Whats your top 10 of all time right now?

[kiki]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Henkel and Budge won Roland Garros in the amateurs in 1937 and 1938, respectively. Von Cramm won the title in 1934 and 1936.

Nusslein,Henkel and Von Cramm.The 30´s must have been german tennis greatest era as far as male are concerned...even more than the 90´s, with Becker,Stich,kiefter and Haas...

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by kiki

Nusslein,Henkel and Von Cramm.The 30´s must have been german tennis greatest era as far as male are concerned...even more than the 90´s, with Becker,Stich,kiefter and Haas...

Yes, they were strong then and they also had Aussem and Krahwinkel.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

I read the then actual report in World Tennis about the 1956 US final and there is no hint that Hoad suffered from back problems in that match. It just seems that you try to make your darling unbeatable, especially against Rosewall...

Rosewall himself has aknowledged that only windy conditions could prevent Hoad fron getting the grand Slam that 1956.He felt bad for his friend since he always recognized that " Lew, on his day, was not possible to beat"

He may be mean but he was a honest guy and a true gentleman

[kiki]

Originally Posted by pc1

Playing with a wood racquet is far more demanding than playing with the racquets of today, trust me on this. The wood racquets were smaller but heavier than the racquets of today. Try hitting with that type of racquet for thousands of swings and there is a major difference.

And actually tennis was a battle to make a living in those days. They didn't make the huge sums of money that they make today. It was not leisurely but a battle to survive. Guys like Pancho Gonzalez, when he play the major head to head tours knew he had to win or he would be a has been. How's that for pressure?

Of course it's not the racquet that makes a good player but a great racquet can improve your level of play and what you can do with the ball. Do you think it was easy to hit heavy topspin with the older racquets? They had to hit flatter shots because the racquets wouldn't allowed them to hit the heavy topspin easily.

I am trying to point out to you that the equipment often make you think the present players were FAR superior to the players of the past when it, imo isn't true. It's an illusion caused by the superior equipment. That's why I pointed out how McEnroe, over age 50 almost beat Andy Roddick two years ago in World Team Tennis in another post. John McEnroe in his prime lost to Tony Roche, past his prime. Not saying Roche was better than McEnroe but he would have been competitive if both were in their primes. It would be tough for both.

That's why I also point out how the women today can belt the ball like heck and look FAR better than the male players of the 1960's and 1970'a when you know the men would destroy them if they used the same equipment.

That is true.Wood rackets penalize those images while, at the same time, where much more burden on your arm ( and guts strings).Not many people in the current pro tour would play with a Head Vilas...I know what I am talking about.

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by kiki

Where were Plaa and Stoefen from? Just curious.

Martin (de) Plaa was from France. he was a trainer of the Musketeers in the 1920s and beat Tilden to win the 1932 World's Pro Championshis in Berlin.

Lester "Rollo" Stoefen might have been from California. He was runner up to Perry in the 1934 PSW L.A. amateur championships. He even became stronger (according to Tilden) in the pro ranks and was able to beat clay master, Nüsslein, in the 1939 French Pro.

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by kiki

Rosewall himself has aknowledged that only windy conditions could prevent Hoad fron getting the grand Slam that 1956.He felt bad for his friend since he always recognized that " Lew, on his day, was not possible to beat"

He may be mean but he was a honest guy and a true gentleman

.

When you say that Rosewall was mean, then you are mean...

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by Iron Man

I looked for the interview and never found it ( even a hint about it )

the internet dropped off and website cleared out without any trace , a cool story indeed

IF you find it post it even in Italian because I understand it .

by the way , didn't Laver rank Rosewall at number 6 in his GOAT list What do u think of that ?

I believe that the interview was during the 2010 Australian Open, which Rosewall attended.
If you doubt this story, there is a good way to check it out. Rosewall is still with us.
Laver deservedly ranked Rosewall at 6, but I would put him at number 5 all-time. I think that he could have handled Borg, Sampras, McEnroe and the others.

[kiki]

[quote=BobbyOne;6853902]

Originally Posted by Iron Man

Iron Man, Laver and Gonzalez did not have the lack of competition. Even if I concede that there are now more good players around, I still claim that the top did not increase towards now. Gonzalez and Laver had many alltime greats as opponents, many more than the current players have. Other posters and I have listed them several times already so I don't bother to give such long lists again.

And as for your strange claim that the older players played as though they would training, I give you an example: The 1971 Wimbledon QF match Rosewall/Richey, by the way one of the best matches ever played at Wimbledon, was a spellbound thrilling match of five sets and 64 games. 36 years old Rosewall had lost the first two sets before he won three tough sets. After the match Cliff Richey said to Muscles:" Well done, IRON MAN!"...

Gonzales era has the strongest top 6 ever: Hoad,Sedgman,Rosewall,Kramer,Trabert ( and Laver, later) and himself.Not possible to compare with current times...

[kiki]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

Yes, they were strong then and they also had Aussem and Krahwinkel.

True, I forgot that.So, either male or female, 30´s are german golden era for tennis and then, the 90´s ( Graf,Becker,Stich,Huber,haas and Kiefer).

[kiki]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

.

When you say that Rosewall was mean, then you are mean...

He was known in the entire tour as "Pockets"

[Dan Lobb]

Originally Posted by kiki

Rosewall himself has aknowledged that only windy conditions could prevent Hoad fron getting the grand Slam that 1956.He felt bad for his friend since he always recognized that " Lew, on his day, was not possible to beat"

He may be mean but he was a honest guy and a true gentleman

The recent Hodgson biography states that Hoad did not tell anyone about his back problem in the 1956 US final due to sportsmanship.
I would suggest that there were also commercial considerations, as Hoad was the subject of fierce offers from Kramer to turn pro. If Hoad was known to be damaged goods, this would impact his bargaining power.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by Dan Lobb

The recent Hodgson biography states that Hoad did not tell anyone about his back problem in the 1956 US final due to sportsmanship.
I would suggest that there were also commercial considerations, as Hoad was the subject of fierce offers from Kramer to turn pro. If Hoad was known to be damaged goods, this would impact his bargaining power.

I don´t know but it makes sense.OTOH, Hoad left a very highly regarded memory to all of those who knew him and his wife.He was worshipped in Spain and Gonzales ( yes, the SOB Gonzales), Rosewall and Laver were really fond of him.

[kiki]

PC1, don´t take it so personally about Rosewall.After all, he is a human being and there is no perfect one, is there?

I have the highest opinion of him, as I have stated many times.

In his book, Laver told that the most popular joke in the days of the pro tour was:

"Do you know how Kenny got hurt today? He just felt out of his pocket"

[pc1]

Originally Posted by kiki

PC1, don´t take it so personally about Rosewall.After all, he is a human being and there is no perfect one, is there?

I have the highest opinion of him, as I have stated many times.

In his book, Laver told that the most popular joke in the days of the pro tour was:

"Do you know how Kenny got hurt today? He just felt out of his pocket"

I'm not taking it personally for the record. I don't recall that line in Laver's book.

[BobbyOne]

[quote=kiki;6854646]

Originally Posted by BobbyOne

Gonzales era has the strongest top 6 ever: Hoad,Sedgman,Rosewall,Kramer,Trabert ( and Laver, later) and himself.Not possible to compare with current times...

You could have added the great Segura.

[kiki]

Originally Posted by pc1

I'm not taking it personally for the record. I don't recall that line in Laver's book.

I am sorry, I meant BobbyOne, not you.I just had a lapsus, maybe your request about where I rank Kodes absorbed so much menthal energy....in any case, sorry again.

[kiki]

[quote=BobbyOne;6854866]

Originally Posted by kiki

You could have added the great Segura.

he is overrated, a kind of more modern Nusslein.Talented, yes, but not in hte big men leagues.But lets not start again with that...

I adressed a repply to PC1, when I intended to adress myself to you...is about the popular joke of Pockets Rosewall, that was so hot on the old pro tour...

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by kiki

he is overrated, a kind of more modern Nusslein.Talented, yes, but not in hte big men leagues.But lets not start again with that...

I adressed a repply to PC1, when I intended to adress myself to you...is about the popular joke of Pockets Rosewall, that was so hot on the old pro tour...

Thanks, kiki: You brought me to laugh again: Your reduction of Nüsslein's status is really a funny joke. Even Charlie Chaplin (whom I admire) could not have make such a good joke!

And now you even begin to belittle the very underrated Pancho Segura. A journeyman could not have won three majors and could not have got a matchpoint against champion Rosewall at Wembley when being 41.

And believe me, Rosewall was really strong in 1962!

[Mustard]

Segura is the second best player of the 1950s behind Gonzales, in my opinion, as Kramer retired too early in the decade. Sedgman is neck and neck with Segura as Gonzales' main rival for the 1950s.

[BobbyOne]

Originally Posted by Mustard

Segura is the second best player of the 1950s behind Gonzales, in my opinion, as Kramer retired too early in the decade. Sedgman is neck and neck with Segura as Gonzales' main rival for the 1950s.

I agree. In my rankings Segura is among the top five twelve times and in the top 2 four times. But it's hard to decide if Segura or Sedgman was stronger.

Sedgman has won more majors. Segura was probably the more talented player.