidly, not such a problem in Europe. You can't teach attitude.

Is that why the US has the most Olympics medals in every category?

[Seany]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Is that why the US has the most Olympics medals in every category?

Pretty sure we're talking about tennis, a sport that has far more global depth than almost all these categories you speak of. Pretty sure we're also talking about a lack of top level juniors, not the Williams sisters.

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by Seany

Pretty sure we're talking about tennis, a sport that has far more global depth than almost all these categories you speak of. Pretty sure we're also talking about a lack of top level juniors, not the Williams sisters.

So "American culture" is only about tennis?

[West Coast Ace]

Originally Posted by sureshs

So "American culture" is only about tennis?

No, just this thread.

But you are correct: we took names and kicked *sses AGAIN at the Olympics, in spite of the pathetic officiating of some events (when the Russians say "this is worse than the Chinese in Beijing" something is truly rotten) and the made up events to pad the Chinese medal count and make them feel all special. "USA, USA!"

[Bartelby]

In the wood era the volley was also used to kill off the point and made for quick games, but in the slow court era the serve may have diminished in importance but that hasn't rescued the volley and hence points are longer than ever.

Originally Posted by TimothyO

I don't understand this nostalgia for super fast balls and super fast courts which were themselves a result of technology change.

As far as I can tell when the racquets moved from wood to other materials the ball and courts were still in the wood era. Thus you had a period during which the sport devolved into serving contests of just a couple of shots per serve. THAT wasn't tennis compared to the wood frame era. It was boring serve contests with the winner being the guy with a uni-dimensional game. Just serve bigger and better.

Today the ball and courts are getting back in sync with the frame technology resulting in more balance. Big servers still have opportunities to serve their way out of trouble or win sets/matches in tie breakers. But they can't JUST rely on serves to win consistently. They need to build points and exploit opportunities instead of just smashing aces down the T.

Longer/more complex points, more diverse skills, greater demands for physical and mental endurance/conditioning...that's far more interesting than tie break serve contests.

[Sabratha]

Kids from America just aren't that interested in tennis anymore.

[Flash O'Groove]

Originally Posted by Seany

Don't always blame the coaches, the way American culture is heading, there are less and less kids who are willing to put the hard work in and and have a champion mentality, instead they become increasingly distracted by the internet/girls etc...Add to this they are probably comfortable financially. Sometimes you have to partially sacrifice these things and dedicate your life to your chosen sport, it appears to me the number of kids with the correct mentality is decreasing rapidly, not such a problem in Europe. You can't teach attitude.

Actually there is no evidence that young americain have a different mindset than the young american from the seventies. There is even less evidence that if if this evolution does exist, it doesn't in Europa. What would make you believe that young "european" have a different mentality?

[Mick3391]

Originally Posted by TimothyO

I don't understand this nostalgia for super fast balls and super fast courts which were themselves a result of technology change.

As far as I can tell when the racquets moved from wood to other materials the ball and courts were still in the wood era. Thus you had a period during which the sport devolved into serving contests of just a couple of shots per serve. THAT wasn't tennis compared to the wood frame era. It was boring serve contests with the winner being the guy with a uni-dimensional game. Just serve bigger and better.

Today the ball and courts are getting back in sync with the frame technology resulting in more balance. Big servers still have opportunities to serve their way out of trouble or win sets/matches in tie breakers. But they can't JUST rely on serves to win consistently. They need to build points and exploit opportunities instead of just smashing aces down the T.

Longer/more complex points, more diverse skills, greater demands for physical and mental endurance/conditioning...that's far more interesting than tie break serve contests.

With all respect, I couldn't disagree with you more. In the past players PLAYED, they had footwork, placed their shots from all areas of the court.

I was shocked at the state of Tennis upon my return. They teach kids to be baseliners, they use these giant 110 sq inch heads and are taught basically to just get the ball over the net and hope the other guy makes a mistake, they don't teach shot making.

The baseliners just sit back, hit it as hard as they can, and aren't that concerned about actually placing a shot or stategy. I started teaching my son 3-4 months ago and started him with a 75 square inch wood racquet, it FORCES you to be good, it strengthens the arm, you have to earn your spin and learn to place shots. He now has a PS BLX 90 and just beat another 11 year old who's been playing for 4 years, and who just won a USTA tournament. My son had hide tied up in knots, the kid didn't know what to do.

Look at Djokovich, when he lost to Federer at Wimbledon, the announcer actually said of the then number 1, "He doesn't play well at the net"!

It's time we return our training and playing to stategy, shot making, and all court playing, if we do that we'll get better and do better.

[sureshs]

No junior beyond a certain age whom I know uses anything bigger than a 100

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Originally Posted by sureshs

You can say what you want, Nick has produced 10 world #1s. How many have serve and volley coaches produced?

The top four players today are baseliners.

What has the one-dimensional baseline form done for American men's tennis since the end of the Agassi era?

Nothing. Remember, this topic is about U.S. men's tennis, and the two generations since Agassi have only managed to trip their way into winning one major.

Further, I do not accept the excuse made by others when they simply shift the blame to the occasional Safin blip, and the rise of Roger and Rafa, as there's no excuse for Roddick's rapid decline other than his one-trick-pony skills were easily figured out once real talent emerged.

Moreover, Federer is not now, nor has he ever been a true baseliner; he's one of the last top male players who actively and naturally plays the entire court. While we're on the subject of baeliners, let's not forget that Nadal--the most unexpected candidate for change of all--made a conscious effort to learn the entire court when playing at Wimbledon (which was successful), as he realized baseline grinding was not going to work.

Perhaps if Roddick tried something else, he would have won those Wimbledon finals instead of Frankensteining his way to net.

The Donald or Vania King are not going to be great players whether they serve and volley or not. That is not the issue.

No one is saying they will, but if a child starts out of the gates only knowing a part of the court, they are already robbed of opening their minds up to tactical options, as opposed to the flat-footed, predictable antics of the Roddicks of the world--still carrying the ideological torch of the Nick farm.