NTRP purgatory

[leech]

Originally Posted by tenniscasey

You went undefeated at 3.5, so you shouldn't be there anymore. You'll lose more than you win as a low 4.0, just like almost every other low 4.0. The system is working as designed. I don't really understand how this creates "purgatory."

I don't fault the system for moving me up; I know my results dictate that. It's just the fact that I'm a bad doubles player combined with the fact that I will be playing much better players that makes me feel that I'm not quite ready for 4.0. I don't see it as a flaw in the system, but think I'm too good for 3.5 singles and not good enough for 4.0 (singles or doubles) at the moment.

[LeeD]

It's called "learning to play better tennis".
You progress faster with a crash course, might get complacent and stay 3.5 foreever if you only play 3.5 level players.
How to get used to 4.5 pace? Just hit with a 5.5, and very 4.5 is a weak hitter.

[leech]

Originally Posted by LeeD

It's called "learning to play better tennis".
You progress faster with a crash course, might get complacent and stay 3.5 foreever if you only play 3.5 level players.
How to get used to 4.5 pace? Just hit with a 5.5, and very 4.5 is a weak hitter.

Point taken. I do play matches against a lot of players better than me (regardless of their NTRP rating) on the tennis ladder I'm a part of. Just about everyone above me hits harder than me, and we have some good matches. I'll continue to do that.

Just in USTA leagues that I feel I'll be out of my league (b/c I likely won't be selected to play singles and would be a liability at doubles at least the first year). Maybe I'll improve over the years and my apprehension is unwarranted. Will be happy to provide an update next year!

[Cindysphinx]

I won't kid you: The bump to 4.0 from 3.5 stinks.

I've been bumped three times, and each time it is hard to get used to the new level. Two things help.

One is working on fitness. Fortunately, this is free and can be a do-it-yourself project.

The other is working on your strokes and improving your technique and footwork. That may require instruction, which is not free.

Still, I think parking yourself at the low end of any NTRP level is no fun. So I keep working at my game.

[jhick]

Better than the situation I was in. I got bumped to 5.0, then moved to a place where there are not enough guys to form a 5.0 league. Luckily my national benchmark rating become a computer rating after sitting out for a year and I was within the threshold to computer appeal back down to 4.5.

[leech]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I won't kid you: The bump to 4.0 from 3.5 stinks.

I've been bumped three times, and each time it is hard to get used to the new level. Two things help.

One is working on fitness. Fortunately, this is free and can be a do-it-yourself project.

The other is working on your strokes and improving your technique and footwork. That may require instruction, which is not free.

Thanks for sharing your experience getting bumped up and how you've adjusted. I don't think I have the level of dedication to this sport as you do; I'm impressed by your unwillingness to settle. I also enjoy your posts on league drama!

[leech]

Just came back from a ladder match vs. an experienced USTA league veteran. He told me something that makes me feel better about my subpar performance thus far in 7.5 combo. He said that only the best 4.0s get asked to play 7.5, so I'm likely seeing better servers in this league than I will in a regular 4.0 men's league. Hope that's true.

[jmverdugo]

You should give it a try, IMO the hardest part would be to find a team.

I think that if you are doing so well at 3.5 you probably only need to get use to a few things to do a decent job at 4.0:

1. The ball will come back more often. be ready
2. People hit better shots more times - they consistently hit good shots. Be ready.
3. Faster pace, for this you just have to play more to get used to it.
4. Get in better shape, it is amazing how that change in pace and type of ball can affect your physical condition, you will find that having to get ready faster and to hit back some balls takes a lot of energy, even if they are directed at you.
5. Be faster, IMO this is at least 60% a mental thing, remember yourself to be ready faster, to recover from your serve faster, to start running faster, you will be really tired the first times but you will get there.
6. Be smart, people dont just hit the ball back, they place it in the right spot most of the time.

Another thing, 40 is not old! you have plenty of time to get better, it will take time and you will lose some matches (a lot actually!) but you will get there. Personally I am a very competitive player, I play to win and while tennis is about having fun I certainly have a lot of more fun wining than losing, however, there is a point when winning 60 60 is not fun anymore and losing in 3 sets to really good players becomes a heck of an accomplishment and you end up with a smile in your face eventhough you lost, now imagine when you start winning!

[IA-SteveB]

Originally Posted by jmverdugo

You should give it a try, IMO the hardest part would be to find a team.

I think that if you are doing so well at 3.5 you probably only need to get use to a few things to do a decent job at 4.0:

1. The ball will come back more often. be ready
2. People hit better shots more times - they consistently hit good shots. Be ready.
3. Faster pace, for this you just have to play more to get used to it.
4. Get in better shape, it is amazing how that change in pace and type of ball can affect your physical condition, you will find that having to get ready faster and to hit back some balls takes a lot of energy, even if they are directed at you.
5. Be faster, IMO this is at least 60% a mental thing, remember yourself to be ready faster, to recover from your serve faster, to start running faster, you will be really tired the first times but you will get there.
6. Be smart, people dont just hit the ball back, they place it in the right spot most of the time.

Another thing, 40 is not old! you have plenty of time to get better, it will take time and you will lose some matches (a lot actually!) but you will get there. Personally I am a very competitive player, I play to win and while tennis is about having fun I certainly have a lot of more fun wining than losing, however, there is a point when winning 60 60 is not fun anymore and losing in 3 sets to really good players becomes a heck of an accomplishment and you end up with a smile in your face eventhough you lost, now imagine when you start winning!

Excellent analysis. I am still far from advancing to 4.0 but I have hit with several 4.5 players who didn't exactly take it easy on me. You are spot on with your comments.

For me, getting any farther will require coaching. I played for a year in high school and then didn't play again until this year and I am 40. I credit hitting with friends that are 4+ for forcing me to be a 3.5 with no instruction or lessons ever. I have no choice but to adapt and fitness/athleticism is my ally.

[cknobman]

To get more singles in play tournaments.

It will be better for your game anyways as you will see a wider variety of game styles and most likely you see better competition at some point.

[leech]

Originally Posted by cknobman

To get more singles in play tournaments.

It will be better for your game anyways as you will see a wider variety of game styles and most likely you see better competition at some point.

Will do, although it is tough to set aside an entire weekend to tennis while dealing with other aspects of my life. I am playing a tournament this weekend (first match tonight). I wanted to sign up for both 3.5 and 4.0, but this tournament does not allow participants to play in more than one event.

And I played my 26th singles ladder match last night; definitely see a wide variety of styles there. The style that I have trouble against most is one where the opponent blasts forehand winner after forehand winner down the line!

[leech]

Originally Posted by jmverdugo

Personally I am a very competitive player, I play to win and while tennis is about having fun I certainly have a lot of more fun wining than losing, however, there is a point when winning 60 60 is not fun anymore and losing in 3 sets to really good players becomes a heck of an accomplishment and you end up with a smile in your face eventhough you lost, now imagine when you start winning!

Thanks for offering your analysis.

I'm like you in that I enjoy winning immensely more than losing, but always like to have a competitive match. I've been fortunate to be in a ladder where there are easily a dozen guys that are in my range of skill/fitness where we can and have gone three sets. I'm not discouraged if I play well and lose, but my recent doubts came to the forefront after not playing very well in my 7.5 combo matches versus opponents I likely will face in the 4.0 league next season.

[emilyhex]

I think you should man up and play 4.0 regardless if you get bumped. Find a team where they are short on singles players, which seems to be in abundance where I live. If you get put on doubles, then take your shots and learn from your mistakes. It's just tennis, it's not like you are performing irreversible brain surgery on someone. And worse case scenario, you get beat and bumped back down to where you are obviously more comfortable. Win-win. Go get 'em tiger.

[NTRPolice]

"Skill" level between entry level and top tier players of an NTRP range differ drastically. Also, many people are "type casted" into these roles because people (on this forum especially) seem to have each NTRP level laid out in their minds.

I have seen 4.0's with 100+ mph serves, but I have also seen 4.5's with solid 80 mph serves, with high spin. I have seen 3.0's with 70 mph forehands, but no backhands, or volleys. I have seen solid 4.5 "Continental" all around players that will almost never make an error. I have seen 4.5 players who played college a few years back...

Really, NTRP is just a rating system and does not define the player at all. The best thing about playing up a level is that you're challenging yourself to get better. You also have to realize that at some point you will plateau and you will be low to mid range (because thats NTRP's design) and you will have to accept that level, or sandbag down.

Most players will try to move down. Great players will try to move up. Dont sell yourself short, or rely on NTRP to define you.

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx

I won't kid you: The bump to 4.0 from 3.5 stinks.

I have been bumped twice but in each case I felt the same challenges. Dealing with increased pace and consistency.

The way I see it ... your choices are (1) to refine your game and get better strokes. OR you could (2) practice the snot out of your poor strokes until you can make them work for you at the next level.

I think both can work for you as you move to the next level higher ... refining your strokes probably gives you more upside but simply adjusting to increased pace will help considerably.

Clearly 3.5 does not give you enough challenge so you should embrace some 4.0 action.

[leech]

Originally Posted by dizzlmcwizzl

Clearly 3.5 does not give you enough challenge so you should embrace some 4.0 action.

I should have put this in my original post, but in my singles ladder, I've played 26 matches overall and am 6-6 vs. opponents with an NTRP rating of 3.5. I seemed to have been matched up against inferior opponents during my USTA league season and gotten some fortunate breaks for me to have gone 8-0 in league play, but it's not quite so clear that 3.5 does not challenge me enough.

[NTRPolice]

Originally Posted by leech

I should have put this in my original post, but in my singles ladder, I've played 26 matches overall and am 6-6 vs. opponents with an NTRP rating of 3.5. I seemed to have been matched up against inferior opponents during my USTA league season and gotten some fortunate breaks for me to have gone 8-0 in league play, but it's not quite so clear that 3.5 does not challenge me enough.

Be careful with unsanctioned leagues if thats what youre talking about. It's quite common to see a "Jeckyl and Hyde" thing going on when you see the same person playing in two different leagues, one being sanctioned and one not.

When NTRP is on the line people tend to be dramatically worse than when its not.

Two weeks ago I played against a 4.0 girl who was obviously way overrated. I was talking with my partner about her later and she says she remembers playing that lady in 4.0/8.0 and that she thinks her 4.0 rating is because people dump to her, lol. Honestly, I would say that lady was a mid 3.0 at best, but somehow overtime ended up a 4.0 "C".

[mib]

Originally Posted by leech

This may be a premature post, but I suspect that (A) I'll be bumped up from 3.5 to 4.0 next season and (B) I'll have difficulty winning any matches or even being competitive at that level.

I'm new to organized tennis and started playing USTA leagues this year. I have horrible form but am able to get to a lot of balls. I prefer playing singles, and played exclusively singles for my adult league team. Although most of the games were competitive, I finished the season undefeated. I didn't play any doubles matches or make any attempt to make my match scores artificially closer, so I assume I'll be bumped up.

My problem is that I don't think I'll be invited to play singles at 4.0 (rightfully so, as I'd be among the worst players at that level) and I am horrible at doubles. Primarily because I'm so used to having the whole court to work with playing singles, it's difficult for me to return serves where they need to go (avoiding the net player). And the pace/placement of 4.0 servers are much harder for me to deal with. I've gotten a taste of it playing in the 7.5 combo league now, and I've not done well at all. In contrast, I'm breezing through the 6.5 combo league because no one that I've played hits with much pace.

So I'm not looking forward to the next USTA season. I figure I'll have to take my lumps playing doubles in the 4.0 league (I feel sorry for the team that picks me up) and either get better as the season progresses, or get bumped down. I don't know how likely it is for someone to get bumped down.

Did you feel overwhelmed by the competition after getting bumped up? How long did it take you to adjust and feel competitive? I feel like I don't belong at 4.0, but realize that I'm too good a match player for 3.5 (my strokes are not up to par for a typical 3.5 player; a teammate gave me a backhanded compliment by saying I play a lot better than I look!).

I don't think you need to worry. Undefeated record at 3.5 translates to a better than average at 4.0.

[Taxvictim]

Hey, start your own 4.0 team and put yourself in singles #2. Done and done.

[backttennis]

I just played my first season USTA in the summer and received my early start rating.

If I do not join a fall/winter USTA team or play again before year-end ratings come out, is my early start rating going to definitely be my year-end rating, or could it be adjusted up or down due to other factors even if I do not play again before year end?

Our summer team did not do that well or go to districts. Also, another self-rated player who I beat (her first match) now has a dynamic rating which could possibly affect the year end calculations, I would think.

It's not a huge concern, I'm just curious because I'm still trying to decide if I want to play USTA in the winter.